Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

[brownbobby]

Re: Re:

@gillian1969

That was kind of my point if you read it properly..the abuse wasn't being saved for the riders, it was aimed at anyone who displayed any kind of affiliation to Team Sky. Which i think was part of what SDB was saying about not being comfortable sending some people out in Sky vehicles etc....there doesn't need to be a specific threat against females for someone to decide there might be a heightened need to consider the security of said group.

Of course he can be called out on it, just like i can also empathise with what he said if i want to....

To the point on him heightening it himself to a large extent...no argument from me on that one.

the age of equality lives on...SDB on his white horse

and quietening hordes of drunken fans on the road side with just a quiet word...there really is no end to the mans 's talents

That bit really was astonishing, i'd love to meet SDB just to ask him what was said...it was like the window was wound down to reveal Don Corleone sat in the passenger seat :lol:

 

[samhocking]

He Said "Do that again and Froome's motor gets switch on to MAX POWER with this button on my dashboard and Nibali will lose"

Re: Lappartient not guilty wording. Froome was not charged with anything. You can only be found not-guilty if you are charged with something. Froomes AAF didn't get that far, he was at explanation phase. i.e. UCI asked him to prove we shouldn't charge you an ADRV based on your presumed AAF. AAF is not a charge of guilt, it is a presumed reason to charge you guilty unless you can prove your innocence that it was caused within the rules. ~When this story broke, everyone was using phrases like "Froome must prove his innocence with the pharmo test". Now he's aquitted, everyone's now using 'he proved he wasn't guilty'? Make your mind up!

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

He Said "Do that again and Froome's motor gets switch on to MAX POWER with this button on my dashboard and Nibali will lose"

Re: Lappartient not guilty wording. Froome was not charged with anything. You can only be found not-guilty if you are charged with something. Froomes AAF didn't get that far, he was at explanation phase. i.e. UCI asked him to prove we shouldn't charge you an ADRV based on your presumed AAF. AAF is not a charge of guilt, it is a presumed reason to charge you guilty unless you can prove your innocence that it was caused within the rules.

you keep clinging...the numbers speak for themselves

so he wasn't 'charged' with anything??? really...so nothing happened at all? he was innocent and asked to prove that innocence....

double innocence...so what about all the other riders at the Vuelta....were they treble innocent...quadriple???

love it

 

[bambino]

Re:

He Said "Do that again and Froome's motor gets switch on to MAX POWER with this button on my dashboard and Nibali will lose"

Re: Lappartient not guilty wording. Froome was not charged with anything. You can only be found not-guilty if you are charged with something. Froomes AAF didn't get that far, he was at explanation phase. i.e. UCI asked him to prove we shouldn't charge you an ADRV based on your presumed AAF. AAF is not a charge of guilt, it is a presumed reason to charge you guilty unless you can prove your innocence that it was caused within the rules. ~When this story broke, everyone was using phrases like "Froome must prove his innocence with the pharmo test". Now he's aquitted, everyone's now using 'he proved he wasn't guilty'? Make your mind up!

I thought it being in UCI tribunal means that he was charged? And we have pretty much solid proof that the case was in tribunal.

 

[samhocking]

I've not read he was charged with an anti-doping rule violation? That's news to me. Don't see how it could have been given WADA's wording he was acquitted of the AAF, not acquitted of an ADRV?

the sample may be considered not to be an AAF.

 

[bambino]

Re:

I've not read he was charged with an anti-doping rule violation? That's news to me. Don't see how it could have been given WADA's wording he was acquitted of the AAF, not acquitted of an ADRV?

the sample may be considered not to be an AAF.

Well the UCI tribunal procedure is quite clear in which cases the Tribunal will have jurisdiction. All 3 elements refers to cases where ADRV has been charged.

Here is the producedural document, Article 3.

