Difference between American and European fans

[Oldman]

Americans in general are just too big a bunch of douchebags to appreciate this wonderful sport, so f 'em.

I forgive em. Stupid people don't know they're stupid.[/QUOTE]

Back to what I said. Catorgorizing those that disagree is with you is a weak conceit. By the way; Major Taylor was an American, as was most serious racing before Europeans embraced it. It was commercial and there was performance enhancements. Emphasis on "enhancements". It was entertainment. Until you understand that the sport is what you make it you will completely miss the point. If you truly appreciate this sport you are a participant; not a hyper-critical, hypocritical dillatante. That's a French word, by the way. Just like douche'bag.

 

[The Falcon]

Dilettante is a French word, as for the other, well i think you just made that up

 

[rhubroma]

A Sports Illustrated article about it. It raises issues beyond doping that are interesting.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/the_bonus/07/07/tour/index.html

Mamma Mia! Sure the article was a fairly decent analysis regarding Euro cynicism and American so-called wholesomeness, but really, I wanted to pull my hair out when it reported that the American teams "most likely would not have set up team doping programs." Please, give me a break.

This is typical of the US press' pitifull job at promoting misinformation to allow the American public to still believe thier nation is better.

The wider issues it raises, I think, are in regards to a general approach to looking at the world in Europe where innocense and candor are left out and seen as rather annoying and stupid when effected by adults. For this reason I've seen 12 year-old Italian kids who have a super aware look in their eyes, as if they already know how the world really works, which is totally alien to the candid gazes I have seen in many an American tourist and university student. They're simply prepared better to be critical thinkers for it. I was told once, by an ex-mormon, that Italy has the lowest conversion rate of any country in the world. Allthough, their cynical approach has also, it must be admitted, allowed right-wng Italy to vote for Silvio Berlsuconi 3 times, a man who should be behind bars and not the premier, but that is an entirely different matter. At least he only hurts leftist Italians.

What Europeans find at times currious, at others annoying, at others downright angering is how can an American nation at once be so hospitable with guests, self-rightious and candid in thier world views on the one hand (in matters of little consequence like who this or that politician has gone to bed with), and, on the other, not take care of its own with nationalized healthcare, support capital punishment in the post Enlightenment era while preaching against Iran for it's executions, allow itself to be hoodwinked by a necon regime to go to war in Iraq against a bloody dictator who it had previously armed in its war against Iran, be the promotors of deregulation at the finantial markets which allowed for a model of pure greed to take us to the economic disaster of late, and be the driving force behind the savage and corporate capitalism which has widened the gap between the worlds rich and poor again in the post-Enlightnment age and claim that it's way of life is simply the best and a universal model to be applied (even by force when necessary) globally. All this and still believe in wholesomeness.

There is no right way to live. Neither in America nor in Europe, but with greater power and a greater leadership role, comes greater responsibilty for ones actions.

In any case, on the cycling note the same difference between the candid world view and one with a more discerning eye applies to why Europeans make no qualms about saying their all (or nearly all) doped, this is how its done, etc. Simply because that's the way its done.

 

[BroDeal]

Mamma Mia! Sure the article was a fairly decent analysis regarding Euro cynicism and American so-called wholesomeness, but really, I wanted to pull my hair out when it reported that the American teams "most likely would not have set up team doping programs." Please, give me a break.

I don't know where that comes from because it does not fit in with much of the facts that are cited and the case that is built. The only thing I can think of is that the author is projecting the experience of teams 7-11 and Motorola to Postal/Disco. I get the feeling that much of the article may have been written in that way, where the authors primary experience is with the U.S. riders of twenty years ago.

It will be interesting to see if the U.S. press ever peels away the veil of one of the major U.S. sports. I am not holding my breath because the majority of the media in the U.S.'s major markets is owned by a handful of giant multinational corporations. The same companies that own the news media also own the television channels that make money from those major U.S. sports.

I do think the BALCO affait has opened a lot of people's eyes. Americans are more suspicious of the major American sports.

