David Millar goes after the UCI

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Oct 16, 2010
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ChewbaccaD said:
The audio is garbled, but you should be able to pick up on the contextual clues that show Pat was ANSWERING QUESTIONS. There are many contextual clues to that fact, and then, if you are super duper smart, you can discern the topic of the questions asked by the content of Pat's ANSWERS. If Millar was just making a statement, as you suggest, then Pat would have not ANSWERED anything. He would have said something to the effect of "I disagree with your statement..." or something of the like.

But you keep up your little narrative and pretend Millar just made a PR statement and asked no questions. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see that Pat was answering QUESTIONS, but I guess you don't want to be in that club.:rolleyes:

The point is we don't know.
there are reasons to believe it was PR.
there are reasons to believe it wasn't.
All we can do is try and read into it, which will result in subjective interpretations. yours is as subjective as big ring's.

My subjective opinion: yeah, millar's comments are welcome, but they are also suspiciously opportunistic considering the timing.
And in the meantime JV is on the Sky-is-clean-marginal-gains boat, and that to me is an indirect admission to doping.
 
May 27, 2012
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sniper said:
The point is we don't know.
there are reasons to believe it was PR.
there are reasons to believe it wasn't.
All we can do is try and read into it, which will result in subjective interpretations. yours is as subjective as big ring's.

My subjective opinion: yeah, millar's comments are welcome, but they are also suspiciously opportunistic considering the timing.
And in the meantime JV is on the Sky-is-clean-marginal-gains boat, and that to me is an indirect admission to doping.

Is it really so difficult to understand the timing? Sure, it would have been freaking awesome if someone had done this years ago. But they didn't. Why are they now? Well, as far as I see, there isn't a "they" as much as there are a very few riders and DS's actually saying anything. I don't hear Lefevere making ANY statements. In fact, the list of people NOT saying anything AT ALL is long and illustrious. You guys are suggesting this is what? A PR ploy to make a fortune off of a break-away league? An effort for Garmin to secure more sponsorship money? An effort to support Sky getting more sponsorship money? Maybe he actually gives a f**k that the sport is viewed as a f***ing cesspool of doping, and sees an opportunity to make some positive movement in changing it, which will benefit EVERYONE involved in cycling. This place is a great place for information sometimes, but sometimes it is just a bunch of jaded a******s looking for the next person to p!ss on.

Is Millar the perfect person for this? No, but I don't see any of the riders in a better positing saying f***ing ANYTHING ANYWHERE to Pat the fat f***wad...
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Lots of *****ing and moaning in this forum about Omerta, and when someone breaks it it's called a PR move. Why? Because of who he is, and who he rides for. Garmin and Sky are two teams with a stated anti-doping regime, yet they are the Clinics no.1 enemy.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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ChewbaccaD said:
Is it really so difficult to understand the timing? Sure, it would have been freaking awesome if someone had done this years ago. But they didn't. Why are they now? Well, as far as I see, there isn't a "they" as much as there are a very few riders and DS's actually saying anything. I don't hear Lefevere making ANY statements. In fact, the list of people NOT saying anything AT ALL is long and illustrious. You guys are suggesting this is what? A PR ploy to make a fortune off of a break-away league? An effort for Garmin to secure more sponsorship money? An effort to support Sky getting more sponsorship money? Maybe he actually gives a f**k that the sport is viewed as a f***ing cesspool of doping, and sees an opportunity to make some positive movement in changing it, which will benefit EVERYONE involved in cycling. This place is a great place for information sometimes, but sometimes it is just a bunch of jaded a******s looking for the next person to p!ss on.

Is Millar the perfect person for this? No, but I don't see any of the riders in a better positing saying f***ing ANYTHING ANYWHERE to Pat the fat f***wad...

true story.

but i don't get jv's position in this. he's on the sky-train.
he's publicly proclaiming sky is clean, but how the **** does he know?
clearly, he doesn't know.
yet he's proclaiming it.
why? PR strategy of a selfproclaimed anti-doping DS who is actually a doping DS sounds like the most obvious explanation to me.
does anybody have another explanation? enlighten me please.
If JV were anywere near genuine, he wouldn't be saying with such conviction that sky are clean. He can't know, simple as that.

now, seeing that jv is obviously full of flawed PR ****, what does that make of millar's statements?
 
