Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

[gillan1969]

I'm saying if the SLA was for Cope to provide this level of help while employed at British Cycling, them his evidence so far supports that. If a trip to drop off doping products clearly has Dauphine written next to them, it doesn't exactly suggest either Cope is hiding under his BC title in order to somehow spend taxpayers money performing such logistics for Team Sky or not.
Cook has said he was active, Cope says he wasn't. Cooke has a newspaper column to sell, Cope had an investigation asking him what his role was in 2011. Believe Cope or Believe Cook is simply an opinion on what each have said. Without further investigation we will never know more than that.

Nice bloody try at obfuscation Sam. I have work in compliance as a regulator and this seems to be a clear cut case of misallocatiom of funds in Cope ' s time being paid for by taxpayers, but used to benefit a private entity. The whole he said she said argument seems to be an attempt to create uncertainty when there is none. Interesting to me as you arguments have shifted as the evidence has shifted. Shows a higher level communication ability on your part and dedication to the case of Sky.

There is no Elite Womens coach in British Cycling, just like there isn't an Elite mens coach either. Ellingworth is the full-time Team Sky coach who then manages/coaches the BC mens Worlds road team once the main elite season ends, the same as Cope did for the elite women in 2009/10 alongside his U23 Womens Road Academy Coach title. In 2011 Cope still had the title of U23 Womens Road Academy Coach and like Ellingworth also doubled up with the role of managing the Elite womens road team, but he says his role in BC as a coach was inactive. By November 2011 he was DS at Team Exergy Women's Cycling Team.
I'm not saying it was right for Cooke to be refused the training camp she wanted, but that can't be used to suggest there was a missalocation of funds to Sky, when a) we don't even know if Cope was on the BC payroll and even if he was, b) in March 2011 he's already on Team Sky training camps and is largely with them for the whole year which suggests his role as U23 Womens Coach really was inactive.

'suggests' and 'don't know'

the fact checking that goes on in my industry when the boss calls you in for a problem that 'might' hit the 'local' press is really quite stringent...

a whole lot more stringent, it would appear, than when the Commons Select Committee is grilling you amid the gaze of the national and international press......and lets not forget when your attention to detail is second to none

face test straight (re-arrange)

 

[samhocking]

True, but you don't have your industry ombudsman on one side telling you not to say anything to your boss though do you and the press on the other asking you what you can't answer yet.

 

[deviant]

A lot of the problem here is that some posters don't get the British psyche....whereas continental Europe has been cycling mad for decades it's only a recent thing in the UK....there are also our PED laws which are virtually non existent so unless a British athlete tests positive most people really couldn't care less.
Most people I know involved in sport in the UK (at an amateur level) think the French are barmy for throwing people in jail for using PEDs, maybe it's a cultural thing but most Brits take the attitude of "it's just sport" and get on with their lives.

Sport in the UK (except maybe football where they are mostly all multi millionaires and held up as role models) is seen as a pleasant pastime and not a lot else which is why people involved in this 'scandal' aren't afraid of jail time, court appearances or being asked to answer some questions from a load of clueless MPs.

Racial/cultural stereotype coming up but there's also the fact that with Festina, Puerto etc these scandals hit countries where gossip and leaked info to the press from the police, lawyers, DRs and politicians is quite normal, therefore I think people find the silent approach of BC, Sky etc frustrating, then you have lawyers and DRs here who actually keep to their professional promise of confidentiality...in the UK unless there is compelling evidence people will exercise their right to silence and ride it out.

Rightly or wrongly that's how it is here.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

A lot of the problem here is that some posters don't get the British psyche....whereas continental Europe has been cycling mad for decades it's only a recent thing in the UK....there are also our PED laws which are virtually non existent so unless a British athlete tests positive most people really couldn't care less.
Most people I know involved in sport in the UK (at an amateur level) think the French are barmy for throwing people in jail for using PEDs, maybe it's a cultural thing but most Brits take the attitude of "it's just sport" and get on with their lives.

