Discuss racing here???

[davidg]

Doping forum hijacked

I dunno. I visit this forum so that I can see some more of the same old rhetoric rejigged and reposted and all you guys want to talk about is the quality of the threads. Hardly anything on LA, contador et al.

when you going to get the scissors and glue back out again?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Alpe, I really don't get your point. Who cares about post count, that sounds ridiculous.

Thanks for isolating what I said out of context.

I brought up the numbers not to show how superior I am, only to explain how the message board used to be, and what it's become over the last few weeks. Something you apparently don't see, or don't care about.

 

[slowoldman]

Thanks for isolating what I said out of context.

I brought up the numbers not to show how superior I am, only to explain how the message board used to be, and what it's become over the last few weeks. Something you apparently don't see, or don't care about.

Seriously? You pick one line out of my response and accuse me of taking things out of context?

Anyway, I actually think you are one of the more contained Armstrong detractors (purposely didn't say haters). But when you and BD feed off each other you do get a bit high and mighty. Add the rest, however subdued or over the top and it becomes a bit much. I can see how you would feel the same about the "other side".

Trust me, I agree that some (possibly most) of the "new" posters are ridiculous, but no more so than guys like WBT or TFF who can be quite juvenile in their own right.

Look at today, Armstrong is getting no credit from the majority of the detractors for riding as a teammate. He did, period. Whether he wanted to or not is another matter, but he did. Read my post in tactics for Friday in the RR forum and you can see I figured it would happen this way.

I think that Astana's goal was to get Armstrong in yellow today, both for his ego and the publicity it would bring. It didn't happen, Contador rode better, as I thought he might.

Now, I have said that after Contador was leading I think Armstrong will work for him. I suppose we will see about that. I hope I am not wrong, Armstrong sounded a bit upset afterward.....

 

[blackcat]

Elapid, thank you. Good post. I understand your post regarding Armstrongs attitude. Quite frankly I agree, but I can seperate that from respecting him as a good, and contrary to most people's opinions, exciting cyclist.

Alpe, I really don't get your point. Who cares about post count, that sounds ridiculous. If Eddy himself came in and joined he would have a lot lower post count than you and BroDeal. And yet, I doubt you would argue your abundant cycling intellect is more developed than his, maybe you would. Your post count entitles you to no feelings of superiority. You guys need to realize that. (You all possess the Armstrong attitude towards new posters, how ironic is that!) That is the problem you all create with the three week posters. They respond to you in the same manner you interact with them.

I am under no illusions about doping, I understand it is rampant in the sport that we follow. I don't need to know the details of how to do it, how they do it or anything else about doing it for that matter. As I have said before, I believe the people that do, are either looking to do it, have done it or do it presently and don't think there is anything wrong with it. (BigBoat) What utter lunacy!

I hope ALL dopers are caught eventually, even Lance Armstrong (gasp!) if he is indeed doping. All non convicted riders are entitled to the claim of being clean until caught. Please read above before you accuse me of holding him in some high regard. I will point out the hypocrisy of your position yet again. You believe all (BigBoat) or most (the majority of this forum) professional cyclists are on PED's. So, to most here, they are all cheating. Don't give me this A Schleck is less of a cheat than Armstrong, by definition he isn't. (in response to unsheath). They are both cheaters....if they dope.

So to answer your final assertion, I don't mind facing reality, in fact I believe my opinions are firmly planted in it. As I have said before, I admit ignorance when it comes to the details of knowing the what, how and why of PED's and I really don't want to discuss that in a Road Racing Forum (so you guys enjoy this forum, I will be in the RR in the future), most definitely not because I am afraid of getting my a** handed to me.

Quite unctuous. Yes INDEED, indeed if he was doping, who'da thunk it? Wiesel words. You admitted your ignorance, and how right you are. Do not try and tell Alpe what he is entitled to think, he is an informed poster, who knows the truth from the PR spin some hacks like Sherwen and Liggett purvey.

 

[slowoldman]

Quite unctuous. Yes INDEED, indeed if he was doping, who'da thunk it? Wiesel words. You admitted your ignorance, and how right you are. Do not try and tell Alpe what he is entitled to think, he is an informed poster, who knows the truth from the PR spin some hacks like Sherwen and Liggett purvey.

Did you read the rest of the post? Or do you prefer to be myopic in scope too? I admitted my ignorance with regard to the specifics of doping technique and wanting to learn about that. I feel I am adequately knowlegable about cycling, and if you took the time to read the rest of my posts here you may come to the same conclusion, then again maybe not.

I find you much like BigBoat, you are fascinated by doping and the techniques the dopers employ. I find that I am just the opposite and think your posts are frankly quite boring.

Alpe however, has contributed some insight to cycling that I found interesting and agreeable. We have had our differences of opinion too. I never told him how he should think, I told him how I interpreted some of his postings, quite a difference. So I would ask you to do the same for me.

With regard to Armstrong, I am not as naive as you might consider. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Sheltowee]

Absolutely spot on.

The hate/dope brigade is so blinded by their own sense of smug superiority that they cannot accept any opinion that doesn't coincide with their own. If you don't openly bash Lance and accept that everyone is doped then you must be a three week fanboy who has never sat on a bike and who knows nothing.

