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Mar 10, 2009
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Is di Luca's performance starting to look a bit over the top to anyone else? Think about it: he's hammering on back-to-back days and not showing any fatigue. Did anything like this happen last year at the Giro? I'm thinking Selle, maybe? If he does really well at the coming time trial, then it's a safe bet that he's had a vein opened recently.
 
I think Di Luca's riding on guts right now, and trying to take advantage of terrain that suits him. The fact that he lost a sprint to Menchov indicates that these climbs ARE taking a lot out of him.

I'm glad he's firing on all cylinders rights now, compared to the rest of the riders who seem to be waiting until the time trial or the last week's mountains. He's really done the maglia rosa proud. (And he's dead come Thursday, and will only lose more time in the final week, I think, having fired his canon so early and often. Still, it's been a great show, and I'm rooting for him.)
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Sheltowee said:
Is di Luca's performance starting to look a bit over the top to anyone else? Think about it: he's hammering on back-to-back days and not showing any fatigue. Did anything like this happen last year at the Giro? I'm thinking Selle, maybe? If he does really well at the coming time trial, then it's a safe bet that he's had a vein opened recently.
I think he's back to "normal". He was great in 2007. Got busted last year and faced extra scrutiny. LPR hasn't been part of the biopassport.
 
Call me naive or w.e you want, but I try not to worry about every single performance. What is the point of watching or loving cycling if you can't appreciate anything you see? Just do what I do; accept it for what it is. Then if the rider eventually proves to have been doped, you have every right to feel disappointed/outraged/whatever. They're innocent until proven guilty in my eyes.
 
Apr 3, 2009
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mr. tibbs said:
I think Di Luca's riding on guts right now, and trying to take advantage of terrain that suits him. The fact that he lost a sprint to Menchov indicates that these climbs ARE taking a lot out of him.

I'm glad he's firing on all cylinders rights now, compared to the rest of the riders who seem to be waiting until the time trial or the last week's mountains. He's really done the maglia rosa proud. (And he's dead come Thursday, and will only lose more time in the final week, I think, having fired his canon so early and often. Still, it's been a great show, and I'm rooting for him.)
Couldn't agree more. Also, for LPR and Di Luca in particular this is (next to the Worlds) undoubtably the biggest race of the season. No Tour or Ardennes classics for him, so it's no surprise that he gives it all in this Giro, his home tour. He's 150% motivated, while he's up against riders that are racing with the Tour in the back of their heads (Menchov, Leipheimer, Sastre, even Rogers). That makes all the difference at this point. And I agree he is likely to have a fallback in the last week, although I'm confident he'll still be in the running for a podium spot.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Sheltowee said:
Is di Luca's performance starting to look a bit over the top to anyone else? Think about it: he's hammering on back-to-back days and not showing any fatigue. Did anything like this happen last year at the Giro? I'm thinking Selle, maybe? If he does really well at the coming time trial, then it's a safe bet that he's had a vein opened recently.

If DiLuca is riding on guts and grinta alone (and not without the help of Dr Santuccione or some other medical stand in) then I'm Gloria Estefan.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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Sheltowee said:
Is di Luca's performance starting to look a bit over the top to anyone else? Think about it: he's hammering on back-to-back days and not showing any fatigue. Did anything like this happen last year at the Giro? I'm thinking Selle, maybe? If he does really well at the coming time trial, then it's a safe bet that he's had a vein opened recently.

To be honest I think most of the GC contenders are doped to some extent.
Those that aren't doped right now (IMHO Cunego), were in the past.
Is Di Luca doped? Probably. Is he not showing any fatigue? I would disagree here. It's just that in the climbs that we have in this year's Giro, Di Luca is unlikely to crack. It takes a Mortirolo, Stelvio or a Zoncolan to break Di Luca (and a Basso/Gibo on top form or maybe a Ricco/Sella on top form).

I think he'll lose just enough time in the Rome TT, which will cost him the overall and maybe even a podium place. Of all the guys in contention right now, I'd like to see Sastre or Di Luca take the GC. I like Di Luca's attacking style.
 
