Di2 9070

[Fiemme]

Looks like Shimano have changed to a four bolt crankset. Wonder if they will continue manufacturing five bolt chainrings for spare parts.

Another reason not to use Shimano.

 

[dsut4392]

Looks like Shimano have changed to a four bolt crankset. Wonder if they will continue manufacturing five bolt chainrings for spare parts.

Another reason not to use Shimano.

Considering it's still easy to get Shimano 7800 series chainrings (a groupset released in 2004), that's a pretty silly reason not to use Shimano.

If you're really concerned, wait a year or two - if Ultegra and 105 follow suit with the same 4-bolt configuration, you can be pretty sure there will be spares available (whether Shimano or aftermarket) for decades.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Praxis is already making spare chainrings for DA7900.

 

[JA.Tri]

For the most part the upgrades "thumbs up". I hope the Ultegra Di (V2) is out sooner (rather than later). As it is I will probably wait for it or 105 (provided they have similar features).

Will be sad to go to Ultegra (or 105) from DA but I cannot justify the $$$$.

 

[Chuck Armstrong]

Looks like Shimano have changed to a four bolt crankset. Wonder if they will continue manufacturing five bolt chainrings for spare parts.

Another reason not to use Shimano.

Whether you're a fan or not Shimano continue to revolutionize bike componentry, whilst Campag was seen as THE groupset in the past if it wasn't for shimano we would still have down tube (friction) shifters and the like! Campag held on with ergopower (for me the clumsiest gear system ever, that's when I switched to Shimano) then took off with their 'carbon everything' oh how original........ I was scared shimano would go the same route when they brought out an ugly carbon chainset but thankfully they didn't mass produce! Carbon STI levers are more than enough thank you!

Now campag are playing catch-up (again) with electronic gears.......... I do wish that campag were better but the last time they came up with something shimano didn't have was 11 speed which tbh wasn't really a deal maker now was it? Campag continue to play catch-up! For me Campag is certainly better than sram but like em or loathe em you have to hand it to shimano for what they've done for us all.

 

[Parera]

Whether you're a fan or not Shimano continue to revolutionize bike componentry, whilst Campag was seen as THE groupset in the past if it wasn't for shimano we would still have down tube (friction) shifters and the like! Campag held on with ergopower (for me the clumsiest gear system ever, that's when I switched to Shimano) then took off with their 'carbon everything' oh how original........ I was scared shimano would go the same route when they brought out an ugly carbon chainset but thankfully they didn't mass produce! Carbon STI levers are more than enough thank you!

Now campag are playing catch-up (again) with electronic gears.......... I do wish that campag were better but the last time they came up with something shimano didn't have was 11 speed which tbh wasn't really a deal maker now was it? Campag continue to play catch-up! For me Campag is certainly better than sram but like em or loathe em you have to hand it to shimano for what they've done for us all.

So wait, Shimano moving to 11 speed after how many years of Campagnolo having perfected it and Camagnolo is the one behind the times? OK.

 

[veganrob]

Campy also had a working electronic gruppo 10 years ago.

 

[Notso Swift]

If it is not in production it doesn't count
11sp isn't and wasn't revolutionary where STI was

I have both a Shimano and Campagnolo and they both have their benefits, I do prefer Campagnolo, but most of that is probably because it is a newer group

 

[richwagmn]

Campy also had a working electronic gruppo 10 years ago.

I guess those Italian engineers just aren't as bright as Shimano's then? Or did they have to wait for DI2 to figure out how to actually make it work?

 

[richwagmn]

Looks like Shimano have changed to a four bolt crankset. Wonder if they will continue manufacturing five bolt chainrings for spare parts.

Another reason not to use Shimano.

The cool thing is that they have one spider size now. Because the rings are so stiff you can run a compact set of rings or a normal set on the same spider. Good change IMO.

 

[42x16ss]

Campy also had a working electronic gruppo 10 years ago.

Mavic had an electronic gruppo in production 20 years ago

 

[Chuck Armstrong]

I guess those Italian engineers just aren't as bright as Shimano's then? Or did they have to wait for DI2 to figure out how to actually make it work?

1 extra sprocket isn't a big deal when there are already 10 is it?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Whether you're a fan or not Shimano continue to revolutionize bike componentry, whilst Campag was seen as THE groupset in the past if it wasn't for shimano we would still have down tube (friction) shifters and the like! Campag held on with ergopower (for me the clumsiest gear system ever, that's when I switched to Shimano) then took off with their 'carbon everything' oh how original........ I was scared shimano would go the same route when they brought out an ugly carbon chainset but thankfully they didn't mass produce! Carbon STI levers are more than enough thank you!

Now campag are playing catch-up (again) with electronic gears.......... I do wish that campag were better but the last time they came up with something shimano didn't have was 11 speed which tbh wasn't really a deal maker now was it? Campag continue to play catch-up! For me Campag is certainly better than sram but like em or loathe em you have to hand it to shimano for what they've done for us all.

'Us??'

shimano is like toyota or Seiko, sram is like Yugo, Campagnolo is like Alfa or Ducati or Rolex.

Campagnolo is a different biz model is spite of the fact they both make bike components. Did ya know shimano talked with Campagnolo before they created Di2? Do you really think shimano would go to 11s 'just because' Campagnolo did? Do you think it's a coincidence that shimano is moving toward 11s? Perhaps to isolate a certain manufacturer they both see as not really premium but focused on cheap and light, made in Taiwan?