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Organisation/16/95/42/Anti-DopingTribunalProceduralRules_English.pdf

Maybe there is something I don't understand, or maybe UCI has decided to bend their own procedures in going to Tribunal, all I know is this procedure talks solely on ADRV's and that Froome's case was in Tribunal.

Edit: It seems the order of things are: WADA: There is an AAF --> Froome explains ---> UCI not happy, charges ADRV --> Froome not accepting ---> UCI Tribunal established ---> WADA: There was no AAF!! --> UCI needs to accept because the first trigger was voided . Why on earth WADA did that, I guess we will never know (in details).

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Nighttrain99:

I'm not going to say directly in the clinic because there's never any balanced discussion, but in terms of Brailsford's anger, consider the following statements all said within context of Froome's exoneration from Lappartient.

Lappartient on Ulissi and Pettachi ADRVs
"I must emphasise that each of the relevant athletes had access to a fair hearing as provided for by the WADA Code and the UCI ADR."

Lappartient on UCI's anti-doping credibility generally:
"Everyone will have the same treatment, for sure. In the UCI there are no exceptions, everyone gets the same treatment," Lappartient insisted.

Lappartient on Froome's exoneration provided for by the WADA Code and the UCI ADR
"If you have more money, you can afford more lawyers and more experts. This can sometimes help you to prove you are not guilty"

That is what Brailsford is angry about and if that's not town mayor bias, what is, regardless of Brailsford's numptyness. Lappartients handing is not impartial and his comments make UCI look weak and complacent and unfocused on what exactly they are meant to be and how Lappartient should rise above personal bias.

Talk about discussions lacking balance. What is in any of those quotes that shows bias, that shows Lappartient is not impartial? Making that claim shows incredible lack of balance on your part.

And UCI accepted that. As they accepted it, Lappartient can't then claim money bought Froomes innocence while maintaining UCI under Lappartient is credible and requesting fans to 'please still believe in cycling'. That is a copout, especially while maintaining other similar cases were dealt with properly

He didn’t claim money bought Froome’s innocence. Did you read the quote? He said money helped him prove that he was not guilty. Repeat: "help you to prove you are not guilty". Those are his words. How can someone prove he wasn't guilty, with or without money, unless he wasn't guilty? Lappartient in that quote is saying that in his opinion Froome was not guilty, but without money he might not have been able to prove it. What you’re falsely attributing to him is that he said Froome was guilty, but money bought his innocence. Not helped him prove what he actually was, but bought something he might not have been. "Money bought his innocence" is not the same as "money helps you to prove you are not guilty." I have no idea whether you and nighttrain aren't perceptive enough to see the difference, or whether you intentionally twisted the words to make Lappartient look bad, because you have a pre-existing bias that he is bad. Maybe both.

You post some of the most useful info here. Your perception of anything I’ve offered on this subject is way off, though. I’ve clearly stated my opinion of Brailsford is that of an arrogant man who used a public form to disgrace the president of the UCI. I’ve also said that I enjoy the spectacle of it all to the point of wishing Sky would accept and own their role of villain. Rowe tearing down a banner is another example. I don’t condone his or Brailsford’s actions but as a viewer of sports I can appreciate top shelf bad guy behavior as long as no one cheats or is injured.

Lappartient's exact words 'AFTER' Froomes acquittal were:

Everyone will have the same treatment, for sure. In the UCI there are no exceptions, everyone gets the same treatment," Lappartient insisted.

But what is also sure and not only in cycling or sport but also in business and politics, is that if you have more money, you can afford more lawyers and more experts. This can sometimes help you to prove you are not guilty. But the rules from the UCI are the same."

That statement using 'prove not guilty' alongside assuring everyone the UCI are credible and its anti-doping structure is solid. etc and there are no exceptions in UCI's handling, is Brailsford's issue. Lappartient can't claim both and be credible without it sounding like he has doubts Froome's innocence.

He should have worded it that UCI's doesn't treat anyone differently, while Froome's lawyers and money helped him prove his innocence, the rules are the same for everyone.

