Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

[B_Ugli]

Stumbled across this on BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/38573615

The interviewer begins to get pretty irritated by DB's continuing to avoid giving a straight answer to straight questions.

And therein lies the problem, the more DB gives politician/smart **** style answers the more he alienates the public.

The fact that he dismisses the whole saga as "regrettable" is astonishing :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why do you fail to understand that Brailsford is hamstrung in discussing anything about a current Anti-Doping investigation by UKAD - Process must be followed - Brailsford can talk as much as he likes after UKAD finish their investigation.

Brailsford is hamstrung by his teams doping of riders. Nothing more.

You go on and on about doping and corruption in sport, yet fail to grasp the basic concept enshrined in WADA's statutes and carried out by NADO's - That possible anti-doping breaches by athletes should be kept as confidential as possible - I actually believe the head of UKAD should be sacked for making inappropriate public comments about the ongoing investigation into the mystery package.

you go on and on about the institutions that are meant to police doping.....you seem to fail to grasp the basic concept that that system doesn't work, arguably purposefully so...these organisations don't catch dopers these days...its the press, the police and hopefully soon to be MPs....

He's right.

Process must be followed/Brailsford can talk as much as he likes after UKAD finish their investigation/possible anti-doping breaches by athletes should be kept as confidential as possible

Lets take this apart.......

He has already admitted it was Flumicil before the CMS committee (who were given the permission by UKAD to take questioning wherever they wanted) so its now publicly available information/knowledge. The allegations are no longer private and confidential and haven't been since the Fancy Bears leak and the Daily Mail allegations came to light.

The only piece of information that is private is Wiggins medical records (the back up evidence).

The simple way of putting an end to this is to ask permission of Wiggins & his doctor to provide documentary evidence to prove that it was flumacil (no need to release a complete set of medical records and a simple signed notice of authority between patient and doctor for a specific piece of information). UKAD claim not to have been provided with this information thus far (cant see why they would lie about that).

Brailsford is not hamstrung, he is an arrogant individual who considers the public stupid and thinks if he can keep talking, avoiding questions and waving his arms and hands around in bizarre gestures it will somehow deflect from the truth. Cookes evidence was a damning indictment of an invividual who portrays the sofa style management of Tony Blair whilst at the same time conveys an all together different persona behind closed doors and the institutions he is at the top of.

Spin/BS/Spin/BS/Management speak - and everyone including the BBC can see through it.

 

[red_flanders]

He has already admitted it was Flumicil before the CMS committee (who were given the permission by UKAD to take questioning wherever they wanted) so its now publicly available information/knowledge.

I think the right word is "invented".

 

[yaco]

Stumbled across this on BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/38573615

The interviewer begins to get pretty irritated by DB's continuing to avoid giving a straight answer to straight questions.

And therein lies the problem, the more DB gives politician/smart **** style answers the more he alienates the public.

The fact that he dismisses the whole saga as "regrettable" is astonishing :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why do you fail to understand that Brailsford is hamstrung in discussing anything about a current Anti-Doping investigation by UKAD - Process must be followed - Brailsford can talk as much as he likes after UKAD finish their investigation.

Brailsford is hamstrung by his teams doping of riders. Nothing more.

You go on and on about doping and corruption in sport, yet fail to grasp the basic concept enshrined in WADA's statutes and carried out by NADO's - That possible anti-doping breaches by athletes should be kept as confidential as possible - I actually believe the head of UKAD should be sacked for making inappropriate public comments about the ongoing investigation into the mystery package.

you go on and on about the institutions that are meant to police doping.....you seem to fail to grasp the basic concept that that system doesn't work, arguably purposefully so...these organisations don't catch dopers these days...its the press, the police and hopefully soon to be MPs....

You must be taking the piss - I've posted ad-infitum about the breakdown of Anti-Doping - Still doesn't alter the fact that investigations should not be played out in public.

 

[yaco]

KB - Google the names Nathan Bock and Dean Robinson in Australia - Ex Australian Rules football player and support person.

 

[yaco]

Lots of huffing and puffing on The Clinic demanding justice, etc, etc,etc - But fail to realise there must be a level of confidentiality in the investigation process to achieve justice - We don't need the head of UKAD to give a running commentary of their investigation.

