Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

[Parker]

Re: Re:

So, are you and Parker going to stop drinking the Kool-Aid any time soon? Just because the Sky gang keep telling you they're ethical (or did they stop?) it doesn't mean they're telling you the truth

So I'm drinking 'Kool-Aid'* because I don't think Cardiff is an off-shore tax haven. I really, really wish it was, but it's not.

*PS Kool-Aid. You need to update your conspiracy theory tropes. That one is really dated. I think 'red pill/blue pill' is favoured now (although that's nearly 20 years old now)

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Cardiff: birthplace of G
New Target New focus
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/geraint-thomas-im-preparing-for-the-tour-de-france-as-if-im-the-leader/

 

[Robert5091]

Re:

Cardiff: birthplace of G
New Target New focus
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/geraint-thomas-im-preparing-for-the-tour-de-france-as-if-im-the-leader/

The Dawg might have Monanco, but Gee, might not have a spleen, but he has Cardiff ... I feel a "Men of Harlech" moment coming on.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

There's no possible way, from two directors liquidating a company from Minnesota and changing company address to a new premises 3 days ago, you can possibly know it's got anything to do with HMRC or otherwise. You know as little as we do and that he's liquidating his company. Anything else you've said is a guess like us, nobody's claiming to be correct, it's simple discussion. In a few days time he might have set-up a new company, announced retirement, getting married and buying a £5M house with the assets, nobody knows anything, even Daily Mail who didn't expand on it either.

But why would Brailsfraud choose to become an employee and lose a big chunk of his income to tax? Please don't tell me it's an ethical decision! The most likely answer is that he didn't choose, his hand was forced, by HMRC

If he's splitting up with his partner he can do that without changing his employment status. That theory is just a non-sequitur

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Re:

So, are you and Parker going to stop drinking the Kool-Aid any time soon? Just because the Sky gang keep telling you they're ethical (or did they stop?) it doesn't mean they're telling you the truth

So I'm drinking 'Kool-Aid'* because I don't think Cardiff is an off-shore tax haven. I really, really wish it was, but it's not.

*PS Kool-Aid. You need to update your conspiracy theory tropes. That one is really dated. I think 'red pill/blue pill' is favoured now (although that's nearly 20 years old now)

Cardiff is a red herring. Brailsfraud signed the forms closing the company down in Minnesota. From there in corporate terms it's just a short hop to an off-shore tax haven like the BVI

As for the Kool-Aid thing. This from the Wiki...

"In recent years it has evolved further to mean extreme dedication to a cause or purpose, so extreme that one would "Drink the Kool-Aid" and die for the cause"

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

Looks a pretty typical UK company to me if you are a consultant. Spouse is made secretary, then director which will have some benefits for them both of course, but all pretty typical. If I was going to guess it will be they are separating too. Not sure what the advantages are for Disney to put him on Tour Racing Ltd as a full-time employee rather than pay him as a consultant like Sky? Interestingly the company moved address just a couple of days ago, so I would imagine Brailsford will set another company up at that new address without his spouse as partner maybe?

That address is the for Menzies LLP an Insolvency practice - likely its them handling the liquidation.

Edit - its is them, its in the declaration.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

So, are you and Parker going to stop drinking the Kool-Aid any time soon? Just because the Sky gang keep telling you they're ethical (or did they stop?) it doesn't mean they're telling you the truth

So I'm drinking 'Kool-Aid'* because I don't think Cardiff is an off-shore tax haven. I really, really wish it was, but it's not.

*PS Kool-Aid. You need to update your conspiracy theory tropes. That one is really dated. I think 'red pill/blue pill' is favoured now (although that's nearly 20 years old now)

Cardiff is a red herring. Brailsfraud signed the forms closing the company down in Minnesota. From there in corporate terms it's just a short hop to an off-shore tax haven like the BVI

As for the Kool-Aid thing. This from the Wiki...