Sport in the UK (except maybe football where they are mostly all multi millionaires and held up as role models) is seen as a pleasant pastime and not a lot else which is why people involved in this 'scandal' aren't afraid of jail time, court appearances or being asked to answer some questions from a load of clueless MPs.

Racial/cultural stereotype coming up but there's also the fact that with Festina, Puerto etc these scandals hit countries where gossip and leaked info to the press from the police, lawyers, DRs and politicians is quite normal, therefore I think people find the silent approach of BC, Sky etc frustrating, then you have lawyers and DRs here who actually keep to their professional promise of confidentiality...in the UK unless there is compelling evidence people will exercise their right to silence and ride it out.

Rightly or wrongly that's how it is here.

I dont think so.

Millar not picked for teamsky because of his doping past.

Linford Christie for a long time an outcast from UK sport or TV appearances.

Radcliffe holding a sign up saying EPO Cheates Out is playing to her UK fans.

This idea that UK doesn't get the doping thing. Sorry if this was true then why are the Government having inquiries in Coe & Braislford?

 

[wansteadimp]

Re: Re:

A lot of the problem here is that some posters don't get the British psyche....whereas continental Europe has been cycling mad for decades it's only a recent thing in the UK....there are also our PED laws which are virtually non existent so unless a British athlete tests positive most people really couldn't care less.
Most people I know involved in sport in the UK (at an amateur level) think the French are barmy for throwing people in jail for using PEDs, maybe it's a cultural thing but most Brits take the attitude of "it's just sport" and get on with their lives.

Sport in the UK (except maybe football where they are mostly all multi millionaires and held up as role models) is seen as a pleasant pastime and not a lot else which is why people involved in this 'scandal' aren't afraid of jail time, court appearances or being asked to answer some questions from a load of clueless MPs.

Racial/cultural stereotype coming up but there's also the fact that with Festina, Puerto etc these scandals hit countries where gossip and leaked info to the press from the police, lawyers, DRs and politicians is quite normal, therefore I think people find the silent approach of BC, Sky etc frustrating, then you have lawyers and DRs here who actually keep to their professional promise of confidentiality...in the UK unless there is compelling evidence people will exercise their right to silence and ride it out.

Rightly or wrongly that's how it is here.

I dont think so.

Millar not picked for teamsky because of his doping past.

Linford Christie for a long time an outcast from UK sport or TV appearances.

Radcliffe holding a sign up saying EPO Cheates Out is playing to her UK fans.

This idea that UK doesn't get the doping thing. Sorry if this was true then why are the Government having inquiries in Coe & Braislford?

Because they're odious cees and the press just wants to kick them, and because politicians want to get themselves some publicity (next statements about bears and woods).

 

[yaco]

Re:

As a Brit I'm confused by the constant reference by posters on here to Sky/BC's alleged fraudulent use of government money....this isn't U.S. Postal where a government run institution was funding a cycling team (and subsequently doping).
The Sky team doesn't take a penny from the UK government, it's a Murdoch enterprise and Manchester/BC is lottery funded, I don't play the lottery so I don't feel defrauded, it's not compulsory to buy a ticket!
Buy a ticket and help put some money into most Olympic sports or don't, choice is the punters...i don't think some on here get that.

All talk of jail time, the government trying to recoup funds etc is fantasy by posters on here who don't understand the system of sport funding in the UK, the government actually contributes very little and most goes to schools not professional setups.
That is why little will come of this, sorry to burst some bubbles.

