Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

[Robert5091]

Unless SDB throws in the towel, his future for the moment seems to lie in James Murdoch's hands.

 

[B_Ugli]

Re:

To those who believe Brailsford is a 'dead man walking', that Brailsford is 'going down' ... may I ask just who you think is going to pull the trigger and put him out of our misery?

Is it going to be the Murdochs? The same Murdochs who sent Rebekah Brooks off on a very expensive gap year and then took her back into the fold on an even more generous new salary?

Is it going to be Disney, who did **** all about Harvey Weinstein when they owned Miramax?

Maybe it'll be Comcast, if their takeover of Sky goes ahead? Comcast, the owners of NBC, who nixed Ronan Farrow's Weinstein exposé?

Just who do you expect to actually turn off the life support machine here, people? Are you expecting Travis Tygart to come charging in on his white horse just like Richard Gere at the end of Pretty Woman?

Perhaps the UK authorities should pass the file to the French authorities where sporting fraud is a Criminal Offence..........that would wipe the smirk of Brailsfords face as he would be arrested in France.

 

[bambino]

Re:

Unless SDB throws in the towel, his future for the moment seems to lie in James Murdoch's hands.

There are no tangible evidence that would strip out any results from Wiggins (nor Sky riders in general), so they should not be worried about that.

The biggest hit in the report to SDB (and Sky) is the hit to their image. The Image SDB has been carefully building and maintaining over the years. You can see they are concerned about it - they could've simply said "as the report said we haven't broken the rules, let's carry on" - but instead they posted strong objections spesifically to the piece which claimed them being un-ethical, although not breaking any rules. That statement is a blow straight to inner core of their existence that they've built publically.

SDB won't throw the towel because of this, he will carry on. But in case Froome gets a ban, he might very well have to resign - without kicking Froome out before that. That might be the only way to save his beloved and carefully built empire (and it's main establishment, being Froome). Who is there left to lay off Froome if the guy who established and invented the internal rules is not there to enforce the rules anymore?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

To those who believe Brailsford is a 'dead man walking', that Brailsford is 'going down' ... may I ask just who you think is going to pull the trigger and put him out of our misery?

Is it going to be the Murdochs? The same Murdochs who sent Rebekah Brooks off on a very expensive gap year and then took her back into the fold on an even more generous new salary?

Is it going to be Disney, who did **** all about Harvey Weinstein when they owned Miramax?

Maybe it'll be Comcast, if their takeover of Sky goes ahead? Comcast, the owners of NBC, who nixed Ronan Farrow's Weinstein exposé?

Just who do you expect to actually turn off the life support machine here, people? Are you expecting Travis Tygart to come charging in on his white horse just like Richard Gere at the end of Pretty Woman?

Perhaps the UK authorities should pass the file to the French authorities where sporting fraud is a Criminal Offence..........that would wipe the smirk of Brailsfords face as he would be arrested in France.

Don't confuse 'evidence' with Parliamentary privilege.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

To those who believe Brailsford is a 'dead man walking', that Brailsford is 'going down' ... may I ask just who you think is going to pull the trigger and put him out of our misery?

Is it going to be the Murdochs? The same Murdochs who sent Rebekah Brooks off on a very expensive gap year and then took her back into the fold on an even more generous new salary?

Is it going to be Disney, who did **** all about Harvey Weinstein when they owned Miramax?

Maybe it'll be Comcast, if their takeover of Sky goes ahead? Comcast, the owners of NBC, who nixed Ronan Farrow's Weinstein exposé?

Just who do you expect to actually turn off the life support machine here, people? Are you expecting Travis Tygart to come charging in on his white horse just like Richard Gere at the end of Pretty Woman?

Perhaps the UK authorities should pass the file to the French authorities where sporting fraud is a Criminal Offence..........that would wipe the smirk of Brailsfords face as he would be arrested in France.

Don't confuse 'evidence' with Parliamentary privilege.

Sounds very much like a spin doctor trying to muddy the waters to defend his mate; two dishonest and disgraced people sticking together:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...lastair-campbell-dave-brailsford-2008634.html

The report is crystal clear - Brailsford and Wiggins are dishonest and cheated. And Campbell certainly isn't the best placed person to go around preaching about quality of evidence, given his propensity for lying and embellishment.