"In recent years it has evolved further to mean extreme dedication to a cause or purpose, so extreme that one would "Drink the Kool-Aid" and die for the cause"

There was also a declaration signed in Derby which you conveniently didnt mention. What conclusion can we draw from that? Nothing really.

Also, whether the company is offshore or not, if DB is resident in the UK for Tax purposes (which he likely is) then he is liable to UK income tax on any earnings he receives from any company anywhere in the world. An offshore company is only useful for paying lower Corporation Tax. The fact that the declaration shows that money is owed to HMRC shows that the company is not offshore.

 

[TheSpud]

And the company is wholly owned by Brailsford and Buckle, so no offshore holding companies, etc.

 

[spetsa]

What kind of business did he have set up in Minnesota?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

What's the spin on this?

Up to this point Brailsford has been paid as consultant to parent company not an employee of Team Sky
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5424283/Sir-Dave-Brailsford-closes-consultancy-business.html

HMRC had a major recent victory which is going to make it harder to argue you're not an employee. Google it up and read all about it.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Re:

What's the spin on this?

Up to this point Brailsford has been paid as consultant to parent company not an employee of Team Sky
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5424283/Sir-Dave-Brailsford-closes-consultancy-business.html

HMRC had a major recent victory which is going to make it harder to argue you're not an employee. Google it up and read all about it.

Occam's razor strikes again

As usual Kool Aid and the Gang are in denial

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

What's the spin on this?

Up to this point Brailsford has been paid as consultant to parent company not an employee of Team Sky
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5424283/Sir-Dave-Brailsford-closes-consultancy-business.html

HMRC had a major recent victory which is going to make it harder to argue you're not an employee. Google it up and read all about it.

Occam's razor strikes again

As usual Kool Aid and the Gang are in denial

Mind you don't dislocate a shoulder patting yourself on the back there, you don't exactly come out of this smelling of roses. Not least for this:

So suggesting this change is driven by Sky or their overlords doesn't stack up financially.

It stacks up perfectly if you bother to actually check the relevant tax law.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

What's the spin on this?

Up to this point Brailsford has been paid as consultant to parent company not an employee of Team Sky
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5424283/Sir-Dave-Brailsford-closes-consultancy-business.html

HMRC had a major recent victory which is going to make it harder to argue you're not an employee. Google it up and read all about it.

Correct - I'm amazed that he's been able to get away with being a 'consultant' for 8-9 years and not an employee.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

What kind of business did he have set up in Minnesota?

Who knows - Minnesota isn't a well known offshore tax haven (in fact it isn't a tax haven at all as far as I am aware). Now, if it was Delaware then the story could have some more legs.

 

[samhocking]

The HMRC crackdown is on employers using long-term self-employed worker to escape payroll etc. For Brailsford working self-employed under his Ltd company it doesn't really apply to him directly because he doesn't employ anyone. His Tax & NICs will already have been deducted accordingly.

Liquidating his company might well be because Tour Racing Ltd are being forced to change Brailsford's status from self employed to Employee and putting him on payroll, so he has no need for it anymore, but that has nothing to do with Brailsford liquidating his company. You can be a director of your own company and be employed by another, that's perfectly normal. i.e. whatever HMRC might be doing with Tour Racing Ltd has no effect on Brailsford Ltd unless he has employees, which he doesn't, simply has himself and a partner as directors.

In terms of liquidating from US, who knows. Obviously him and his partner is soon to have £5M to now invest somewhere or split if they are separating so might be related to this being done from a legal services company in US who's probably handling it all for them.

 

[fmk_RoI]

The HMRC crackdown is on employers using long-term self-employed worker to escape payroll etc. For Brailsford working self-employed under his Ltd company it doesn't really apply to him directly because he doesn't employ anyone. His Tax & NICs will already have been deducted accordingly.