You are absolutely right - Funniest thing is a few who were critical of the Bahrain Government with their dubious human rights issue ( which is an issue in every country to varying degrees ) funding a WT Team couldn't or wouldn't accept that US Postal was funded by the Government - Even after it was pointed out the USA Government was suing Lance Armstrong - At times there is fantasy on these forums.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

I am convinced some in this forum don't understand process - Kenworthy the Head of UKAD should not be seen or heard - His agency has the job to run a professional investigation, to try to find evidence as to what is contained in the mystery package, and if necessarys charge Wiggins and/or others with an Anti-Doping Violation - Kenworthy has no role making press statements and allegations in the press - One of the central tenets of NADOC's is confidentiality and privacy - I am surprised Kenworthy still has a job.

as I understand it he is close to leaving...as I also understand it he is not known for such breaches of protocol

You can only therefore, imagine how annoyed he is at DB.

DB may have pulled the wool over the faithful's eyes, he is now finding he has a slightly tougher job with a slightly more skeptical audience

Irrelevant - UKAD's role is to investigate the 'mystery package' and prosecute if necessary - Anti-Doping is supposed to be private and confidential until a decision is made - It's strange that learned voices in this forum have little or no understanding of ethics.

The UK Government like all Governments have Senate Committees that grill Heads of Government Department usually three or four times a year - This is healthy democracy.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Nope again, BC is funded by annual subs paid by amateurs like me, it gets us insurance, race entries, UCI points etc, it obviously also pays some salaries of those who administrate this organization.
If you think UK tax payer has anything to do with funding BC you're delusional....as I wrote earlier (and will repeat for the hard of thinking), you can if you choose to buy a national lottery ticket and fund sport that way but nobody is forced to do this and there's no guarantee which sport your money will go to, it could be BC or it could be UK track and field....the only involvement the government has is some influence on deciding who are the worthy causes (the gym in my village for example was built using lottery money, not tax payers money, not local council money, not regional government money but lottery money that you have a choice about)
If amateurs like me stopped paying out our annual subs to BC it would likely implode, Sky might go on as that's Murdoch's money and a different story.

Tell me Hog, did Cope (as a tax payer funded coach according to you) get a good government pension and superannuation payout when he left that job?....of course he didn't because he wasn't being paid via the UK tax system and wasn't a government employee...like everyone else at Manchester he's reliant on annual membership fees and lottery funding....this is basic stuff....plus some sponsorship obviously although this can vary from individual to individual.

The UK government doesn't have a good record on sports funding, it's pretty much non existent unlike the old East German state run sports academies, what little money the UK government does put into sport goes pretty much to grass roots stuff not mega million projects like team Sky.
The link between BC and Sky has always been there, at the start of Sky Brailsford said openly he would use methods that had worked on the track for BC and try to transfer them to Sky....this is common knowledge and still doesn't involve the use of tax payers money...the money is from British Cycling's burgeoning membership numbers, Lottery funding and Murdoch's vanity in funding Sky.

It may irk some posters that the money seems to flow between organisations but when you have someone like Geraint Thomas or Brad alternating between the track and team Sky you're going to get some crossover of money.
Thankfully sanity prevails in the UK and unlike France where sports doping is actually illegal I can go online now and order peptides, GH, EPO, steroids etc and nothing will happen to me (provided I didn't import, the meds have to come from inside the UK)....the only person breaking any laws may be the supplier unless they are a registered prescriber in which case no problem...the reason?...these PEDs have legitimate medical uses....we're not talking MDMA here.
It's the same with Brads TUE, it may be crap but it's legal crap so deal with it.

Anyway, this is great entertainment so please continue.

yup, so legal is it they can't admit to it until they are brought before a committee.....

let's face facts...we're in LA saddle cream territory here...the story seems benign...but we all know that saddle cream and asthma treatments don't turn you into a GT winner....

behind the froth of this ridiculous story lies a far more serious story for Wiggins...he caned it and got out when he could....he thought, we thought, he had got away with it...