 

[ontheroad]

I agree that to a large extent Brailsford is still the master of his own destiny but the longer he stays at the helm the more the heat will continue to remain on him. I could see them manufacturing the teams exit from the sport at the end of the season but whether he is prepared to ride it out until then is debatable. It's like death by a thousand cuts.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/strong-and-stable-dave-brailsfords-year-of-saying-nothing/

Team Sky's approach to media relations over the years has often borne the hallmarks of Dave Brailsford's friend and admirer Alastair Campbell. The New Labour spin doctor's aggressive style felt most in evidence during the 2015 Tour de France, where the team happily planted stories with selected reporters from the British press, made the emotive and unsubstantiated claim that its data had been hacked – it may well have been leaked, which is altogether different – and later blamed the press room's reporting for provoking the (alleged) incident in which Chris Froome was doused in urine by a spectator.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

To those who believe Brailsford is a 'dead man walking', that Brailsford is 'going down' ... may I ask just who you think is going to pull the trigger and put him out of our misery?

Is it going to be the Murdochs? The same Murdochs who sent Rebekah Brooks off on a very expensive gap year and then took her back into the fold on an even more generous new salary?

Is it going to be Disney, who did **** all about Harvey Weinstein when they owned Miramax?

Maybe it'll be Comcast, if their takeover of Sky goes ahead? Comcast, the owners of NBC, who nixed Ronan Farrow's Weinstein exposé?

Just who do you expect to actually turn off the life support machine here, people? Are you expecting Travis Tygart to come charging in on his white horse just like Richard Gere at the end of Pretty Woman?

Perhaps the UK authorities should pass the file to the French authorities where sporting fraud is a Criminal Offence..........that would wipe the smirk of Brailsfords face as he would be arrested in France.

Don't confuse 'evidence' with Parliamentary privilege.

Sounds very much like a spin doctor trying to muddy the waters to defend his mate; two dishonest and disgraced people sticking together:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...lastair-campbell-dave-brailsford-2008634.html

The report is crystal clear - Brailsford and Wiggins are dishonest and cheated. And Campbell certainly isn't the best placed person to go around preaching about quality of evidence, given his propensity for lying and embellishment.

You are Piers Moron and I claim my €5.

 

[Parker]

Re: Re:

Don't confuse 'evidence' with Parliamentary privilege.

Something Damian Collins has prior form for: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/18/damian-collins-mp-parliamentary-privilege-neil-warnock

 

[53*11]

Re: Re:

Don't confuse 'evidence' with Parliamentary privilege.

Something Damian Collins has prior form for: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/18/damian-collins-mp-parliamentary-privilege-neil-warnock

piers morgan, a campbell and brailsford, three fine upstanding guys? ill take the committee's word any day over theirs!

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

Don't confuse 'evidence' with Parliamentary privilege.

Something Damian Collins has prior form for: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/18/damian-collins-mp-parliamentary-privilege-neil-warnock

going down with the sinking ship? There is still time to bail out and laugh at those who steadfastly remain you know..... its very amusing being out here looking in

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Don't confuse 'evidence' with Parliamentary privilege.

Something Damian Collins has prior form for: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/18/damian-collins-mp-parliamentary-privilege-neil-warnock

piers morgan, a campbell and brailsford, three fine upstanding guys? ill take the committee's word any day over theirs!

I think you need to re-read the posts. One of those is the odd one out.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

To those who believe Brailsford is a 'dead man walking', that Brailsford is 'going down' ... may I ask just who you think is going to pull the trigger and put him out of our misery?

Is it going to be the Murdochs? The same Murdochs who sent Rebekah Brooks off on a very expensive gap year and then took her back into the fold on an even more generous new salary?

Is it going to be Disney, who did **** all about Harvey Weinstein when they owned Miramax?

Maybe it'll be Comcast, if their takeover of Sky goes ahead? Comcast, the owners of NBC, who nixed Ronan Farrow's Weinstein exposé?

Just who do you expect to actually turn off the life support machine here, people? Are you expecting Travis Tygart to come charging in on his white horse just like Richard Gere at the end of Pretty Woman?