May 15, 2009
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Merckx said:
Call me naive or w.e you want, but I try not to worry about every single performance. What is the point of watching or loving cycling if you can't appreciate anything you see? Just do what I do; accept it for what it is. Then if the rider eventually proves to have been doped, you have every right to feel disappointed/outraged/whatever. They're innocent until proven guilty in my eyes.

Although I unfortunately can't always quite bring myself to believe that they're all innocent until proven guilty, I agree that if I had to question every exceptional performance then I'd find no enjoyment in following pro cycling.

Unfortunately however, when you adopt this attitude you feel really cheated if it does turn out to be an illegitimate victory. I felt a bit of a fool for enjoying Landis's solo effort to Morzine so much.
 
Tend to think like Merckx on this one. I certainly have my suspicions, but without some evidence I don't generally like to make accusations.

Haven't seen anything otherworldly, just a great performance so far. Now, if he wins the TT...
 
May 20, 2009
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I love the superhuman attacks on mountains. It's the most exciting moment in the sport for me. Unfortunately we won't see any more of these as the doped riders have learned not to call attention to themselves with highly dramatic flourishes such as we saw on every climb in the 2008 Giro. Mountain attacks causing enormous time gaps, in the style of Pantani, Riis, Virenque, Armstrong on Sestriere in 99, Ricco and Sella in 08, today simply call attention for targeted testing. The doped rider today must play a much more conservative game of small, incremental gains. Unfortunately, as a fan I haven't yet learned how to appreciate this style, and liked watching the spectacular attacks in the epo years much better.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Merckx said:
Call me naive or w.e you want, but I try not to worry about every single performance. What is the point of watching or loving cycling if you can't appreciate anything you see? Just do what I do; accept it for what it is. Then if the rider eventually proves to have been doped, you have every right to feel disappointed/outraged/whatever. They're innocent until proven guilty in my eyes.

Why would anyone be disappointed or outraged if DiLuca tests positive? Whatever...that emotion I could understand.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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The way he rode at the end of stage 10, after 250km at close to 50kph, certainly raises eyebrows. To me he didn't look fatigued at all at the finish.

Also, I know that descent was techincal, but a guy that is no taller than 5'6" and probably 130 lbs soaking wet shouldn't be able to pull that kind of gap on a downhill against a group of bigger, more powerful riders.

I'm skeptical (and not only of him). As someone else mentioned, probably the only rider I have any real confidence of being clean is Cunego.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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merckx said:
call me naive or w.e you want, but i try not to worry about every single performance. What is the point of watching or loving cycling if you can't appreciate anything you see? Just do what i do; accept it for what it is. Then if the rider eventually proves to have been doped, you have every right to feel disappointed/outraged/whatever. They're innocent until proven guilty in my eyes.

+1000000000000
 
Sheltowee said:
Is di Luca's performance starting to look a bit over the top to anyone else? Think about it: he's hammering on back-to-back days and not showing any fatigue. Did anything like this happen last year at the Giro? I'm thinking Selle, maybe? If he does really well at the coming time trial, then it's a safe bet that he's had a vein opened recently.


Last year's Giro wasn't on his favor, due to the insane amount of mountain stages, which he has always had hard time keeping the phase with the pure climbers-but nonetheless he showed the same explosiveness and ambition as his current performance. His weakness is that his level fades in the last week- which he has to be careful-specially with two hard mountain stages near the end of the Giro...
 
It's been his kind of racing so far...he has taken advantage of those that are playing more of a waiting game to put some points on the board. The ITT will shake things up and I think we will see more from those that will be on the podium.

I hope Di Luca is still in the frame come Roma - he has done his best to light a fire under the race and made it great to watch.