However...........angry bears and the subsequent lies will now slowly and painfully uncover the truth

5 mins could have sorted out all this 'legal' stuff....and yet...here we are

so, as you say...it's great entertainment...long may it continue

So you expect a NADO to start and finalise an investigation into a possible anti-doping violation in 5 minutes - Please ! Let the investigation take its course.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

I am convinced some in this forum don't understand process - Kenworthy the Head of UKAD should not be seen or heard - His agency has the job to run a professional investigation, to try to find evidence as to what is contained in the mystery package, and if necessarys charge Wiggins and/or others with an Anti-Doping Violation - Kenworthy has no role making press statements and allegations in the press - One of the central tenets of NADOC's is confidentiality and privacy - I am surprised Kenworthy still has a job.

as I understand it he is close to leaving...as I also understand it he is not known for such breaches of protocol

You can only therefore, imagine how annoyed he is at DB.

DB may have pulled the wool over the faithful's eyes, he is now finding he has a slightly tougher job with a slightly more skeptical audience

Irrelevant - UKAD's role is to investigate the 'mystery package' and prosecute if necessary - Anti-Doping is supposed to be private and confidential until a decision is made - It's strange that learned voices in this forum have little or no understanding of ethics.

The UK Government like all Governments have Senate Committees that grill Heads of Government Department usually three or four times a year - This is healthy democracy.

There is a good understanding of ethics. What you don't understand is your governance. Prosecute belongs to criminal law, not anti-doping infractions. Terminology is important along with the supposed "confidentially" clause. Anti-doping chief are at liberty to comment on a public parliamentary committee hearing as had occurred. It has nothing to do with the Investgation mearly that they cannot get sufficient evidence from those whom they are investigating.

 

[vedrafjord]

From a 2011 edition of Cycling Weekly via @mocycling
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/all-aboard-the-magic-bus-3974

Brailsford has an easy manner about him this morning. He asks how the week has been and I reply that it’s been illuminating.

“There’s nothing going on here,” he says, answering a question that hasn’t really been asked.

“Absolutely nothing at all. I know that’s not good enough for some people. It’s like the no-needles policy. I think that is absolutely great but how’s it being enforced? I’ve spoken to Pat [McQuaid, UCI president] and I told him the UCI needs to get out here and enforce it. Where are they? They need to be on the buses. There are 20 teams, how hard can it be to have an observer on each bus? That’s your window of opportunity for recovery there, between the finish and the hotel, so get someone on the buses.

“The doctors are scared, you know. Okay, so if you give someone something to go uphill faster, that’s one thing. But very few people are prepared to risk going to prison to make someone go uphill faster.”

So Brailsford maintains complete ignorance but knows that the bus is where doping happens during stage races. Just like the old days of radioactive coke cans and stopping the bus on a quiet road to do a transfusion?

 

[thehog]

Re:

From a 2011 edition of Cycling Weekly via @mocycling
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/all-aboard-the-magic-bus-3974

Brailsford has an easy manner about him this morning. He asks how the week has been and I reply that it’s been illuminating.

“There’s nothing going on here,” he says, answering a question that hasn’t really been asked.

“Absolutely nothing at all. I know that’s not good enough for some people. It’s like the no-needles policy. I think that is absolutely great but how’s it being enforced? I’ve spoken to Pat [McQuaid, UCI president] and I told him the UCI needs to get out here and enforce it. Where are they? They need to be on the buses. There are 20 teams, how hard can it be to have an observer on each bus? That’s your window of opportunity for recovery there, between the finish and the hotel, so get someone on the buses.

“The doctors are scared, you know. Okay, so if you give someone something to go uphill faster, that’s one thing. But very few people are prepared to risk going to prison to make someone go uphill faster.”

So Brailsford maintains complete ignorance but knows that the bus is where doping happens during stage races. Just like the old days of radioactive coke cans and stopping the bus on a quiet road to do a transfusion?

That is incredible. Brailsford really has become Bruyneel. Staggering.

 

[vedrafjord]

To clarify, the article from Cycle Sport August 2011 is a day-by-day embedded shadowing of Sky during the 2011 Dauphiné. Unless the quotes have been moved around, Brailsford made that 'needles on the bus' comment the exact same day Wiggins got his mystery package. It's a real OJ Simpson moment. Thanks to @mocycling for digging it up.