Perhaps the UK authorities should pass the file to the French authorities where sporting fraud is a Criminal Offence..........that would wipe the smirk of Brailsfords face as he would be arrested in France.

Don't confuse 'evidence' with Parliamentary privilege.

with transparency comes the ability of the great unwashed to evaluate the evidence themselves...we've seen SDB, Sutton, Cope et al perform at the Committee and we've seen the evidence in the public domain...we don't need an MP using parliamentary privilege to tell is the duck that looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...is, in fact, a duck

besides we didn't even need to commitee.......for anyone with a brain the tells were on sestriere in 2009 and the vuelta in 2011....

 

[Elagabalus]

Re:

To those who believe Brailsford is a 'dead man walking', that Brailsford is 'going down' ... may I ask just who you think is going to pull the trigger and put him out of our misery...?

... Are you expecting Travis Tygart to come charging in on his white horse just like Richard Gere at the end of Pretty Woman?

Oh, great! Thanks for the Spoiler Alert!

As to the rest of your post, I agree.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Don't confuse 'evidence' with Parliamentary privilege.

Something Damian Collins has prior form for: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/18/damian-collins-mp-parliamentary-privilege-neil-warnock

piers morgan, a campbell and brailsford, three fine upstanding guys? ill take the committee's word any day over theirs!

I think you need to re-read the posts. One of those is the odd one out.

You're such a spoilsport KB, I was enjoying that...

 

[Jacques (7 ch)]

Maybe someone can say more about this, but I thought that regardless of the fact that the use of the drug with a TUE makes it "legal"- that knowingly using any medicine (legal or not) for performance-enhancing purposes is a violation?
Thanks

It’s a good question. According to the WADA Code 4.3.1, a substance has to meet two of three criteria to be on the prohibited list:
1) performance-enhancing
2) health risk
3) violates spirit of the sport

Corticosteroids are on the list in the first place because they satisfy 1) and 3). The granting of a TUE for a prohibited substance implies that it will be used in a way that doesn’t fit the criteria. But if Sky used corticosteroids for weight loss, rather than medical reasons, then it seems as though in effect the criteria are satisfied.

Also. Article 2.5 of the Code, which defines tampering (which is a doping violation), includes “providing fraudulent information to an Anti-Doping Organization”. It seems to me that if a TUE were applied for on the basis of medical need, but was actually used to gain access to a drug used for PE, that would fit the definition of tampering. It says right on the TUE form what the drug is supposed to be used for.

Probably a good time to ask a legitimate question the answer to which we still await (from '13)......

"To illustrate the point, Paul Kimmage asked Brailsford precisely how Peter Kennaugh had managed - by his own admission - to lose five kilograms since he lined up at the Tour de Romandie in late April.

"Through calorie deficit," Brailsford said bluntly, before then expanding slightly on his answer. "Why not speak to Nigel our nutritionist? It's a good question to ask. That is a lot of weight to lose and I totally agree with you. What do we do to get to that kind of weight loss? They're the types of questions that would be legitimate to answer. I don't think there's any great secret in that." "

My favourite Sky question. Love reading that over and again.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Re:

A tax expect who thinks ethical considerations are irrelevant. Whoda thunk it!

Brailsfraud started Team Sky with all that ethical BS about winning clean, Brit doctors un-tainted by the continental racing scene, blah, blah. He put himself on the "paragon of moral virtue" pedestal. And lapped up the adulation. Because some people were stupid enough to believe him. They drank the Kool Aid

So whether Brailsfraud's tax arrangements are ethical is absolutely a subject of interest. Just as whether his team's medical practices are ethical is a subject of interest. He put the ethics issue out there. Reap what you sow

Being employed through a service company is not unethical at all - there are thousands of people employed that way in the UK.

A Kool Aid and the Gang member with a tin ear for ethics - quel surprise, Rodney

Now perhaps there are situations where consultancy/service company arrangements hold all concerned (including third parties like the exchequer) harmless - but I'm struggling to think of one

On the other hand, if the whole or part of the reason why a consultancy/service company arrangement is put in place is to dodge tax or employment rights obligations (the usual suspects) - then that's an ethical decision

When you start hurling insults, you've lost ...

When you think choosing to dodge tax is not an ethical decision, you've lost...