Liquidating his company might well be because Tour Racing Ltd are being forced to change Brailsford's status from self employed to Employee and putting him on payroll, so he has no need for it anymore, but that has nothing to do with Brailsford liquidating his company. You can be a director of your own company and be employed by another, that's perfectly normal. i.e. whatever HMRC might be doing with Tour Racing Ltd has no effect on Brailsford Ltd unless he has employees, which he doesn't, simply has himself and a partner as directors.

In terms of liquidating from US, who knows. Obviously him and his partner is soon to have £5M to now invest somewhere or split if they are separating so might be related to this being done from a legal services company is US who's probably handling it all for them.

Please, come back when you actually understand the subject. Just about everything said above is verifiable BS.

 

[samhocking]

I am a director of my own company and employed by another. There's no conflict with my contract, it's normal.
HMRC is cracking down on companies using long-term self-employed workers and workers using it to their advantage, but generally its an employer focus (IR35, Uber, BBC etc)
Metro Legal Services is the legal services company in Minnesota him and his partner are using to declare solvency for the company to be wound up
Brailsford Ltd has £5M assets in cash in the bank.

I don't see any Bs there?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

I am a director of my own company and employed by another. There's no conflict with my contract, it's normal.
HMRC is cracking down on companies using long-term self-employed workers and workers using it to their advantage, but generally its an employer focus (IR35, Uber, BBC etc)
Metro Legal Services is the legal services company in Minnesota him and his partner are using to declare solvency for the company to be wound up
Brailsford Ltd has £5M assets in cash in the bank.

I don't see any Bs there?

And this makes you an expert in tax law ... oh boy. I once saw an episode of Casualty. I think I'll become a brain surgeon.

Try dealing with facts, not fatuous 'experience.'

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Re:

What's the spin on this?

Up to this point Brailsford has been paid as consultant to parent company not an employee of Team Sky
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5424283/Sir-Dave-Brailsford-closes-consultancy-business.html

HMRC had a major recent victory which is going to make it harder to argue you're not an employee. Google it up and read all about it.

Correct - I'm amazed that he's been able to get away with being a 'consultant' for 8-9 years and not an employee.

Brailsfraud and Sky love a grey area blag eh

Parallels with the Dawg's AAF are striking!

So unfair when you get pulled up on that stuff

And it's possible that HMRC have asked Brailsfraud to pay back-dated tax. That can be painful. Take That had to go back on the road. Did Kool Aid and the Gang boot up that Kickstarter yet?

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

I am a director of my own company and employed by another. There's no conflict with my contract, it's normal.
HMRC is cracking down on companies using long-term self-employed workers and workers using it to their advantage, but generally its an employer focus (IR35, Uber, BBC etc)
Metro Legal Services is the legal services company in Minnesota him and his partner are using to declare solvency for the company to be wound up
Brailsford Ltd has £5M assets in cash in the bank.

I don't see any Bs there?

And this makes you an expert in tax law ... oh boy. I once saw an episode of Casualty. I think I'll become a brain surgeon.

Try dealing with facts, not fatuous 'experience.'

I'm not claiming to be an expert, simply looking at his filing history. So what is BS? They are all facts simply copied from his files. I could have copied exact HMRC wording you can be a director and employee so don't have to liquidate on payroll employment, but given it's common place, hardly seemed worth justifying to be honest. I've been in this status for 6 years, so just giving insight it's pretty normal and Brtailsford doesn't have to liquidate that's all.

End of the day the shareholders funds Brailsford and his partner would receive if their business were to liquidate means they will soon have £5M to invest somewhere. That might be the next company, property, investments etc, who knows.

 

[TheSpud]

The HMRC crackdown is on employers using long-term self-employed worker to escape payroll etc. For Brailsford working self-employed under his Ltd company it doesn't really apply to him directly because he doesn't employ anyone. His Tax & NICs will already have been deducted accordingly.