Altho they both went to 9s in the same year(1997), it took shimano 4 years to go to 10s.

Campag didn't do electronic until they were satisfied it was reliable and it offers real advantages over Di2...which the new 11s Di2 will also offer, like multiple shifts.

Campag EPS justifies shimano Di2, 11s shimano justifies Campag 11s..sram is playing catchup. Making cheap OEM stuff with great warranties will only take them so far.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I guess those Italian engineers just aren't as bright as Shimano's then? Or did they have to wait for DI2 to figure out how to actually make it work?

They are actually much different. Campag is more digital whereas original Di2 was much more 'analog'. If you installed them and see how they work, it would be much clearer. For example, Campag has only one limit screw on the derailleurs, whereas Di2 has 4...You position Campag derailleurs and tell the system to memorize that position, where as Di2 is positioned via limit screws.

 

[veganrob]

Mavic had an electronic gruppo in production 20 years ago

You are correct sir

 

[purpletezza]

Mavic had an electronic gruppo in production 20 years ago

Yeah and like it is still around. Shimano may seem slower to but what they produce is superb quality and reliability. They were the first to really get an electronic groupset into mass production such that any joe schmo can get it and use it without having a team car tailing behind. There were many false starts at electronic shifters from mavic, campag but really Shimano nailed it.

 

[Fiemme]

It looks like the new 11 speed cassettes will not fit the old hubs. Looks like a wheel/hub upgrade will be required also.

 

[PCutter]

It looks like the new 11 speed cassettes will not fit the old hubs. Looks like a wheel/hub upgrade will be required also.

This was the bit I least liked about the upgrade. Not good for those of us who run multiple bikes and switch the wheels between.

 

[ultimobici]

Altho they both went to 9s in the same year(1997), it took shimano 4 years to go to 10s.

The beauty of this being my Record Ti 9 speed hubs work perfectly with 11 speed cassettes, something Shimano owners will not be able to do!

Campag didn't do electronic until they were satisfied it was reliable and it offers real advantages over Di2...which the new 11s Di2 will also offer, like multiple shifts.

IIRC Shimano had to work around many of the Campag patents while developing DI2. But the reason Campag took so long is that, unlike the $2Bn monolith Shimano, they cannot afford to have anything other than a perfect product. Shimano is big enough to foist the likes of Biopace, MTB Dual STI etc with far less risk of financial trouble. Campagnolo is a fraction of the size of Shimano so cannot afford sub par products.

 

[dsut4392]

The beauty of this being my Record Ti 9 speed hubs work perfectly with 11 speed cassettes, something Shimano owners will not be able to do!

Looking back a little further in time, what did Campy users have to do to get 8-speed on their bikes? Change their hubs wasn't it?

Had this forum existed in the mid '90s, it's likely we would have seen smug posts like:
"My Dura Ace 7 speed hubs work perfectly with 8 [later 9/10] speed cassettes, something Campy users will not be able to do!".

Is it going to stop a few people getting 11-speed straight away? Maybe, but if you're the kind of person that can afford the group set and thinks they need it, they will likely have the cash and internal justification to lash out on some new wheels too.
For everyone else, 10 speed shimano isn't going anywhere fast - you can still buy 9-speed dura ace parts pretty commonly!

 

[badboygolf16v]

Mavic had an electronic gruppo in production 20 years ago

Zap first I believe, then Mektronic. Which was utter ****. I know cos I had it for about two weeks..

 

[richwagmn]

The beauty of this being my Record Ti 9 speed hubs work perfectly with 11 speed cassettes, something Shimano owners will not be able to do!

IIRC Shimano had to work around many of the Campag patents while developing DI2. But the reason Campag took so long is that, unlike the $2Bn monolith Shimano, they cannot afford to have anything other than a perfect product. Shimano is big enough to foist the likes of Biopace, MTB Dual STI etc with far less risk of financial trouble. Campagnolo is a fraction of the size of Shimano so cannot afford sub par products.

Oh please...

You could also say that Shimano has more engineering prowess (and money) at it's disposal since cycling isn't its only business.

I think Campag promoters forget who gave us ramped cogsets, perfected indexed shifting, pinned and ramped chainrings and brifters not to mention Campag is a total no show in MTB components.

Campag has had to play catch up to Shimano more than a few times. And I'd argue that Shimano's innovations have had far more effect on the industry than anything Campag has done since the slant/parallelogram rear derailluer.

 

[BroDeal]

Oh please...

You could also say that Shimano has more engineering prowess (and money) at it's disposal since cycling isn't its only business.

I think Campag promoters forget who gave us ramped cogsets, perfected indexed shifting, pinned and ramped chainrings and brifters not to mention Campag is a total no show in MTB components.

Campag has had to play catch up to Shimano more than a few times. And I'd argue that Shimano's innovations have had far more effect on the industry than anything Campag has done since the slant/parallelogram rear derailluer.

Somewhere I read that Dura Ace 9000 hollow outer chainrings will cost $350. There's a great improvement right there.

 

[Benotti69]

This thread just needs someone to post that the Shimano air in their tubs is stronger, lighter and faster than Campag air

 

[biker jk]

Somewhere I read that Dura Ace 9000 hollow outer chainrings will cost $350. There's a great improvement right there.

That's what the Campagnolo 11-speed chain tool cost when it first came out.