Pointing out you've got a tin ear ear for ethics is not an insult, it's a fact...

Btw have you seen the front page of today's Times? Says Wiggo has been caught investing in another dodgy tax scheme. For a working class lad from Kilburn to be caught in one tax scam might be regarded as a misfortune, to be caught twice looks like carelessness...

Not forgetting of course Wiggo's charity for "underprivileged kids" that accidentally gave the wonga to his Team GB track squad team mates and bought kit for his son's rugby team, it's a slippery slope when ethics go out the window...

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Don't confuse 'evidence' with Parliamentary privilege.

Something Damian Collins has prior form for: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/18/damian-collins-mp-parliamentary-privilege-neil-warnock

piers morgan, a campbell and brailsford, three fine upstanding guys? ill take the committee's word any day over theirs!

I think you need to re-read the posts. One of those is the odd one out.

You're such a spoilsport KB, I was enjoying that...

Soz!

 

[53*11]

Re: Re:

A tax expect who thinks ethical considerations are irrelevant. Whoda thunk it!

Brailsfraud started Team Sky with all that ethical BS about winning clean, Brit doctors un-tainted by the continental racing scene, blah, blah. He put himself on the "paragon of moral virtue" pedestal. And lapped up the adulation. Because some people were stupid enough to believe him. They drank the Kool Aid

So whether Brailsfraud's tax arrangements are ethical is absolutely a subject of interest. Just as whether his team's medical practices are ethical is a subject of interest. He put the ethics issue out there. Reap what you sow

Being employed through a service company is not unethical at all - there are thousands of people employed that way in the UK.

A Kool Aid and the Gang member with a tin ear for ethics - quel surprise, Rodney

Now perhaps there are situations where consultancy/service company arrangements hold all concerned (including third parties like the exchequer) harmless - but I'm struggling to think of one

On the other hand, if the whole or part of the reason why a consultancy/service company arrangement is put in place is to dodge tax or employment rights obligations (the usual suspects) - then that's an ethical decision

When you start hurling insults, you've lost ...

When you think choosing to dodge tax is not an ethical decision, you've lost...

Pointing out you've got a tin ear ear for ethics is not an insult, it's a fact...

Btw have you seen the front page of today's Times? Says Wiggo has been caught investing in another dodgy tax scheme. For a working class lad from Kilburn to be caught in one tax scam might be regarded as a misfortune, to be caught twice looks like carelessness...

Not forgetting of course Wiggo's charity for "underprivileged kids" that accidentally gave the wonga to his Team GB track squad team mates and bought kit for his son's rugby team, it's a slippery slope when ethics go out the window...

im wondering if brailsford/his advisors timed the company changes to coincide with the publication of the committee report; in the best traditions of politicians the worlds over, bury your mess when there a bigger meess about to be dumped. his mate a campbell would approve im sure

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

im wondering if brailsford/his advisors timed the company changes to coincide with the publication of the committee report; in the best traditions of politicians the worlds over, bury your mess when there a bigger meess about to be dumped. his mate a campbell would approve im sure

One: it landed more than a week early in that case, and even without the distraction made little impact except upon our resident Ethicist in Chief.

Two: I wish I could predict that good exactly when Companies House will make a form available on their website.

Three: no one knew when the report was going to be published.

Still, this is the Clinic, where Rule #4 says there are no coincidences, only conspiracies.

 

[53*11]

Re: Re:

im wondering if brailsford/his advisors timed the company changes to coincide with the publication of the committee report; in the best traditions of politicians the worlds over, bury your mess when there a bigger meess about to be dumped. his mate a campbell would approve im sure

One: it landed more than a week early in that case, and even without the distraction made little impact except upon our resident Ethicist in Chief.

Two: I wish I could predict that good exactly when Companies House will make a form available on their website.

Three: no one knew when the report was going to be published.

Still, this is the Clinic, where Rule #4 says there are no coincidences, only conspiracies.

1. fair enough.
2 is it not the case in the UK that a company director/advisor must themselves start the proceedings of winding up a company/change addresses by notifying companies house etc etc?
3. the DCMS report was widely expected to be published by middle to end of Feb as per their website? and im sure sky/DB/ their legals would have a better idea of that date of when it would be released ,than mere fans like us, seeing as he and the team were gpoing to be front and centre for some very unwelcome and hard criticism?