May 26, 2010
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JimmyFingers said:
Lots of *****ing and moaning in this forum about Omerta, and when someone breaks it it's called a PR move. Why? Because of who he is, and who he rides for. Garmin and Sky are two teams with a stated anti-doping regime, yet they are the Clinics no.1 enemy.

You constantly come in here to moan. Why?

Millar had plenty of opportunities to call out the dopers, apart from Ricco and Peipoli. He didn't. He was mates with Armstrong till USADA blew that out of the water. Now when the winds of change are blowing he hops on the bandwagon.

I am sorry but for some that doesn't wash.

If it mankes others do the same and affects a complete change in the UCI, then great but until that happens i wont be chapeauing Millar.

If you imagine that he rode at the same time as Hamilton and compare their books, it makes Millar look like he was still hiding lots about his career and waht doping was going on. Maybe that has made Millar step up anther level in his so called anti-doping. Maybe he read A secret race and it moved him to do something. Or maybe he is looking head to a career in journalism/commentating and this is his way to get notice.

I reserve my judgement for the moment.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
You constantly come in here to moan. Why?

Millar had plenty of opportunities to call out the dopers, apart from Ricco and Peipoli. He didn't. He was mates with Armstrong till USADA blew that out of the water. Now when the winds of change are blowing he hops on the bandwagon.

I am sorry but for some that doesn't wash.

If it mankes others do the same and affects a complete change in the UCI, then great but until that happens i wont be chapeauing Millar.

If you imagine that he rode at the same time as Hamilton and compare their books, it makes Millar look like he was still hiding lots about his career and waht doping was going on. Maybe that has made Millar step up anther level in his so called anti-doping. Maybe he read A secret race and it moved him to do something. Or maybe he is looking head to a career in journalism/commentating and this is his way to get notice.

I reserve my judgement for the moment.

To the point, succinct, on the head.
McLovin it.
 
May 9, 2009
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ChewbaccaD said:
Is it really so difficult to understand the timing? Sure, it would have been freaking awesome if someone had done this years ago. But they didn't. Why are they now? Well, as far as I see, there isn't a "they" as much as there are a very few riders and DS's actually saying anything. I don't hear Lefevere making ANY statements. In fact, the list of people NOT saying anything AT ALL is long and illustrious. You guys are suggesting this is what? A PR ploy to make a fortune off of a break-away league? An effort for Garmin to secure more sponsorship money? An effort to support Sky getting more sponsorship money? Maybe he actually gives a f**k that the sport is viewed as a f***ing cesspool of doping, and sees an opportunity to make some positive movement in changing it, which will benefit EVERYONE involved in cycling. This place is a great place for information sometimes, but sometimes it is just a bunch of jaded a******s looking for the next person to p!ss on.

Is Millar the perfect person for this? No, but I don't see any of the riders in a better positing saying f***ing ANYTHING ANYWHERE to Pat the fat f***wad...

Calm down. If you can't make your argument without dropping f-bombs and getting emotional, then you have a pretty weak argument. Are you going to fly off the handle like this when an opposing attorney makes an argument that you don't like?
 
Nov 29, 2009
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David Millar

Just listen to the whole of the Elite road race with the BBC, and have to say what a wonderful job Dave Millar did, probably the best commentating have heard on cycling on the TV...
Good job well done David...
 
May 9, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
If it mankes others do the same and affects a complete change in the UCI, then great but until that happens i wont be chapeauing Millar.

Agreed. I'm cautiously optimistic that we will look back at 2012 and view it as a turning point. If it turns out that ultimately Millar plays a key role in bringing change, then great, and I might change my opinion of him, or at least this aspect of him. But until then, I'll reserve judgement.
 
May 9, 2009
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JimmyFingers said:
Lots of *****ing and moaning in this forum about Omerta, and when someone breaks it it's called a PR move. Why?