 

[Random Direction]

Re:

From a 2011 edition of Cycling Weekly via @mocycling
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/all-aboard-the-magic-bus-3974

Brailsford has an easy manner about him this morning. He asks how the week has been and I reply that it’s been illuminating.

“There’s nothing going on here,” he says, answering a question that hasn’t really been asked.

“Absolutely nothing at all. I know that’s not good enough for some people. It’s like the no-needles policy. I think that is absolutely great but how’s it being enforced? I’ve spoken to Pat [McQuaid, UCI president] and I told him the UCI needs to get out here and enforce it. Where are they? They need to be on the buses. There are 20 teams, how hard can it be to have an observer on each bus? That’s your window of opportunity for recovery there, between the finish and the hotel, so get someone on the buses.

“The doctors are scared, you know. Okay, so if you give someone something to go uphill faster, that’s one thing. But very few people are prepared to risk going to prison to make someone go uphill faster.”

So Brailsford maintains complete ignorance but knows that the bus is where doping happens during stage races. Just like the old days of radioactive coke cans and stopping the bus on a quiet road to do a transfusion?

To the bolded - given that the rest of the quote is likely proven true, this tells us that Dave gave Brad something to make him go uphill faster, and risked someone (himself, or more likely Cope) going to prison. This greatly raises the probability that there was trafficking some illicit substance between England and the continent. Testo, EPO?

Any journalists, politicians or UKAD members reading would do well to review the 2011 edition of Cycling Weekly and ask some real hard questions about what Dave said (given the current context).

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

I am convinced some in this forum don't understand process - Kenworthy the Head of UKAD should not be seen or heard - His agency has the job to run a professional investigation, to try to find evidence as to what is contained in the mystery package, and if necessarys charge Wiggins and/or others with an Anti-Doping Violation - Kenworthy has no role making press statements and allegations in the press - One of the central tenets of NADOC's is confidentiality and privacy - I am surprised Kenworthy still has a job.

as I understand it he is close to leaving...as I also understand it he is not known for such breaches of protocol

You can only therefore, imagine how annoyed he is at DB.

DB may have pulled the wool over the faithful's eyes, he is now finding he has a slightly tougher job with a slightly more skeptical audience

Irrelevant - UKAD's role is to investigate the 'mystery package' and prosecute if necessary - Anti-Doping is supposed to be private and confidential until a decision is made - It's strange that learned voices in this forum have little or no understanding of ethics.

The UK Government like all Governments have Senate Committees that grill Heads of Government Department usually three or four times a year - This is healthy democracy.

There is a good understanding of ethics. What you don't understand is your governance. Prosecute belongs to criminal law, not anti-doping infractions. Terminology is important along with the supposed "confidentially" clause. Anti-doping chief are at liberty to comment on a public parliamentary committee hearing as had occurred. It has nothing to do with the Investgation mearly that they cannot get sufficient evidence from those whom they are investigating.

You can hardly be surprised UKAD can't find sufficient evidence in this case - Unless the whistleblower has hard documentary evidence in which UKAD could try to find a supply chain, then it will be unresolved - At least its different to Australia when politicians can't get ASADA to answer questions or produce documents - UKAD seems to be more transparent than in Australia.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

I am convinced some in this forum don't understand process - Kenworthy the Head of UKAD should not be seen or heard - His agency has the job to run a professional investigation, to try to find evidence as to what is contained in the mystery package, and if necessarys charge Wiggins and/or others with an Anti-Doping Violation - Kenworthy has no role making press statements and allegations in the press - One of the central tenets of NADOC's is confidentiality and privacy - I am surprised Kenworthy still has a job.

as I understand it he is close to leaving...as I also understand it he is not known for such breaches of protocol

You can only therefore, imagine how annoyed he is at DB.

