Cycling R.I.P 1995-2010

[burning]

So, Wiggins is clean

Yay for marginal gains I suppose

 

[The Hitch]

Take a look at the 2010 Sky squad and tell me how many climbers you find.

Take a look at 2012 Sky and tell me how many climbers you find

Or at least, how many were climbers before they joined sky.

 

[The Hitch]

Did he begin the 2011 Vuelta as team leader?

He was 3rd in the Tour of Burgos, which is the Vuelta version of the Dauphine, so yes he was very much a favorite going into the race.

 

[Netserk]

He was 3rd in the Tour of Burgos, which is the Vuelta version of the Dauphine, so yes he was very much a favorite going into the race.

It's not exactly because Moreno and Henao was the favourite for the Vuelta last year.

 

[Zweindorf]

Sastre clean ? Wiggins clean ? Evans clean ? Lemond clean ? Van Impe Clean ? Indurain clean ?

The reality is, no one has ever won a three week grand tour without, lets call them stimulants of some sort or another in the entire history of cycling. Plenty of doping of course occurring in other races also. Its also amusing how people assume that the above mentioned cyclists didn't dope. Especially Lemond and Sastre. Of course they did. They all did. A high percentage still do. It is biologically, physically and psychologically impossible to win a three week grand tour at the average speeds these guys (past and current) travel at without resorting to performance enhancing drugs, that are being used both for recuperation (survival) and a performance enhancing benefit. These facts are well known within cycling's inner circle. It is impossible for anyone who has not taken part in a three week grand tour to conceptualize the actual reality of the massive physical and psychological suffering that is placed upon the human mind and body. But if you do, then and only then, will you realize the truth which is the myth of the CLEAN athlete winning a race of this nature.

 

[The Hitch]

It's not exactly because Moreno and Henao was the favourite for the Vuelta last year.

Sorry, not quite sure what your point is. Could you rephrase that?

 

[Hugh Januss]

Sastre clean ? Wiggins clean ? Evans clean ? Lemond clean ? Van Impe Clean ? Indurain clean ?

The reality is, no one has ever won a three week grand tour without, lets call them stimulants of some sort or another in the entire history of cycling. Plenty of doping of course occurring in other races also. Its also amusing how people assume that the above mentioned cyclists didn't dope. Especially Lemond and Sastre. Of course they did. They all did. A high percentage still do. It is biologically, physically and psychologically impossible to win a three week grand tour at the average speeds these guys (past and current) travel at without resorting to performance enhancing drugs, that are being used both for recuperation (survival) and a performance enhancing benefit. These facts are well known within cycling's inner circle. It is impossible for anyone who has not taken part in a three week grand tour to conceptualize the actual reality of the massive physical and psychological suffering that is placed upon the human mind and body. But if you do, then and only then, will you realize the truth which is the myth of the CLEAN athlete winning a race of this nature.

http://www.characterink.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Troll_940px.jpg

 

[blackcat]

How is this relevant? Life isn't necessarily fair. Wiggins got the contracts, did what he did in the 2009 Tour and the rest is history.

it is relevant merely as a counterweight to all the sky chamois sniffers who contend Wigans always had the talent and just rode the boards and his power to weight numbers were superior to anyone on the road even tho he never could ride when the road tilted up

 

[dolophonic]

To the original poster... no sorry. It mat be dead to you but there were some great cycling races.. to follow your logic all cycling would / should be buried.
What makes it ok now for that matter ?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Geox-TMC
61 Juan Jose Cobo Acebo (Spa)
62 David Blanco Rodriguez (Spa)
63 David De La Fuente Rasilla (Spa)
64 Fabio Andres Duarte Arevalo (Col)
65 Denis Menchov (Rus)
66 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa)
67 Mauricio Alberto Ardila Cano (Col)
68 Matthias Brändle (Aut)
69 Dmitry Kozontchouk (Rus)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/vuelta-a-espana-2011/start-list

My understanding is he started the race as domestique for Menchov. That said of course Froome started the race as domestique too, so there is little to draw from that.

 

[Ferminal]

If he was helping Menchov why didn't he wait for him when he got caught out on a random hill in the first week?

 

[JimmyFingers]

The 30-year-old Cobo began the race with the job of riding in support of former champion Denis Menchov and Tour de France winner Carlos Sastre and could not hide his joy at the finish line.