As for doping...I'll just say I think we have a way to go before GT contenders are racing on 'bread and water' :rolleyes:
 
I'm not naive, I'm actually a bit jaded at times and as anti-doping as anyone, but you still have to have hope, you still have to believe that things are getting better, and that the reins are tighter so that we're not seeing super human performances with guys doped to the gills with no restraint, while clean riders can't even finish. Cunego says he is riding clean, and his words rang true to me. He's in 17th place, about 5 minutes back. Had this been 1992-2004, he probably wouldn't have made it past Stage 5. So there is hope. This doesn't mean everyone above him is doping, only that I think the peloton is cleaner, and there's a very good chance, despite what Big Boat insists, that there are many more riders out there making it clean, quite possible some ahead of him. Not all, no, I'm sure many more are doping. But until some serious, or legit, accusations are leveled at DiLuca, I'm going to support him and cheer on his gutsy performance.

Keep in mind the mountains stages this year haven't been that brutal, at all. Alpe d'Suisi was just one long climb that wasn't very steep, and yesterday's stage was just l-o-n-g, with one big climb over the easy side of Sestriere where about 90 riders stayed together. He attacked on the shorter climbs after that, and really, made his break on a descent.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Sheltowee said:
Is di Luca's performance starting to look a bit over the top to anyone else? Think about it: he's hammering on back-to-back days and not showing any fatigue. Did anything like this happen last year at the Giro? I'm thinking Selle, maybe? If he does really well at the coming time trial, then it's a safe bet that he's had a vein opened recently.

Tous dope! Dont be a sucker. Do kids watch WWF without knowing the actor's are juiced? NOW WAY! I knew about steroids as an 8 year old. Its parent's job to teach their kids what is legitimate and what is not.

Whats happening to society?
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Okay. Lets just say there is only 5 guys that are doping. Those SAME 5 guys would have won every single race this year! Okay, I can say that Ricco doped without getting booted here >>>

Ricco had maybe 6.2 watts per kilo at FTP (all out 1-hour TT watts.) If he was clean he'd barely have 5.3. With 5.3 he's finish below 100th place! Thats atleast 13% less power, maybe 20% depending on how doped he was. With a 20% power advantage on other talented riders he would dominate! past Tour winners had a full 10% less power than his! Ricco would have easily won Paris Roubaix if everybody was clean.

There's no way in hell everybody is so damn close right now! NO WAY! One guy blood doping with his own blood would have won solo by 20 minutes.
 
May 20, 2009
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Are the stage winners and GC leader not subject to the same tests that they are in the Tour? If so he would have been busted by now.I feel the route has so far suited his style of riding, the time trial tomorrow will be the acid test.

I think he has a decent chance of winning it.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
despite what Big Boat insists, that there are many more riders out there making it clean, quite possible some ahead of him. Not all, no, I'm sure many more are doping. But until some serious, or legit, accusations are leveled at DiLuca, I'm going to support him and cheer on his gutsy performance.

Keep in mind the mountains stages this year haven't been that brutal, at all. Alpe d'Suisi was just one long climb that wasn't very steep, and yesterday's stage was just l-o-n-g, with one big climb over the easy side of Sestriere where about 90 riders stayed together. He attacked on the shorter climbs after that, and really, made his break on a descent.

BRO, MORE PROOF THEY ARE ALL JACKED!!

A clean rider racing blood doped riders will be dropped and time cut on a super hard stage! Have you ever tried racing guys that are jacked in so much as a flat criterium? Its unreal, you dont have an chance in BLOODY HELL (pun intendend!!) In a mountain stage you'd be 45 minutes + behind atleast. Maybe more. Watch this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLiusWwYXIo

I already explained how they are STILL doing it. There is millions of $$$ on the line! Are they NOT going to do it and loose 45 minutes to somebody that does? No way, no way Alp. Lance even wants more money, everybody does! Money and sex rule people's instinct.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Cunego says he is riding clean, and his words rang true to me. He's in 17th place, about 5 minutes back. Had this been 1992-2004, he probably wouldn't have made it past Stage 5.

David Moncoutie finished 13th in the 2002 Tour de France. He wasn't doping. Cunego in 17th this year doesn't make me think things have changed much.
 
So BigB, even after what he said, and riding at least a notch under what one might have expected, you still think Cunego is on the juice and lying through his teeth about being clean?