DB may have pulled the wool over the faithful's eyes, he is now finding he has a slightly tougher job with a slightly more skeptical audience

Irrelevant - UKAD's role is to investigate the 'mystery package' and prosecute if necessary - Anti-Doping is supposed to be private and confidential until a decision is made - It's strange that learned voices in this forum have little or no understanding of ethics.

The UK Government like all Governments have Senate Committees that grill Heads of Government Department usually three or four times a year - This is healthy democracy.

not entirely sure its the clinic's ethics here that is the problem...stonewalling an investigation however....

in any event, this should not be a UKAD investigation in the first place...sending packages about with a basic and legal substance breaches no doping protocol....

just think, a 2 min phone call...no press story, no UKAD and no committee.....now, I wonder why sir dave didn't go down that road

..sir dave, in fact he should be renamed lancealot (gedditt ) was at least smart enough not to lie to the committee however they all know he is being...what is the phrase...economic with the actualitie...ethics indeed

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

Nope again, BC is funded by annual subs paid by amateurs like me, it gets us insurance, race entries, UCI points etc, it obviously also pays some salaries of those who administrate this organization.
If you think UK tax payer has anything to do with funding BC you're delusional....as I wrote earlier (and will repeat for the hard of thinking), you can if you choose to buy a national lottery ticket and fund sport that way but nobody is forced to do this and there's no guarantee which sport your money will go to, it could be BC or it could be UK track and field....the only involvement the government has is some influence on deciding who are the worthy causes (the gym in my village for example was built using lottery money, not tax payers money, not local council money, not regional government money but lottery money that you have a choice about)
If amateurs like me stopped paying out our annual subs to BC it would likely implode, Sky might go on as that's Murdoch's money and a different story.

Tell me Hog, did Cope (as a tax payer funded coach according to you) get a good government pension and superannuation payout when he left that job?....of course he didn't because he wasn't being paid via the UK tax system and wasn't a government employee...like everyone else at Manchester he's reliant on annual membership fees and lottery funding....this is basic stuff....plus some sponsorship obviously although this can vary from individual to individual.

The UK government doesn't have a good record on sports funding, it's pretty much non existent unlike the old East German state run sports academies, what little money the UK government does put into sport goes pretty much to grass roots stuff not mega million projects like team Sky.
The link between BC and Sky has always been there, at the start of Sky Brailsford said openly he would use methods that had worked on the track for BC and try to transfer them to Sky....this is common knowledge and still doesn't involve the use of tax payers money...the money is from British Cycling's burgeoning membership numbers, Lottery funding and Murdoch's vanity in funding Sky.

It may irk some posters that the money seems to flow between organisations but when you have someone like Geraint Thomas or Brad alternating between the track and team Sky you're going to get some crossover of money.
Thankfully sanity prevails in the UK and unlike France where sports doping is actually illegal I can go online now and order peptides, GH, EPO, steroids etc and nothing will happen to me (provided I didn't import, the meds have to come from inside the UK)....the only person breaking any laws may be the supplier unless they are a registered prescriber in which case no problem...the reason?...these PEDs have legitimate medical uses....we're not talking MDMA here.
It's the same with Brads TUE, it may be crap but it's legal crap so deal with it.

Anyway, this is great entertainment so please continue.

yup, so legal is it they can't admit to it until they are brought before a committee.....

let's face facts...we're in LA saddle cream territory here...the story seems benign...but we all know that saddle cream and asthma treatments don't turn you into a GT winner....

behind the froth of this ridiculous story lies a far more serious story for Wiggins...he caned it and got out when he could....he thought, we thought, he had got away with it...