The arrogance exhibited by the hate brigade towards posters who may not be as well informed as they are is also staggering. This is an open forum on the web! By definition, it will attract all sorts of people. The situation we have now is that any new posters joining up who don't immediately join the Lance bashing crowd are pigeon-holed and dismissed by the hate boys, who generally react in an arrogant, hectoring and bullying manner to anyone they see as 'inferior' in knowledge or understanding. These people, a number of whom are well represented here, should either STFU or go off and find or start another forum exclusively populated by ex-racers, active racers, doping experts and other people who share their own points of view, and who hold the same inflated opinions of their own intelligence. Just because someone has never raced does not deny them the right to express an opinion. You're supposed to 'discuss' on a forum, not just 'talk down' at people who disagree with you or who don't have your own vast experience. You also should not constantly lecture, insult, and brow-beat them, which is what has been constantly going on.

The comment here that the fanboys are the only ones 'defending' the TTT, while the sensible hateboys are the only ones to understand that it was a complete waste of time, is indicative of the type of ludicrous up your own *** thinking that makes many posters here look like complete idiots to those of us who are able to exercise a bit of objectivity.

So yes, I think you superior know-it-alls should stay in here, and leave all of us know-nothing plebs to stew in our own ignorance in the main forum.

Trust me, mister, there are few "bike racers" on this forum. We had a names for them when I raced motocross: Sidewalk Commandos & Drug Store Cowboys." You know, they dress the dress and followed the races and talked a lot.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Trust me, mister, there are few "bike racers" on this forum. We had a names for them when I raced motocross: Sidewalk Commandos & Drug Store Cowboys." You know, they dress the dress and followed the races and talked a lot.

You sure that's it?

There's definitely a difference between Blackcat and BigBoat. Take a closer look.

I see your point Slowoldman. You don't seem blind to me. Like to leave it at that and move on.

Back to the topic at hand, if you would like to join us in the discussions on Stage 7 and racing clean, and help crunch some numbers, go for it. We're also looking for someone who can dig up Jan's ride to Arcalis in 1997 to compare times/power/doping.

 

[longrun]

Hey, I found where everyone disappeared to!

I must be a little dense, it took me a while to put two and two together.

Of course there should be race discussion here, at least for the next two weeks.

And if you haven't seen it yet, there is a long post on The Science of Sport blog with final 10km times to Arcalis for Ullrich, Pantani, and Virenque.

 

[D-bagDetector]

Quite unctuous. Yes INDEED, indeed if he was doping, who'da thunk it? Wiesel words. You admitted your ignorance, and how right you are. Do not try and tell Alpe what he is entitled to think, he is an informed poster, who knows the truth from the PR spin some hacks like Sherwen and Liggett purvey.

This is pefect example of the type of douchebaggery that is rampant in these threads.

 

[TRDean]

This is pefect example of the type of douchebaggery that is rampant in these threads.

So why are you one and why are you adding to it? Douchbag!!

 

[slowoldman]

There's definitely a difference between Blackcat and BigBoat. Take a closer look.

I see your point Slowoldman. You don't seem blind to me. Like to leave it at that and move on.

Alpe, after reading more of blackcats posts I will agree with you, much more to his posts than BigBoat.

No worries on the other. I agree time to move on.

 

[D-bagDetector]

Good point. I am a douchebag and also an arsehat!!

I completely agree with you.

 

[workingclasshero]

I completely agree with you.

jesus christ. someone's going for the most boring poster of the year award. please try to put some originality into your putdowns mate, you're embarrassing yourself

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

jesus christ. someone's going for the most boring poster of the year award. please try to put some originality into your putdowns mate, you're embarrassing yourself

Why you answer him? Dont make him bigger then he is. So just ignore this douchebag. Not everybody was born with a brain.

 

[workingclasshero]

Why you answer him? Dont make him bigger then he is. So just ignore this douchebag. Not everybody was born with a brain.

using your logic: don't reply to a reply to him

to be honest he doesn't mind me one bit, i like to have someone to look down on it is that ttf lad who seems to enjoy exchanging horrible words like douchebag (deary me) and arsehat (deary deary me, that one would actually get an ok from me nan!) with him

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

using your logic: don't reply to a reply to him

Am still laughing

 

[Franklin]

I hope ALL dopers are caught eventually, even Lance Armstrong (gasp!) if he is indeed doping. All non convicted riders are entitled to the claim of being clean until caught. Please read above before you accuse me of holding him in some high regard. I will point out the hypocrisy of your position yet again. You believe all (BigBoat) or most (the majority of this forum) professional cyclists are on PED's. So, to most here, they are all cheating. Don't give me this A Schleck is less of a cheat than Armstrong, by definition he isn't. (in response to unsheath). They are both cheaters....if they dope.

You seem like a sensible guy, why don't you see the difference between these two? Just three names: Bassons. Simeoni. Andreu.

This is why Lance get's so much more flak than for example Heras.

Other rider who has image issues:

Alberto Contador; "My whole team dopes, the initials AC are used on several papers, but really I'm the only clean one" (I smell a selfserving rat)

Flat out deny or be open about it, but don't destroy others with another opinion/be an obvious Rat.