Debating the True Believers *if you must

[Cloxxki]

Witch hunt? The way I see it he was welcomed to step into the fire all by himself. He proceeded to do so, and failed to light up. Witch hunt is such a nasty word, and not very respectful to of the witches previously hunted, 100% of which (whom?) lit up just fine. Wicked evil warlock intervention would be slightly more suiting.

 

[thehog]

My understanding from doctors is that, if it's legitimate doping, the male body has a way of shutting that down right before the blood test.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Good luck with this, but at this point if someone is stupid enough to still believe Armstrong didn't dope, pointing out facts is only going to intensity that belief. Because at the end of the day, you really can't fix stupid:

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/

LOL, sadly I know 2 people right now, who are still card carrying members of the LA fanclub. The same old responses too:" witch hunt", "never tested positive...blah blah blah". I like them both, they're both good people, just dont "get it" about Lancey one ball. I've tried a few times to say "well, they have evidence", doesn't seem to work.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

"They" said it was a "witch hunt" driven by an establishment that resented his arrogance, his brusqueness, and his remorselessness.

"They" said there was no material evidence directly linking him to the alleged offences.

"They" said the testimony of each and every one of the prosecution's witnesses was tainted either by their "history" with the defendant or by their being an acknowledged liar.

"They" rejoiced that nothing came from the criminal charges because they were (and are) convinced of his innocence.


Have I just described:

A) The USDA/USADA proceedings against Lance Armstrong, or
B) The trial of OJ Simpson for the murders of Ron Goldman & Nicole Simpson

 

[Tinman]

The question I've struggled to answer convincingly is "so why did the Fed drop their case?"

 

[thehog]

The question I've struggled to answer convincingly is "so why did the Fed drop their case?"

Who said they dropped their case?

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

[/IMG]
B) The trial of OJ Simpson for the murders of Ron Goldman & Nicole Simpson

...............................................

 

[Mr.DNA]

In the past couple of weeks I've been approached by several co-workers who know I follow cycling and are interested in my opinion of the L.A. affair. I've found a good approach is to say, "Imagine Lance never had anything to do with a cancer charity. He's just a 7-time Tour de France winner with no ties to 'cancer awareness' who is accused of being the ringleader of a doping conspiracy."

"Okay."

"Now do you think he's guilty?"

"Oh gee..."

 

[Tinman]

Who said they dropped their case?

I hear you. But that's how it has come across via the LA PR machine to the masses. The Fed seems to have more credibility to them than a local doping agency with a one man vendetta.

 

[ebandit]

home run

I hear you. But that's how it has come across via the LA PR machine to the masses. The Fed seems to have more credibility to them than a local doping agency with a one man vendetta.

pr spin

but the truth is the feds case was shelved

to allow slam dunk by usada

lance has less credibility than ............................

 

[Paco_P]

My understanding from doctors is that, if it's legitimate doping, the male body has a way of shutting that down right before the blood test.

^^This needs more love.

 

[zigmeister]

Who said they dropped their case?

Your beloved Cyclingnews.com online writers say this even as of today:

"The federal investigation was closed in February 2012, taking no action."

And you don't need to play semantics. Close, dropped...whatever the language, they gave up the ghost.

 

[ebandit]

blah blah blah

Your beloved Cyclingnews.com online writers say this even as of today:

"The federal investigation was closed in February 2012, taking no action."

And you don't need to play semantics. Close, dropped...whatever the language, they gave up the ghost.

more empty rhetoric

lance is banned

the evidence against him was such that he chose not to contest...
...........guilty as charged

 

[Tinman]

The question I've struggled to answer convincingly is "so why did the Fed drop their case?"

So the quesion remains: how to best answer this to the LA remaining fans - even though recent Usada and Tyler book press is doing a great job taking down the LA messiah myth.

There is also an interesting conspiracy theory to be confirmed about influence from higher up to drop the fed case. And via who and why.

 

[LauraLyn]

Who said they dropped their case?

The Feds did "drop"/"close" the case.

The question is why. Certainly not for lack of evidence. Probably because they did not believe they could get a conviction. In addition, there was certainly political pressure (and it is not hard to guess from whom that came).

While the case is "closed", it is not "over and out". It can be reopened.

So as far as the Fed case goes: in the long run there is still a bit of a wait and see.

 

[LauraLyn]

Common arguments seem to be:

1. USADA has no authority to strip Lance of Tours [no discussion of whether he actually doped or not]

2. Lance never tested positive [again no mention of whether he actually doped or not]

1. Simply not true. The TdF wins have been stripped (along with all the other winnings). Nothing can ever change that.

2. Yes, there were positive tests. But you cannot convince people of this. So why bother? If 1 is true, 2 is no longer relevant. (This is like saying: "Oh the judge convicted that guy of murder but I never saw the gun." True, and you never will unless you were [prior to the conviction] in the court room. [And in this case court never happened.] Still the guy is going to jail. [And Lance has lost his titles.])

 

[zigmeister]

more empty rhetoric

lance is banned

the evidence against him was such that he chose not to contest...
...........guilty as charged

Well done on that response about you being wrong. Deflect and say nannie nannie boo boo.

 

[ebandit]

?

Well done on that response about you being wrong. Deflect and say nannie nannie boo boo.

empty rhetoric for children

lance is banned

the evidence against him was such that he chose not to contest.....
........guilty as charged

 

[LauraLyn]

Maybe this is something for the ex-Soviet believers:

http://www.warsawvoice.pl/WVpage/pages/article.php/25186/article

"The tough justice meted out last week to Lance Armstrong is a reminder that no one should be above the law – not even state oil company executives."

It is a bit of a stretch, but in Poland the news is often written this way.