However...........angry bears and the subsequent lies will now slowly and painfully uncover the truth

5 mins could have sorted out all this 'legal' stuff....and yet...here we are

so, as you say...it's great entertainment...long may it continue

So you expect a NADO to start and finalise an investigation into a possible anti-doping violation in 5 minutes - Please ! Let the investigation take its course.

sorry if not clear, see previous response..(although I've reduced it to 2 mins )

i mean that when first approached by the journo, Sir Lancealot phones dr freeman, dr freeman asks for a second to check, he checks, he reports back, sir dave phones back matt lawson..story dies

sorry, story dies if its Fluimucil

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

I am convinced some in this forum don't understand process - Kenworthy the Head of UKAD should not be seen or heard - His agency has the job to run a professional investigation, to try to find evidence as to what is contained in the mystery package, and if necessarys charge Wiggins and/or others with an Anti-Doping Violation - Kenworthy has no role making press statements and allegations in the press - One of the central tenets of NADOC's is confidentiality and privacy - I am surprised Kenworthy still has a job.

as I understand it he is close to leaving...as I also understand it he is not known for such breaches of protocol

You can only therefore, imagine how annoyed he is at DB.

DB may have pulled the wool over the faithful's eyes, he is now finding he has a slightly tougher job with a slightly more skeptical audience

Irrelevant - UKAD's role is to investigate the 'mystery package' and prosecute if necessary - Anti-Doping is supposed to be private and confidential until a decision is made - It's strange that learned voices in this forum have little or no understanding of ethics.

The UK Government like all Governments have Senate Committees that grill Heads of Government Department usually three or four times a year - This is healthy democracy.

not entirely sure its the clinic's ethics here that is the problem...stonewalling an investigation however....

in any event, this should not be a UKAD investigation in the first place...sending packages about with a basic and legal substance breaches no doping protocol....

just think, a 2 min phone call...no press story, no UKAD and no committee.....now, I wonder why sir dave didn't go down that road

..sir dave, in fact he should be renamed lancealot (gedditt ) was at least smart enough not to lie to the committee however they all know he is being...what is the phrase...economic with the actualitie...ethics indeed

Lets discuss the issues and not personalities - Once a whistle-blower makes an allegation then UKAD or any Anti-Doping Authority is duty bound to investigate the issue - My guess is the majority of whistle-blower allegations go nowhere - Process and ethics are very important in Anti-Doping.

Two minute phone call - Yeah a journalist will not write a story because Dave made a 2 minute phone call - You don't seem to understand how Anti-Doping works - Its up to the Anti Doping Agency to prove they have a case in non analytical cases - And I stress non-analytical cases - The alleged offending party doesn't have to prove they are innocent - Unless you accept this important preposition its pointless having a discussion

What you or I think about the case is irrelevant - It's up to UKAD to find evidence - Nothing more or nothing less.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

I am convinced some in this forum don't understand process - Kenworthy the Head of UKAD should not be seen or heard - His agency has the job to run a professional investigation, to try to find evidence as to what is contained in the mystery package, and if necessarys charge Wiggins and/or others with an Anti-Doping Violation - Kenworthy has no role making press statements and allegations in the press - One of the central tenets of NADOC's is confidentiality and privacy - I am surprised Kenworthy still has a job.

as I understand it he is close to leaving...as I also understand it he is not known for such breaches of protocol

You can only therefore, imagine how annoyed he is at DB.

DB may have pulled the wool over the faithful's eyes, he is now finding he has a slightly tougher job with a slightly more skeptical audience

Irrelevant - UKAD's role is to investigate the 'mystery package' and prosecute if necessary - Anti-Doping is supposed to be private and confidential until a decision is made - It's strange that learned voices in this forum have little or no understanding of ethics.

The UK Government like all Governments have Senate Committees that grill Heads of Government Department usually three or four times a year - This is healthy democracy.

not entirely sure its the clinic's ethics here that is the problem...stonewalling an investigation however....

in any event, this should not be a UKAD investigation in the first place...sending packages about with a basic and legal substance breaches no doping protocol....

just think, a 2 min phone call...no press story, no UKAD and no committee.....now, I wonder why sir dave didn't go down that road

..sir dave, in fact he should be renamed lancealot (gedditt ) was at least smart enough not to lie to the committee however they all know he is being...what is the phrase...economic with the actualitie...ethics indeed

Lets discuss the issues and not personalities - Once a whistle-blower makes an allegation then UKAD or any Anti-Doping Authority is duty bound to investigate the issue - My guess is the majority of whistle-blower allegations go nowhere - Process and ethics are very important in Anti-Doping.