Millar isn't breaking omertà by asking Pat some questions at a press conference. Breaking omertà is naming names, dates, places, and methods to a neutral party.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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haven't closely followed this thread and assume big ring or somebody else has already posted this:

http://de.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/millar-wiggins-hesjedal-sauber-075533955.html

Reading into Millar's words, I'm reading a lot of BS and hypocricy.
Now he somehow mysteriously 'knows' that Brad is clean.
How the **** does he know?
Can Millar and JV pleaze stop saying Sky and Brad are clean? There is no way of knowing, simple as that, so saying stuff like that sounds fabulously hypocrit. (almost like an admission to doping more than like a stance on anti-doping)
Perhaps that's why some still like Riis better than JV.
Riis at leasn't isn't holding us for complete fools.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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haven't closely followed this thread and assume big ring or somebody else has already posted this:

http://de.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/millar-wiggins-hesjedal-sauber-075533955.html

Now Millar somehow mysteriously 'knows' that Brad is clean.
How the **** does he know?
Can Millar and JV pleaze stop saying Sky and Brad are clean? There is no way of knowing, simple as that, so saying stuff like that sounds more like a pro-doping stance than anything else.

Perhaps that's why some still like Riis better than JV.
Riis at leasn't isn't holding us for complete fools.

Are JV, Brailsford, Sky and Millar the future of cycling once Phat is gone?
Scary thought.
 
May 3, 2010
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A cynical take

Look all around you. It isn't just Millar who is changing position. Look at how riders and the media are repositioning themselves.

Just as Millar is suddenly growing a set to ask questions, so are various journalists such as CN, the clowns at AP etc

The cynical view is that they sense which way the wind is blowing. They sense that the UCI, McQuaid etc are on shaking ground and getting ever more shaky as the days get closer to the USADA report coming out.

It is easy to view this as cynical opportunism by Millar and sections of the cycling press, as bandwagon jumping.

Lampooning McQuaid and Verbruggen these days is like shooting fish in a barrel. The test is really questioning the new 'sacred cows' such as Sky, British cycling, Garmin, BMC etc

It isn't as if Millar has suddenly remembered that the UCI was complicit in creating a doping culture. Where was he 5 years ago? Where was he when Landis came out with his allegations? When Landis for example needed support from current riders where was Millar then? Now, all of a sudden with the USADA report due soon, Millar is suddenly finding his voice. The same can be said of the cycling press - where were they 5 or 10 years ago when Kimmage and Walsh were ploughing their lonely furrow?

In the end, you can take two views on 'why now'. Either Millar has genuinely found his voice and his belief and that it is only because he is towards the end of his career and the power of McQuaid and Verbruggen is waning that he can speak freely.

Or you can say that this is cynical opportunism from Millar and others - they realise that no one will really remember their past actions and praise for Armstrong as long as their most recent action is anti-Armstrong and anti-McQuaid. Millar has always been a politician and an expert at saying what the audience wants to hear - anyone who can remember his first articles when he started out in the late 1990s can remember that this has always been how he has conducted himself in public. This incident re-enforces the view that he is 'anti-doping campaigner David Millar'. Is it Millar positioning himself for a role in a post McQuaid cycling world? Hard to tell. It certainly doesn't do his public profile any harm. His comments about Armstrong were critical but also measured in a way that are unlikely to draw the ire of the few remaining Armstrong true-believers, especially when compared to his comments about Landis, or Ricco for example.

There is an old joke about you can tell how fast a revolution has fallen to the counter-revolution when the skinny revolutionaries stop appearing on TV and fat men in suits re-appear. The cynical would say that what we have here is members of the old guard re-positioning themselves and dressing themselves up as revolutionaries.

And this is the ultimate question about the future of cycling if McQuaid and the current UCI does fall, will the new era of cycling be led by genuine anti-dopers who crave clean racing such as Ashenden, Schenk, Kimmage etc, or will it be led by people for whom anti-doping pr is key to a marketing strategy but are happy to carry on as before with 'you pretend to ride clean and we'll pretend to test you'.

Ultimately, there are two views on Millar - either he is an opportunistic fellow-traveller, or he is a genuine revolutionary. Which it is hard to tell given his previous actions.
 