Lappartient loaded the statement that Froome was proving he was not guilty, when in fact he was proving he was innocent from what we know so far. i.e. he's proving he didn't inhale more than allowed, not that he inhaled more than allowed, but money made him not guilty of it.

He said exactly like he should've, and he said it like that so the all cycling fans knows his stance on this subject. He thinks Froome's guilty and the Sky money bought him exoneration, and he wants that everyone knows that. He also was pretty clear, that WADA played deciding role in this case, and that UCI had no other choice than to accept their decision.

 

[B_Ugli]

Re:

From Guardian today:

For Team Sky, their safety during the Tour remains a concern, according to Brailsford. “We’ve got young women in the team that come and support the VIPs, and normally they drive around on their own, but I can’t allow that to happen in this race,” he said. “I want to make sure we get this on the agenda so the people with influence, who are mainly the French, can influence things like the crowds.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jul/11/tour-de-france-peter-sagan-wins-stage-five-simmering-team-sky-tension

How to make friends and influence people!

Dont put your staff in that position in the first place then Dave by being a lying cheating scumbag.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

From Guardian today:

For Team Sky, their safety during the Tour remains a concern, according to Brailsford. “We’ve got young women in the team that come and support the VIPs, and normally they drive around on their own, but I can’t allow that to happen in this race,” he said. “I want to make sure we get this on the agenda so the people with influence, who are mainly the French, can influence things like the crowds.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jul/11/tour-de-france-peter-sagan-wins-stage-five-simmering-team-sky-tension

How to make friends and influence people!

Dont put your staff in that position in the first place then Dave by being a lying cheating scumbag.

Is this the same Dave Brailsford who tried to blame Emma Pooely for meeting Michael Cope to avoid the Jiffy Bag story? Dave sure has a problem with women.

 

[Robert5091]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jul/16/bradley-wiggins-stirs-pot-warning-danger-rift-team-sky

Wiggins continued, describing the Team Sky principal, Dave Brailsford, as “divisive” and “self-serving.” He said: “Does Dave B come in and do his usual and be quite divisive and get in each other’s ear and kind of keep them both motivated for the same goal and there be a natural selection?

“Dave will be telling them they can both win it, as a way of motivating them, as a way of playing these cards deep in to the race. He’s quite self-serving. For him it’s about the team winning, it’s not about the individuals or the characters. He will always be in those riders’ ears constantly, and he has been, up till now as you can see.”

Shocked! SDB "Divisive"? OMG! :surprised:

 

[macbindle]

Wiggins is a bit of a dimmo, isn't he. Of course it's about the team winning. That is how it should be. I bet Brailsford regrets not releasing Froome from his least on that mountain in 2012.

He made that mistake in 2011.

 

[MartinGT]

I saw an interview with SDB and they mentioned what Wigan had said and he didnt look impressed :lol:

 

[macbindle]

The interview I saw he p1ssed himself laughing.

When it comes to Wiggins and Brailsford, it's probably one of those situations where it wasn't a battle between good and evil

 

[MartinGT]

Re:

The interview I saw he p1ssed himself laughing.

When it comes to Wiggins and Brailsford, it's probably one of those situations where it wasn't a battle between good and evil

Agreed.

 

[ctaylor]

Brailsford now blaming the "reactions" to Froome / Sky on French racism! He doesn't know when to stop, does he....

 

[ontheroad]

Brailsford has had another go at the French!!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-blames-tour-de-france-roadside-reactions-on-a-french-cultural-thing/

It seems like unless you dance to his tune he just can't accept it. He must be living in a sheltered bubble where I honestly don't think he gets the anger of many withing the cycling world. Every time he opens his mouth he just end up making things worse.

 

[JosephK]

Re:

Brailsford has had another go at the French!!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-blames-tour-de-france-roadside-reactions-on-a-french-cultural-thing/

It seems like unless you dance to his tune he just can't accept it. He must be living in a sheltered bubble where I honestly don't think he gets the anger of many withing the cycling world. Every time he opens his mouth he just end up making things worse.