 

[Random Direction]

UKAD is not independent from BC which is not independent from UCI. It is an old boys club with unspoken agreements from the Sirs to protect each other. Emma and others have proven that.

Full stop - yaso, nice try to say that due process should be followed, however somehow I think that you are fully aware that there isn't one. Your defense is admirable, but not even close to be transparent. Vested interest yourself?

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

KB - Google the names Nathan Bock and Dean Robinson in Australia - Ex Australian Rules football player and support person.

Thanks, will have a look.

 

[Mr.38%]

Speaking of PR, the end is near.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-4157744/British-Cycling-chiefs-hire-spin-doctor-crisis-depeens.html

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Speaking of PR, the end is near.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-4157744/British-Cycling-chiefs-hire-spin-doctor-crisis-depeens.html

This to me is a sign of guilt.

All the talk of transparency and doing the right thing gone forever.

UKPostal is official. :lol:

 

[sniper]

Hiring a spin doctor because the report is gonna crush them. Good times.

 

[meat puppet]

No no no, sky only hired the spin dr to ensure the public gets this exactly right and exactly truthfully. They care.

 

[thehog]

Re:

No no no, sky only hired the spin dr to ensure the public gets this exactly right and exactly truthfully. They care.

Transparency requires spin

 

[Ironhead Slim]

Re:

Speaking of PR, the end is near.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-4157744/British-Cycling-chiefs-hire-spin-doctor-crisis-depeens.html

Don't look, yaco, you will go apoplectic with all the leaked reports spilling all over the place!

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/wales/38757408
Olympic gold medallist Elinor Barker says there is "still a lot of sexism" within the sport of cycling, but it is not "blatantly obvious".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sp...g-chiefs-hire-spin-doctor-crisis-depeens.html
"While the report is not due to be published until next month, copies have been circulated ..."
Time to get a "response" together ... thanks UK Sport!

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

Speaking of PR, the end is near.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-4157744/British-Cycling-chiefs-hire-spin-doctor-crisis-depeens.html

This to me is a sign of guilt.

All the talk of transparency and doing the right thing gone forever.

UKPostal is official. :lol:

Going further down the rabbit hole. I think they are beyond PR - it will only cause them more damage. Root and branch clear out / new broom is the only way to go now. Brailsford tarnished beyond measure and much of cycling organisations / management with him. Whatever UKAD find they won't be believed because it's all been 'behind closed doors'.

As for investigations being confidential, the Parliamentary Committee seem to be doing a good job of due process whilst filming everything and releasing written statements to the world.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Speaking of PR, the end is near.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-4157744/British-Cycling-chiefs-hire-spin-doctor-crisis-depeens.html

This to me is a sign of guilt.

All the talk of transparency and doing the right thing gone forever.

UKPostal is official. :lol:

Going further down the rabbit hole. I think they are beyond PR - it will only cause them more damage. Root and branch clear out / new broom is the only way to go now. Brailsford tarnished beyond measure and much of cycling organisations / management with him. Whatever UKAD find they won't be believed because it's all been 'behind closed doors'.

As for investigations being confidential, the Parliamentary Committee seem to be doing a good job of due process whilst filming everything and releasing written statements to the world.

It's becoming worse by the day - Parliamentary Committees like Parliamentary sittings have every word transcribed on the public record - In many countries you can watch live proceedings of committees and sittings - Parliament is completely different to a Anti-Doping Investigation.

 

[B_Ugli]

Re: Re:

Speaking of PR, the end is near.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-4157744/British-Cycling-chiefs-hire-spin-doctor-crisis-depeens.html

This to me is a sign of guilt.

All the talk of transparency and doing the right thing gone forever.

UKPostal is official. :lol:

Going further down the rabbit hole. I think they are beyond PR - it will only cause them more damage. Root and branch clear out / new broom is the only way to go now. Brailsford tarnished beyond measure and much of cycling organisations / management with him. Whatever UKAD find they won't be believed because it's all been 'behind closed doors'.

As for investigations being confidential, the Parliamentary Committee seem to be doing a good job of due process whilst filming everything and releasing written statements to the world.

Don't disagree but root and branch clear out to be replaced by whom though?