Jul 7, 2012
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Mrs John Murphy said:
It isn't as if Millar has suddenly remembered that the UCI was complicit in creating a doping culture. Where was he 5 years ago? Where was he when Landis came out with his allegations? When Landis for example needed support from current riders where was Millar then?

He was coming out with stuff like this:

Fallout continues as cycling chief and Garmin member blast Landis

Garmin-Transitions' David Millar, who came back in 2006 from a two-year doping ban after admitting his guilt, is furious at Landis.

"He's reached the end of the road and I just find it disgusting," said Millar from his home training base in Girona, Spain. "He's a liar and a cheat and he has nothing left in cycling so he just wants to burn the house down.

"We're doing so much positive stuff, every single member of our team. We love our sport and we care deeply about it and believe in it and Matt White especially. He's one of my dearest friends and the way he treasures the young Australians on the team and the young guys and even myself, there's no other director like him. To have his name muddied like this is not fair."

After Landis' ban four years ago, Millar said he tried calling him to give advice on how to return to the sport. He never received a return call.

"If he had stood up and manned up four years ago, he'd be racing the Tour de France now," Millar said. "He'd have a different book out. He'd have not lost a penny. He'd be admired by young people. He would have a different life ahead of him. He'd be in a decent mental state. He'd be sober.

"And he'd be married."

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15175682

Still, his change of heart is more than welcome, if only others would follow his lead, especially his team mate and current 'patron' of the peloton, Bradley Wiggins.
 
Robert21 said:
He was coming out with stuff like this:



http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15175682

Still, his change of heart is more than welcome, if only others would follow his lead, especially his team mate and current 'patron' of the peloton, Bradley Wiggins.

Good 'ole Dave. Praising Matt White as "Whitey" was sending those young Aussie lads he cares so much about to Del Morel.

Whitey implementing the trade he learnt at Disco at Garmin.

And what's with the personal attack on Landis? Now Miller is riding the wave that Floyd started.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Mrs John Murphy said:
Look all around you. It isn't just Millar who is changing position. Look at how riders and the media are repositioning themselves.

Just as Millar is suddenly growing a set to ask questions, so are various journalists such as CN, the clowns at AP etc

The cynical view is that they sense which way the wind is blowing. They sense that the UCI, McQuaid etc are on shaking ground and getting ever more shaky as the days get closer to the USADA report coming out.

It is easy to view this as cynical opportunism by Millar and sections of the cycling press, as bandwagon jumping.

Lampooning McQuaid and Verbruggen these days is like shooting fish in a barrel. The test is really questioning the new 'sacred cows' such as Sky, British cycling, Garmin, BMC etc

It isn't as if Millar has suddenly remembered that the UCI was complicit in creating a doping culture. Where was he 5 years ago? Where was he when Landis came out with his allegations? When Landis for example needed support from current riders where was Millar then? Now, all of a sudden with the USADA report due soon, Millar is suddenly finding his voice. The same can be said of the cycling press - where were they 5 or 10 years ago when Kimmage and Walsh were ploughing their lonely furrow?

In the end, you can take two views on 'why now'. Either Millar has genuinely found his voice and his belief and that it is only because he is towards the end of his career and the power of McQuaid and Verbruggen is waning that he can speak freely.

Or you can say that this is cynical opportunism from Millar and others - they realise that no one will really remember their past actions and praise for Armstrong as long as their most recent action is anti-Armstrong and anti-McQuaid. Millar has always been a politician and an expert at saying what the audience wants to hear - anyone who can remember his first articles when he started out in the late 1990s can remember that this has always been how he has conducted himself in public. This incident re-enforces the view that he is 'anti-doping campaigner David Millar'. Is it Millar positioning himself for a role in a post McQuaid cycling world? Hard to tell. It certainly doesn't do his public profile any harm. His comments about Armstrong were critical but also measured in a way that are unlikely to draw the ire of the few remaining Armstrong true-believers, especially when compared to his comments about Landis, or Ricco for example.