LOL. Sir Dave is unable to resist kicking the hornets' nest. I would say he has not reduced the likelihood of adverse fan reactions to his boys in week 3 of the Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Brailsford has had another go at the French!!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-blames-tour-de-france-roadside-reactions-on-a-french-cultural-thing/

It seems like unless you dance to his tune he just can't accept it. He must be living in a sheltered bubble where I honestly don't think he gets the anger of many withing the cycling world. Every time he opens his mouth he just end up making things worse.

LOL. Sir Dave is unable to resist kicking the hornets' nest. I would say he has not reduced the likelihood of adverse fan reactions to his boys in week 3 of the Tour.

Talk about arrogance at work.

 

[Alpe73]

Re: Re:

Brailsford has had another go at the French!!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-blames-tour-de-france-roadside-reactions-on-a-french-cultural-thing/

It seems like unless you dance to his tune he just can't accept it. He must be living in a sheltered bubble where I honestly don't think he gets the anger of many withing the cycling world. Every time he opens his mouth he just end up making things worse.

LOL. Sir Dave is unable to resist kicking the hornets' nest. I would say he has not reduced the likelihood of adverse fan reactions to his boys in week 3 of the Tour.

The press, social media (oops!), Hinault, etc. .. all did their part to whip (some) French fans into a frenzy.

It’s a sporting event, FFS ... and Sky riders are having piss thrown at them. For what???

Dave just calling it as he sees it. Some French fans could do a lot better; Italian fans did.

“Passionate French Fans” is just a euphemism (and smokescreen) for .... over zealous, sick behaviour.

Good for Brailsford for sticking up for his team.

 

[BetOrLose]

Brailsford is just saying the truth deal with it.

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

Brailsfraud should be happy we’re not throwing anything else than piss at his band of cheaters. And no, its hardly only french who are racking up against them on the road.

 

[70kmph]

Brailsford has just been kicked in the teeth, so hes lashing out...

 

[yaco]

I don't have much time for Brailsford who can be pompous and arrogant at times,but on this occasion he is stating the obvious - Sky receive a generous welcome in the Giro and the Vuelta, compared to the TDF - Sometimes the truth hurts.

 

[Craigee]

Re: Re:

Brailsford has had another go at the French!!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-blames-tour-de-france-roadside-reactions-on-a-french-cultural-thing/

It seems like unless you dance to his tune he just can't accept it. He must be living in a sheltered bubble where I honestly don't think he gets the anger of many withing the cycling world. Every time he opens his mouth he just end up making things worse.

LOL. Sir Dave is unable to resist kicking the hornets' nest. I would say he has not reduced the likelihood of adverse fan reactions to his boys in week 3 of the Tour.

The press, social media (oops!), Hinault, etc. .. all did their part to whip (some) French fans into a frenzy.

It’s a sporting event, FFS ... and Sky riders are having piss thrown at them. For what???

Dave just calling it as he sees it. Some French fans could do a lot better; Italian fans did.

“Passionate French Fans” is just a euphemism (and smokescreen) for .... over zealous, sick behaviour.

Good for Brailsford for sticking up for his team.

You do know that Team Sky was investigated by it's own British govt. You do know this don't you? They didn't come out of it with flying colours ether. No wonder the French don't want them riding their big event. It's just more Denial Denial Denial with Brailsford. It's their own faults. No one elses.

Who likes arrogant teams and athletes?

 

[Pennino]

Maybe - maybe - it has something to do with Sky already killing the TdF since 2012 while only last year they copied there French recipe in Spain and only this year in Italy? Just a rough guess, though.

Personally I like it when the crowd shares it's opinion. It's the crowd why this is a professional sport in the first place. Sure you can respond to that with even more arrogance, but likely the crowd will have an answer to that as well...