Liquidating his company might well be because Tour Racing Ltd are being forced to change Brailsford's status from self employed to Employee and putting him on payroll, so he has no need for it anymore, but that has nothing to do with Brailsford liquidating his company. You can be a director of your own company and be employed by another, that's perfectly normal. i.e. whatever HMRC might be doing with Tour Racing Ltd has no effect on Brailsford Ltd unless he has employees, which he doesn't, simply has himself and a partner as directors.

In terms of liquidating from US, who knows. Obviously him and his partner is soon to have £5M to now invest somewhere or split if they are separating so might be related to this being done from a legal services company in US who's probably handling it all for them.

Correct. However I'm surprised that DB can claim to be a consultant to Sky for 9 years. On the face of it he only appears to work for Sky, etc. even if he is employed through Brailsford Ltd. So it would seem to be similar to many 'contractors' that are employed through personal services companies.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

I am a director of my own company and employed by another. There's no conflict with my contract, it's normal.
HMRC is cracking down on companies using long-term self-employed workers and workers using it to their advantage, but generally its an employer focus (IR35, Uber, BBC etc)
Metro Legal Services is the legal services company in Minnesota him and his partner are using to declare solvency for the company to be wound up
Brailsford Ltd has £5M assets in cash in the bank.

I don't see any Bs there?

And this makes you an expert in tax law ... oh boy. I once saw an episode of Casualty. I think I'll become a brain surgeon.

Try dealing with facts, not fatuous 'experience.'

I'm not claiming to be an expert, simply looking at his filing history. So what is BS? They are all facts simply copied from his files. I could have copied exact HMRC wording you can be a director and employee so don't have to liquidate on payroll employment, but given it's common place, hardly seemed worth justifying to be honest. I've been in this status for 6 years, so just giving insight it's pretty normal and Brtailsford doesn't have to liquidate that's all.

End of the day the shareholders funds Brailsford and his partner would receive if their business were to liquidate means they will soon have £5M to invest somewhere. That might be the next company, property, investments etc, who knows.

These will be treated as a dividend payment on winding up as far as I am aware - so will be subject to normal income tax under self assessment.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

I am a director of my own company and employed by another. There's no conflict with my contract, it's normal.
HMRC is cracking down on companies using long-term self-employed workers and workers using it to their advantage, but generally its an employer focus (IR35, Uber, BBC etc)
Metro Legal Services is the legal services company in Minnesota him and his partner are using to declare solvency for the company to be wound up
Brailsford Ltd has £5M assets in cash in the bank.

I don't see any Bs there?

And this makes you an expert in tax law ... oh boy. I once saw an episode of Casualty. I think I'll become a brain surgeon.

Try dealing with facts, not fatuous 'experience.'

I think youre being unfair on Sam there FMK. From the information we can glean from the UK Companies House site and recent HMRC court cases, Sam is right.

 

[samhocking]

He does some business talks and sports consultancy etc, so that would be another revenue stream besides Team Sky.
He paid £188K in Corporation Tax, £67K VAT and £5K NIC so hardly escaping HMRC lol! He will pay out on his shares obviously too.

Now, if as fmk is suggesting, liquidating the company is to do with tax law and his employment status with Tour Racing Ltd, and by that I assume he means the HMRC IR35 legislation that's another matter entirely and can't be decided looking at companies house alone. Liquidating a company happens for many, many reasons, not simply due to HMRC issues.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Reports in today's Sunday papers that Wayne Rooney is furious at being hit with a £5m tax bill after a film finance tax "avoidance" scheme he invested in was ruled to be tax "evasion"

See here for an explainer on film finance schemes (it's a BBC article so those who thought they were too important to pay tax are, for balance, allowed to bleat about how unfair it all now is ):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39080743

And there are loads of high net worth individuals (sports stars, celebs, etc) being hit now HMRC has called their bluff (there's a narrow circle of celeb advisers who push these scams)

So is Brailsfraud now digging round the sofa for £5m in loose change (or having to liquidate his Minnesota nest egg) because he pumped his Team Sky "consultancy fees" into a film finance scheme? The timing in uncanny eh...