There is an old joke about you can tell how fast a revolution has fallen to the counter-revolution when the skinny revolutionaries stop appearing on TV and fat men in suits re-appear. The cynical would say that what we have here is members of the old guard re-positioning themselves and dressing themselves up as revolutionaries.

And this is the ultimate question about the future of cycling if McQuaid and the current UCI does fall, will the new era of cycling be led by genuine anti-dopers who crave clean racing such as Ashenden, Schenk, Kimmage etc, or will it be led by people for whom anti-doping pr is key to a marketing strategy but are happy to carry on as before with 'you pretend to ride clean and we'll pretend to test you'.

Ultimately, there are two views on Millar - either he is an opportunistic fellow-traveller, or he is a genuine revolutionary. Which it is hard to tell given his previous actions.

+1 good post
 
Mrs John Murphy said:
And this is the problem in working out where Millar really stands on the issue of doping.

"Anti-doping" - (c) 2012 David Miller

He don't want anyone else cashing in on his gig with a better and more truthful story than his own.
 
May 27, 2012
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sniper said:
true story.

but i don't get jv's position in this. he's on the sky-train.
he's publicly proclaiming sky is clean, but how the **** does he know?
clearly, he doesn't know.
yet he's proclaiming it.
why? PR strategy of a selfproclaimed anti-doping DS who is actually a doping DS sounds like the most obvious explanation to me.
does anybody have another explanation? enlighten me please.

If JV were anywere near genuine, he wouldn't be saying with such conviction that sky are clean. He can't know, simple as that.

now, seeing that jv is obviously full of flawed PR ****, what does that make of millar's statements?

Yea, Occam's razor: He wants a cleaner sport.

Your singular suggestion (because you make clear that there is no other possible explanation) is that he is a doping DS who is trying to hide he is a doping DS? Mmmmkay, I guess that is ONE interpretation. I find it interesting as this actually makes JV worse than Armstrong in relation to doping because not only is he a former doper now running a team-wide doping program, but he is super Dr. Evil because he is now coming out as staunchly anti-doping at a time when he can use the doping case of Armstrong to lend further legitimacy to his pitch on anti-doping, which is actually just a ploy for him to keep being able to dope his riders and win lots of s**t. I'm sure he sits around and prefaces every sentence with "Mwahahaha"...Seems legit...:rolleyes: <-shouldn't need rollyeyes, but what the f**k, right?
 
May 27, 2012
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trailrunner said:
Calm down. If you can't make your argument without dropping f-bombs and getting emotional, then you have a pretty weak argument. Are you going to fly off the handle like this when an opposing attorney makes an argument that you don't like?

Yea, I am capable of differentiating the applicable level of discourse used on an intertubes forum and a court room. Thanks though.
 
May 27, 2012
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And don't get me wrong, I am not jumping on the "David Millar is the greatest doping crusader since nobody" bandwagon...in fact, I don't see that bandwagon, but hey, somebody probably wants to start a blog or something about it..

What I object to is this massive conspiracy being banded about here involving motives of people in a position to actually do something about a cleaner sport.

Are they doing it the way I would? Certainly not. There aren't nearly enough expletives for my satisfaction. I mean, Millar didn't call Pat a "fat f**king f**kweasel taintstain of a human." In my book, that makes Millar a f**king p***y...but I digress

Moving the needle (pun intended) in the right direction is a good thing. There are millions of dollars at stake here. If you guys haven't figured out the big boy world yet, let me hip you to something: When that is the case, people are much more measured in their actions and responses. Shocker!!!! I would love to have had all of this happen a decade and a half ago, but it didn't. But I see no reason to give Millar a golden shower in the face because he spoke provocatively to Pat. None.
 
May 3, 2010
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It comes down to whether or not you think Millar really wants a cleaner sport, or is just saying it because it is expedient to say so.

Do you trust David Millar enough to take his words at face-value and as legitimate, honest and truthful expressions of his thoughts?

I can understand why many people do not trust Millar based on his previous actions/words. I can also understand why many people are prepared to believe him.

I'll take a watching brief on this one thanks before declaring Millar to be either the true christ or the anti-christ.