Nicole Cookes tracing of the story back as far Linda McCartney Team, Simon Lillingstone et all scratches the surface. The names she mentions come as no surprise to anyone familiar with the UK domestic scene in the 1990's before Manchester. Leicester Track, Impsport, Team Haverhill, Neilson Tivoli, North Wirral Velo, and Team Brite, remember them?

What is accurate is the way she describes the organisation/funding. I remember "UK Pro's" (you didn't have elites in those days) and turning up to races without licenses driving old bangers to scrape £500-1000 in prize money. They wandered around the car parks asking people for allen keys and track pumps. Many of them I found to be arrogant "big heads" who were big fish in a small pond and nobodies when it came to world cycling per se. My understanding was that Team Brite actually paid some Elites a salary and when the WCPP took off the UK scene morphed from a bunch of self funded Pro/Am's to a fully funded regime from which guys could make a living.

Doping aside and without demonising all at British Cycling this is the root of the problem.

Originally you had a pretty fringe, disorganised, amateur cycling scene in the UK that has become extremely successful - you cant deny that. But, and this is a big but........

The foundations of that success are based around a core of guys who if they weren't riding a bike they would probably be mowing lawns, labouring on a building site or cleaning toilets. That's no disrespect people to people who do that as a living but galvanising a professionally run organisation with a strong ethical structure and transparency is not what these guys do. They are chancers, blaggers and Del Boys with big heads who have had smoke blown up their arses in the UK for years as being great 'UK' cyclists. There faces were in Cycling Weekly week in week out. Outside of cycling they would be nothing, nada, someone taking your bins away.

Its like handing over the controls to a large company handling millions of pounds to someone on benefits. It might just work but the way in which it is made to "work" will be pretty reckless and to cover it up you will need a spin on it.....cue marginal gains attention to detail yada yada yada.

Like I say I wouldn't tarnish all at BC with this brush as I know a lot of people at grass roots do an amazing job, However many of these losers in life/"winners" in cycling quite literally must feel like they have won the Lottery!!

 

[sniper]

Re:

..

For London 2012 the 2011 Trial Event was for men only, despite the current gold medallist in the road race and silver medallist in the time trial being female, we were again ignored. Staff at BC will point out that this was not their decision, but that of the London Games organisers. The manager of the Cycling events at London 2012 was an ex BC employee and worked in complete co-operation with the staff at BC. If they had wanted to put on a trial event for women they could have done so. That manager is ex professional cyclist Simon Lillistone who has his own “long journey with a bag, the contents of which and purpose of the journey were a complete mystery to him”. In his case he was transporting a “bag” for Lance Armstrong. A decade later it was confirmed the bag contained PEDs, but at the time the story of the “bag for Lance” came out, Simon Lillistone found he could not support the claims of his partner Emma O’Reilly, who stated that they were PEDs for Armstrong’s doping program to win the Tour de France.

I have heard that Wiggins was going to give Lillistone a gig at his team.
Exactly how the Omerta works.

Keith Lambert at age 65 brought back to BC by Sutton.
Palfreeman, having been sacked previously, then spilling beans to the CIRC, then being rehired by Sky.
And many more cases in point.

Really nobody should wonder why UKAD stalled the investigation into Linda Mac.

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

..

For London 2012 the 2011 Trial Event was for men only, despite the current gold medallist in the road race and silver medallist in the time trial being female, we were again ignored. Staff at BC will point out that this was not their decision, but that of the London Games organisers. The manager of the Cycling events at London 2012 was an ex BC employee and worked in complete co-operation with the staff at BC. If they had wanted to put on a trial event for women they could have done so. That manager is ex professional cyclist Simon Lillistone who has his own “long journey with a bag, the contents of which and purpose of the journey were a complete mystery to him”. In his case he was transporting a “bag” for Lance Armstrong. A decade later it was confirmed the bag contained PEDs, but at the time the story of the “bag for Lance” came out, Simon Lillistone found he could not support the claims of his partner Emma O’Reilly, who stated that they were PEDs for Armstrong’s doping program to win the Tour de France.

I have heard that Wiggins was going to give Lillistone a gig at his team.
Exactly how the Omerta works.

Keith Lambert at age 65 brought back to BC by Sutton.
Palfreeman, having been sacked previously, then spilling beans to the CIRC, then being rehired by Sky.
And many more cases in point.