“I thought I’d be working for Denis and Carlos throughout the Vuelta, and I’ve ended up winning,” said Cobo.

“It’s incredible, I would never have entertained such thoughts before the start of the race.”

Its fair to say he didn't go into the race as team leader, by his own words.

 

[Ferminal]

I guess he can't have been doping if he didn't believe he was capable of contending.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I haven't said he raced dirty or clean, just that his form fluctuates

 

[Ferminal]

That is rather obvious isn't it?

 

[JimmyFingers]

You'd think so, but people seem to take exception to it

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

it is relevant merely as a counterweight to all the sky chamois sniffers who contend Wigans always had the talent and just rode the boards and his power to weight numbers were superior to anyone on the road even tho he never could ride when the road tilted up

So why the reference to nationality and the comparison to Bartko?

The point about Wiggins' observed talent on the road during his track days can (and should) be made without any reference to nationality or comparison to Bartko.

Given that other than for a couple of weeks he was employed by non-British teams until 2010, it's hard to see how being Britsh was a benefit to him. He was presumably employed to feature highly in TTs and then at HTC to ride in Cav's lead out train. If he'd not been worth his salary he'd have presumably got the chop.

 

[Netserk]

Sorry, not quite sure what your point is. Could you rephrase that?

Vuelta a Burgos 2012 final GC:

Not exactly any favourites for the Vuelta.

 

[The Hitch]

My understanding is he started the race as domestique for Menchov. That said of course Froome started the race as domestique too, so there is little to draw from that.

No froome went into the vuelta as bottle carrier getting a gt ride out for his team before they part ways.

Cobo went in as the on form guy on his team and an established talent., who was allowed to ride his own race and moreover given the number 1.

Your saying his form fluctuates but his results leading up to the vuelta clearly show that he was in the best form he had in years.and the fact that he said he thought he might work for old man menchov doesn't change that.

 

[The Hitch]

Vuelta a Burgos 2012 final GC:

Not exactly any favourites for the Vuelta.

Is it that hard to make your point?

Im guessing what you are trying to say is that because of this result burgos is not like the dauphine, but i can't be sure since you haven't made that clear.

If that is what you are trying to say, well brajkovic won dauphine once. Lots of non contenders have won Suisse and Trentino. Burgos doesn't always have same quality field as dauphine but that's cos vuelta has worse fields than the tout.

 

[Netserk]

Is it that hard to make your point?

Im guessing what you are trying to say is that because of this result burgos is not like the dauphine, but i can't be sure since you haven't made that clear.

If that is what you are trying to say, well brajkovic won dauphine once. Lots of non contenders have won Suisse and Trentino. Burgos doesn't always have same quality field as dauphine but that's cos vuelta has worse fields than the tout.

When was the last time that none of the favourites placed top-20 in Dauphine?

 

[Netserk]

I don't challenge that Burgos is a warm-up race for the Vuelta (although it's more like Trentino than Dauphine), it's more the fact that being 3rd in Burgos make you a favourite for the Vuelta.

He was 3rd in the Tour of Burgos, which is the Vuelta version of the Dauphine, so yes he was very much a favorite going into the race.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

When was the last time that none of the favourites placed top-20 in Dauphine?

2012 by example. 2011 also. 2010 also. 2007 also.

Point?

 

[deValtos]

There's a lot more years to clear out than this ... the early 1990's were a joke, the 1988 tour was just as bad as the 1998 Festina affair, and well pretty much every year since 1903 should do.

 

[JimmyFingers]

No froome went into the vuelta as bottle carrier getting a gt ride out for his team before they part ways.

Cobo went in as the on form guy on his team and an established talent., who was allowed to ride his own race and moreover given the number 1.

Your saying his form fluctuates but his results leading up to the vuelta clearly show that he was in the best form he had in years.and the fact that he said he thought he might work for old man menchov doesn't change that.

Well that's a very forceful assertion, but the facts don't really bare it out, and it does count for something the rider himself said he didn't go into the race as team leader. It was the only race he won in 2011: a couple of third places earlier in the year doesn't scream to me GT contender, especially ahead of two GT winners. But I do acknowledge your greater knowledge of the sport.

But I'm not sure why we're getting bogged down in this. Someone else mentioned Cobo and I said his form fluctuates, before the Vuelta 2011 and certainly since.