 

[Animal]

It will be interesting to see if the U.S. press ever peels away the veil of one of the major U.S. sports. I am not holding my breath because the majority of the media in the U.S.'s major markets is owned by a handful of giant multinational corporations. The same companies that own the news media also own the television channels that make money from those major U.S. sports.

Never going to happen.

"Panem et circenses"

 

[rhubroma]

I don't know where that comes from because it does not fit in with much of the facts that are cited and the case that is built. The only thing I can think of is that the author is projecting the experience of teams 7-11 and Motorola to Postal/Disco. I get the feeling that much of the article may have been written in that way, where the authors primary experience is with the U.S. riders of twenty years ago.

It will be interesting to see if the U.S. press ever peels away the veil of one of the major U.S. sports. I am not holding my breath because the majority of the media in the U.S.'s major markets is owned by a handful of giant multinational corporations. The same companies that own the news media also own the television channels that make money from those major U.S. sports.

I do think the BALCO affait has opened a lot of people's eyes. Americans are more suspicious of the major American sports.

No there was a part there that said, in so many words, that the US teams did not enforce a regime of doping within the squad, and that the US cyclists caught doping were doing so on an individual basis as if "bad apples."

And you are right to note how corporate tv is killing information in the States. Unfortunately, however, we're no better off in Berlusconi's Italy. The only difference is that the opposition here is much more severe. And there is margin for ideology, views against the system, which, if spoken openly in America would get one branded a radical. And I'm not talking about No-global, just anything that raises a question about the market model.

What I thought was good about the article is that it portrayed the different views about pro cycling as cultural, which is absolutely the case.

 

[Stani Kléber]

Some big generalisations going on here. Visit a town in France and you will find Lance fans and others cynical of the doping; above all you'll find people who aren't interested in cycling though.

But the message is that vies vary enormously within each country, yet alone between different countries. Europe vs America is a fairly false distinction.

 

[issoisso]

Some big generalisations going on here. Visit a town in France and you will find Lance fans and others cynical of the doping;

For reference, the TV ratings peak of this Tour on french TV so far was at 3 million viewers. At the exact moment when Lance started his prologue.
Every time he goes anywhere near french fans, he's cheered. The "french hate Armstrong" idea is a convenient myth.

This is a disclamer and as such not aimed at anyone personally

 

[TrapperJohn]

One thing I am curious about... if in fact the average European accepts doping as part of an athlete's career, why did Festina cause such a stir? What was the real reason they got up in arms over it? It certainly wasn't dismissed with a Gallic shrug, they got downright militant in 1998.

 

[lean mean &green]

It will be interesting to see if the U.S. press ever peels away the veil of one of the major U.S. sports. I am not holding my breath because the majority of the media in the U.S.'s major markets is owned by a handful of giant multinational corporations. The same companies that own the news media also own the television channels that make money from those major U.S. sports.

I think u might be reaching here b/c there's a lot of evidence that sportswriters in the US are more concerned with PED's than sports fans (an opinion often repeated by mainstreamers like Mike Wilbon).

If you're really interested in how the news media is "filtered" then read Chomsky's "Manufactured Consent". A brilliant man but a bit too idealistic for me. Enjoy.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

One thing I am curious about... if in fact the average European accepts doping as part of an athlete's career, why did Festina cause such a stir? What was the real reason they got up in arms over it? It certainly wasn't dismissed with a Gallic shrug, they got downright militant in 1998.

I don't think doping was as widely understood and accepted in Europe (or at least France) prior to the Festina affair. The Festina affair is what opened their eyes to how insidious it was.

 

[Irish2009]

http://www.velonews.com/.../an-essay-by-1984-olympic-gold-medalist-alexi-grewal -

This from the 1984 Olympic Champion, who if rumours are to be belived blood doped to win that medal....along with all the others on the "Olympic Programme" and this was in 1984.

 

[Futuroscope]

A Sports Illustrated article about it. It raises issues beyond doping that are interesting.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/the_bonus/07/07/tour/index.html

........'europeans'.

and regarding doping...the usual american hypocrisy.