Yes, I've seen that video. You know I'm well aware of Lemond's history, and I've made many posts on it.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
I'm not naive, I'm actually a bit jaded at times and as anti-doping as anyone, but you still have to have hope, you still have to believe that things are getting better, and that the reins are tighter so that we're not seeing super human performances with guys doped to the gills with no restraint, while clean riders can't even finish. Cunego says he is riding clean, and his words rang true to me. He's in 17th place, about 5 minutes back. Had this been 1992-2004, he probably wouldn't have made it past Stage 5. So there is hope. This doesn't mean everyone above him is doping, only that I think the peloton is cleaner, and there's a very good chance, despite what Big Boat insists, that there are many more riders out there making it clean, quite possible some ahead of him. Not all, no, I'm sure many more are doping. But until some serious, or legit, accusations are leveled at DiLuca, I'm going to support him and cheer on his gutsy performance.

Keep in mind the mountains stages this year haven't been that brutal, at all. Alpe d'Suisi was just one long climb that wasn't very steep, and yesterday's stage was just l-o-n-g, with one big climb over the easy side of Sestriere where about 90 riders stayed together. He attacked on the shorter climbs after that, and really, made his break on a descent.

I wouldn't trust Cunego if it wasn't for his previous climbing prowess. Suddenly last year he lost it. I agree, he looks clean, or at least cleaner than most. What's with the Garmin boys though? Some of those performances are really mediocre.
Di Luca-we agree here as well. He attacked where we know he's strongest, short, steep climbs. Guts and aggression. Doesn't mean he's clean.
Would like to think he might be. Not much faith in the pros anymore:(

I guess we'll see in the next 10 days or so.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
So BigB, even after what he said, and riding at least a notch under what one might have expected, you still think Cunego is on the juice and lying through his teeth about being clean?

Yes, I've seen that video. You know I'm well aware of Lemond's history, and I've made many posts on it.

Stop trying to believe them... I never saw Cunego's power files or his total blood volume posted up taken by a hospital! Hospital's have no incentives and nothing but standards. Bro, how come Lance's tester is no longer part of his hospital, how come they fired his *** from the testing project?

When doped riders are caught, they can never ride the same way again or all the fans will know they are doped. They try to stick to support roles and other more minor positions. But they are still doped Alp. All the ponies at the top are doped up. Cunego might feel that winning the 2004 Giro makes him a doper in the public's eyes. OR, he want to "slow down" a bit as he "goes clean."

Be Clean Cunego and be dropped on the first major climb in Europe! and be time cut perhaps...

You see with the Lemond vid one thing the fans believe is his excuse about his muscular degeneration. Which is false, and Lemond goes on to admit he simply couldnt keep up and there was no mucles disease, simple overtraining from trying to keep up with guys that are jacked. And there's another vid where he admits this. You see, Lemond had a huge ego and probably the highest undoped (or un red cell jacked) V02 max in history, a 92.5 and possible higher in season (maybe as high as 95.) To me, he quoted it as 95. Anyways, he thought with this he could race talented doped riders on EPO. Which is idiotic, you cannot.

Alp, when somebody has 20% more power than you your 5 minute V02 max repeats are their 75 minute TT power, maybe 90 minute power! Thats no exaggeration, with 12% more power at a 50% crit its 5 minute repeats to 60 minute power. Thats not even in a super responder like Lance. NOW, When Lemond tried to race he says he would go until he blew up. It would be 10 minutes- to 15 minutes every time when the hammer went down and he was dropped. This was from a group of about 50-75 guys. When Indurain unleashed his TRUE power on the final climb I'm dead certain if Lemond was teleported there he would not have lasted with Indurain for even for one all out 3 minute effort on a 40-50 minute final climb. He would have blown after 2 minutes... Lance will come into this Tour de France with similar power values he and Indurain, Riis, Pantani had before and Gustov erik larsson already had close to these values at the 2009 Tour of California to get a 3rd in the TT stage.

You think Basso is not changed his racing style? Ha! When he wins the Giro or Tour again everybody will know though. How come that nice guy Cunego is constantly touted as clean despite the fact that Basso has slowed down? Some still label Basso as a doper despite going slower? Doesnt make since does it, its inconsistent. Not to say either are doped right? You clean right Cunego?