Really nobody should wonder why UKAD stalled the investigation into Linda Mac.

I think the Statute of Limitations and budget cuts were a big reason as well, team folded in 2001 which falls outside that window. Plus Clarke's fraud conviction destroys any credibility he had. Any charges would of been thrown out.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

..

For London 2012 the 2011 Trial Event was for men only, despite the current gold medallist in the road race and silver medallist in the time trial being female, we were again ignored. Staff at BC will point out that this was not their decision, but that of the London Games organisers. The manager of the Cycling events at London 2012 was an ex BC employee and worked in complete co-operation with the staff at BC. If they had wanted to put on a trial event for women they could have done so. That manager is ex professional cyclist Simon Lillistone who has his own “long journey with a bag, the contents of which and purpose of the journey were a complete mystery to him”. In his case he was transporting a “bag” for Lance Armstrong. A decade later it was confirmed the bag contained PEDs, but at the time the story of the “bag for Lance” came out, Simon Lillistone found he could not support the claims of his partner Emma O’Reilly, who stated that they were PEDs for Armstrong’s doping program to win the Tour de France.

I have heard that Wiggins was going to give Lillistone a gig at his team.
Exactly how the Omerta works.

Keith Lambert at age 65 brought back to BC by Sutton.
Palfreeman, having been sacked previously, then spilling beans to the CIRC, then being rehired by Sky.
And many more cases in point.

Really nobody should wonder why UKAD stalled the investigation into Linda Mac.

I think the Statute of Limitations and budget cuts were a big reason as well, team folded in 2001 which falls outside that window. Plus Clarke's fraud conviction destroys any credibility he had. Any charges would of been thrown out.

I think the will to find and punish their own is not there. Pretty simple.

 

[Jacques (7 ch)]

Re:

Hiring a spin doctor because the report is gonna crush them. Good times.

Walsh been sacked then?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Hiring a spin doctor because the report is gonna crush them. Good times.

Walsh been sacked then?

:lol:

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
Don't disagree but root and branch clear out to be replaced by whom though?

Nicole Cookes tracing of the story back as far Linda McCartney Team, Simon Lillingstone et all scratches the surface. The names she mentions come as no surprise to anyone familiar with the UK domestic scene in the 1990's before Manchester. Leicester Track, Impsport, Team Haverhill, Neilson Tivoli, North Wirral Velo, and Team Brite, remember them?

What is accurate is the way she describes the organisation/funding. I remember "UK Pro's" (you didn't have elites in those days) and turning up to races without licenses driving old bangers to scrape £500-1000 in prize money. They wandered around the car parks asking people for allen keys and track pumps. Many of them I found to be arrogant "big heads" who were big fish in a small pond and nobodies when it came to world cycling per se. My understanding was that Team Brite actually paid some Elites a salary and when the WCPP took off the UK scene morphed from a bunch of self funded Pro/Am's to a fully funded regime from which guys could make a living.

Doping aside and without demonising all at British Cycling this is the root of the problem.

Originally you had a pretty fringe, disorganised, amateur cycling scene in the UK that has become extremely successful - you cant deny that. But, and this is a big but........

The foundations of that success are based around a core of guys who if they weren't riding a bike they would probably be mowing lawns, labouring on a building site or cleaning toilets. That's no disrespect people to people who do that as a living but galvanising a professionally run organisation with a strong ethical structure and transparency is not what these guys do. They are chancers, blaggers and Del Boys with big heads who have had smoke blown up their arses in the UK for years as being great 'UK' cyclists. There faces were in Cycling Weekly week in week out. Outside of cycling they would be nothing, nada, someone taking your bins away.

Its like handing over the controls to a large company handling millions of pounds to someone on benefits. It might just work but the way in which it is made to "work" will be pretty reckless and to cover it up you will need a spin on it.....cue marginal gains attention to detail yada yada yada.

Like I say I wouldn't tarnish all at BC with this brush as I know a lot of people at grass roots do an amazing job, However many of these losers in life/"winners" in cycling quite literally must feel like they have won the Lottery!!

good post, this sounds like a plausible take on things.

 

[Craigee]

I agree. Good post by B Ugli.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Methinks B_Ugli forgot about the "flipping burgers" alternative route, but otherwise got everything else spot on.