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Daniel Martinez is the new Daniel Martin with additional letters

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Anderis

May 10, 2013
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Bolder said:
I was a little surprised that EF didn't try to make him their marquee GT rider to replace Uran but I think (again, maybe wrong) that his move to Ineos came at a time when EF had very little money.
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EF couldn't keep all of their best riders because pandemics hit the main sponsor really hard for obvious reasons.

Still, I think someone wrote on the forum that Vaughters had a choice to keep either Carthy or Martinez and with hindsight, I think Martinez was probably a better choice, But that was in 2020, when Carthy was on the Vuelta podium, so I guess it wasn't that obvious back then.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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Bolder said:
If only De Plus and Sosa had developed the way Ineos thought they would,... But a fair point.
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Only a blind man didn't see Sosa would never turn into that rider. De Plus already had that level when he left Jumbo, he has been going from injury to illness and back again. They have somebody they could use for that role, but they rather send him to the Giro as co-leader.
 
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Mayomaniac

Mayomaniac

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Only a blind man didn't see Sosa would never turn into that rider. De Plus already had that level when he left Jumbo, he has been going from injury to illness and back again. They have somebody they could use for that role, but they rather send him to the Giro as co-leader.
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I guess with Sosa it's mainly what do you do with him? Because riding for gc in stage races like Burgos and a potential Kuss-style climbing domestique who takes it easy on all the other stages is a role that he can fit.
Back to Dani Martinez, he did kinda waste 2 years riding for Scinto. Back in 2015 he was already finishing 8th on gc in the Tour of Utah and 5th in a multi-mountain stage of the Tour de l'Avenir at the age of 19.
 
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Bolder

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Only a blind man didn't see Sosa would never turn into that rider. De Plus already had that level when he left Jumbo, he has been going from injury to illness and back again. They have somebody they could use for that role, but they rather send him to the Giro as co-leader.
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The point is that Ineos at one time thought Sosa would be the next big thing. Blind? It's as much art as science... https://www.ineosgrenadiers.com/riders/ivan-sosa
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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tobydawq said:
He is.

I don't think it was that evident at the time Ineos stole him from Trek, though. That seems a little too hindsight-ly to me.
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Maybe, but it's always a gamble and he hadn't shown anything that would indicate he was Bernal or even Kuss level. If they didn't know it at the time, it sure shouldn't have taken them long to figure that out and look for an alternative. It's not like they lack motivation/firepower to take action if they felt the need to look for a replacement.
 
Mayomaniac

Mayomaniac

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Maybe, but it's always a gamble and he hadn't shown anything that would indicate he was Bernal or even Kuss level. If they didn't know it at the time, it sure shouldn't have taken them long to figure that out and look for an alternative. It's not like they lack motivation/firepower to take action if they felt the need to look for a replacement.
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He had already won Burgos while riding for Androni, dropping MAL on one MTF and finishing with him on the other won (the same MAL who finished on 2 gt podiums that season). More impressive than anything Kuss had shown pre-2020.
2018 Sosa looked like he was going to be a world class climber. He made Purito look like a top tter, but looked like a worldbeater on monoclimb stages, against legit competition.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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Mayomaniac said:
He had already won Burgos while riding for Androni, dropping MAL on one MTF and finishing with him on the other won (the same MAL who finished on 2 gt podiums that season). More impressive than anything Kuss had shown pre-2020.
2018 Sosa looked like he was going to be a world class climber. He made Purito look like a top tter, but looked like a worldbeater on monoclimb stages, against legit competition.
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My comment about Kuss was not about the level Kuss had back in 2018, but what he eventually showed down the line. And i'm not a Kuss fan, and as you will be able to read in the Kuss topic, i had the same doubts about him (and my doubts weren't completely unfounded either, since Kuss is also a very limited rider, just not as limited as Sosa).

Yes, Sosa had shown he was worldclass in short unipuerto stages, that were not raced hard, it doesn't speak about the volume he is able to handle. In fact, him TT'ing like an old man on a tricycle might have been a better benchmark.
 
tobydawq

tobydawq

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
My comment about Kuss was not about the level Kuss had back in 2018, but what he eventually showed down the line. And i'm not a Kuss fan, and as you will be able to read in the Kuss topic, i had the same doubts about him (and my doubts weren't completely unfounded either, since Kuss is also a very limited rider, just not as limited as Sosa).

Yes, Sosa had shown he was worldclass in short unipuerto stages, that were not raced hard, it doesn't speak about the volume he is able to handle. In fact, him TT'ing like an old man on a tricycle might have been a better benchmark.
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Sure, but it was hard to envision that he wouldn't benefit just the slightest in that department from changing teams from Androni to Ineos.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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tobydawq said:
Sure, but it was hard to envision that he wouldn't benefit just the slightest in that department from changing teams from Androni to Ineos.
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One would assume improvements to be made, but i think history has also shown it is often easier to turn a big engine guy into a good climbing domestique, than it is to expect a skinny little climber to develop a big engine. The discussion was about Martinez not having a climbing domestique if he is to lead the TDF. I think Sosa not developing that way is a lame excuse considering it's now been 4 years since they signed him and he's already gone for over a year.
 
Lequack

Lequack

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New bike

GBN66bRW0AARkku
 
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