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Another re-post from back in the day, this time a 2011 article from a journo who was embedded with Team Sky during the 2011 Criterium de Dauphine. The quote in below, from Brailsfraud of course, was given on the very day on which the infamous jiffybag was delivered by Cope to Freeman. Uncanny that Brailsfraud has the issue of dodgy injections in the back of team buses at the forefront of his mind on that of all days!

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/all-aboard-the-magic-bus-3974

“There’s nothing going on here,” [Brailsford] says, answering a question that hasn’t really been asked. “Absolutely nothing at all. I know that’s not good enough for some people. It’s like the no-needles policy. I think that is absolutely great but how’s it being enforced? I’ve spoken to Pat [McQuaid, UCI president] and I told him the UCI needs to get out here and enforce it. Where are they? They need to be on the buses. There are 20 teams, how hard can it be to have an observer on each bus? That’s your window of opportunity for recovery there, between the finish and the hotel, so get someone on the buses. “The doctors are scared, you know. Okay, so if you give someone something to go uphill faster, that’s one thing. But very few people are prepared to risk going to prison to make someone go uphill faster.”

 

[.Froomestrong.]

Re:

Liars and criminals are seldom very clever, as is on display here. There must be some subconscious "need" to confess, that allows these slip-ups.

Another re-post from back in the day, this time a 2011 article from a journo who was embedded with Team Sky during the 2011 Criterium de Dauphine. The quote in below, from Brailsfraud of course, was given on the very day on which the infamous jiffybag was delivered by Cope to Freeman. Uncanny that Brailsfraud has the issue of dodgy injections in the back of team buses at the forefront of his mind on that of all days!

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/all-aboard-the-magic-bus-3974

“There’s nothing going on here,” [Brailsford] says, answering a question that hasn’t really been asked. “Absolutely nothing at all. I know that’s not good enough for some people. It’s like the no-needles policy. I think that is absolutely great but how’s it being enforced? I’ve spoken to Pat [McQuaid, UCI president] and I told him the UCI needs to get out here and enforce it. Where are they? They need to be on the buses. There are 20 teams, how hard can it be to have an observer on each bus? That’s your window of opportunity for recovery there, between the finish and the hotel, so get someone on the buses. “The doctors are scared, you know. Okay, so if you give someone something to go uphill faster, that’s one thing. But very few people are prepared to risk going to prison to make someone go uphill faster.”

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Re:

Liars and criminals are seldom very clever, as is on display here. There must be some subconscious "need" to confess, that allows these slip-ups.

Another re-post from back in the day, this time a 2011 article from a journo who was embedded with Team Sky during the 2011 Criterium de Dauphine. The quote in below, from Brailsfraud of course, was given on the very day on which the infamous jiffybag was delivered by Cope to Freeman. Uncanny that Brailsfraud has the issue of dodgy injections in the back of team buses at the forefront of his mind on that of all days!

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/all-aboard-the-magic-bus-3974

“There’s nothing going on here,” [Brailsford] says, answering a question that hasn’t really been asked. “Absolutely nothing at all. I know that’s not good enough for some people. It’s like the no-needles policy. I think that is absolutely great but how’s it being enforced? I’ve spoken to Pat [McQuaid, UCI president] and I told him the UCI needs to get out here and enforce it. Where are they? They need to be on the buses. There are 20 teams, how hard can it be to have an observer on each bus? That’s your window of opportunity for recovery there, between the finish and the hotel, so get someone on the buses. “The doctors are scared, you know. Okay, so if you give someone something to go uphill faster, that’s one thing. But very few people are prepared to risk going to prison to make someone go uphill faster.”

Yep, either that or he's just brazenly showing off for the back of the bus gang, lolz all round

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

To those who believe Brailsford is a 'dead man walking', that Brailsford is 'going down' ... may I ask just who you think is going to pull the trigger and put him out of our misery?

[snipped]

Just who do you expect to actually turn off the life support machine here, people? Are you expecting Travis Tygart to come charging in on his white horse just like Richard Gere at the end of Pretty Woman?

"Travis, Travis, I love you, but we only have fourteen hours to save the sport of cycling!"