Two minute phone call - Yeah a journalist will not write a story because Dave made a 2 minute phone call - You don't seem to understand how Anti-Doping works - Its up to the Anti Doping Agency to prove they have a case in non analytical cases - And I stress non-analytical cases - The alleged offending party doesn't have to prove they are innocent - Unless you accept this important preposition its pointless having a discussion

What you or I think about the case is irrelevant - It's up to UKAD to find evidence - Nothing more or nothing less.

maybe I have the timeline wrong...I thought the whistleblower went to Lawson and not UKAD...then Lawson approached Sir lancealot (offering other stories to keep him quiet apparently)

at what point did UKAD get involved?

...my understanding was that it was after 'the story' and there was only a story because Lawson was not convinced i.e. no Lawson story no UKAD

 

[gillan1969]

from cyclingnews' timeline it seems that the story was the UKAD investigation

which begs the question, why did sir dave think he could keep it quiet..

note to self...must actually read Lawton's output

 

[thehog]

from cyclingnews' timeline it seems that the story was the UKAD investigation

which begs the question, why did sir dave think he could keep it quiet..

note to self...must actually read Lawton's output

Because Sir Dave is used to snuffing out UKAD investigations without anyone knowing about it. Even the ones that we do hear about end up like Hayles or Heano.

 

[gillan1969]

from cyclingnews' timeline it seems that the story was the UKAD investigation

which begs the question, why did sir dave think he could keep it quiet..

note to self...must actually read Lawton's output

Because Sir Dave is used to snuffing out UKAD investigations without anyone knowing about it. Even the ones that we do hear about end up like Hayles or Heano.

indeed...i had naively assumed that because he thought he could keep it quiet nobody else knew....

who would have thunk it

 

[budegan]

Just brilliant:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/jan/13/dave-brailsford-team-sky-cycling-control

 

[thehog]

Re:

Just brilliant:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/jan/13/dave-brailsford-team-sky-cycling-control

LOL! :lol:

It was hard to reconcile the memory of that morning, and of a man so relaxed and full of optimism, with the strange figure giving an interview to BBC TV during Team Sky’s pre-season media day in Majorca this week. There was little surprise, perhaps, in hearing him ignore the nub of Andy Swiss’s questions about the continuing investigation into Bradley Wiggins’s use of therapeutic use exemption certificates. What appeared weird was the way Brailsford accompanied his management-speak with an extraordinary lexicon of very precise physical gestures devised to accompany each phrase, his hands forming a succession of gates, cups, sliding doors and other shapes.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re: Re:

Just brilliant:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/jan/13/dave-brailsford-team-sky-cycling-control

LOL! :lol:

It was hard to reconcile the memory of that morning, and of a man so relaxed and full of optimism, with the strange figure giving an interview to BBC TV during Team Sky’s pre-season media day in Majorca this week. There was little surprise, perhaps, in hearing him ignore the nub of Andy Swiss’s questions about the continuing investigation into Bradley Wiggins’s use of therapeutic use exemption certificates. What appeared weird was the way Brailsford accompanied his management-speak with an extraordinary lexicon of very precise physical gestures devised to accompany each phrase, his hands forming a succession of gates, cups, sliding doors and other shapes.

Corruptio optimi pessima - “the corruption of the best is the worst”
Ivan Illich

 

[doperhopper]

well, what a paradox - one stupid bag and it's all gone... but remember, even mafia megabosses usually do not get caught murdering someone, but rather receive jailtime for minor crimes (taxes, fraud, etc)