Do you believe anyone is clean?

Mar 13, 2009
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Christian Vande Velde broke his leg about two months ago. Pretty miraculous recovery really if he is clean.

Up there with Svein Tuft in the credibility stakes.
 
Mar 16, 2009
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slow-twitch said:
Of the top 20 right now, who do you believe is NOT doping?
I so want to believe in Garmin and VdV.
Allegation after allegation... One rider after another caught, in a slow trickle of confirmed positives... A few "tell all" confessions... I don't know how one can think that any rider is clean. At least for me, I just assume that they are all cheating, but try to look past this and enjoy the beauty and spectacle of the sport.


Dave
 
May 17, 2009
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in bona fide

slow-twitch said:
Of the top 20 right now, who do you believe is NOT doping?
I so want to believe in Garmin and VdV.
Just believe all the riders are clean as long as no proof tells the opposite.

Human beeing is not without fail, but we have a lot of fun as spectators and a lot of respect in what they are daily performing.
 
First real climbing day, so we'll have to see how they recover, and who can keep it up. I'd guess Wiggins and maybe Sastre are cleaner. Brad is likely to get dropped in the days to come, just like he did in the Giro. Sastre, I don't know.

BigBoat says Wiggins is a fake and jacked. I don't buy it. Not saying I'm sure the guy is whistle clean, just that out of everyone doing well right now, if I had to put stock in one guy, it would be Brad. I also expect him to finish over an hour behind in Paris.

It should be pretty obvious which team is doped to the gills. Several, actually.
 
May 13, 2009
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Garmin's VdV? I somehow doubt it. I think the French are mostly cleaner. But then again, you won't find them in the top 20 usually (and those who make it seem definitely dodgy).
 
May 13, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
First real climbing day, so we'll have to see how they recover, and who can keep it up. I'd guess Wiggins and maybe Sastre are cleaner. Brad is likely to get dropped in the days to come, just like he did in the Giro. Sastre, I don't know.

BigBoat says Wiggins is a fake and jacked. I don't buy it. Not saying I'm sure the guy is whistle clean, just that out of everyone doing well right now, if I had to put stock in one guy, it would be Brad. I also expect him to finish over an hour behind in Paris.

It should be pretty obvious which team is doped to the gills. Several, actually.
I actually think that Menchov right now is clean. Apparently he's the most targeted rider at the TdF thanks to the Vienna affair. Also, he might have used up all his reserves in the Giro. He's riding poorly but he was up there today. I believe a clean rider could hang on today, but not in week 2 or 3. We'll see how Menchov/Wiggins are performing later on.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Cobblestones said:
Garmin's VdV? I somehow doubt it. I think the French are mostly cleaner. But then again, you won't find them in the top 20 usually (and those who make it seem definitely dodgy).
nah, they are on less. If that is cleaner. But if a proportion of them are not completely clean, in any greater numbers, this is ambiguous. I dont think they are any cleaner in this interpretation.

the Feillu brothers are not clean. Dont think Yukiya Arashiro is clean neither.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Out of the top 10 I think Wiggins is clean. His performance looks great now but I have doubts to how well he can compete over the next two weeks against riders who might be topping up and micro dosing.
 
Good point on Menchov. Not sure what reserves he's got left in the tank from whatever last fill up, and how much he's burnt, but he's got to be running on fumes. If he comes into Paris over an hour back like I expect Wiggins, you might be right.

The thing with the French (and Germans) is that doping has been suppressed there more than other countries, and shunned, but that doesn't mean they're clean. Just usually cleaner, and more likely to have clean riders. The results show it at least.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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wow, Milram are clean now except for Gerdemann, fat chance you get that kid riding clean.

Ciolek was super in 2007. He just blew everyone's doors off in the Deutschland Rundfahrt field sprints. Then he won an uphill sprint aftera 500 metre altitude ascent last year in Germany. Have never seen versatility like that. He also came about 3rd in the 3km prologue.

This year he is $hit.
 
Jun 2, 2009
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I'm sure VDV is clean

BroDeal said:
I would not pick VDV because of his performance last year....
It's the other way round. VDV has managed to emerge from 'domestique-ity' with a bit of extra self-belief & because the rest of the peleton is a hell of a lot cleaner now. As we saw on stage 7 clean riders like Wiggins & VDV can do a lot better in the tour now than they could 5 years ago.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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benlondon said:
It's the other way round. VDV has managed to emerge from 'domestique-ity' with a bit of extra self-belief & because the rest of the peleton is a hell of a lot cleaner now. As we saw on stage 7 clean riders like Wiggins & VDV can do a lot better in the tour now than they could 5 years ago.
But can they maintain this position over the three weeks without any products or methods to aid recovery?
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Good point on Menchov. Not sure what reserves he's got left in the tank from whatever last fill up, and how much he's burnt, but he's got to be running on fumes. If he comes into Paris over an hour back like I expect Wiggins, you might be right.
Let's define first what a clean rider is... If you use products before the Tour such as Testosterone or some Steroids etc. i.o. to recover from very hard training, you might be able to do Tour without taking anything in those 3 Weeks... But that's not clean riding isn't it?:rolleyes:
 
Jul 10, 2009
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My line of thinking- how many of the old Postal Service team have been caught/suspected? So if Garmin wanted to go for a "clean" no doping policy, would they choose VdV unless they were sure he was beyond all that?
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Can say that some are clean, some not.
Definitely clean-
Garmin: Tyler Farrar (his parents would kill him) David Z.
Comment about Svein Tuft is way off mark. He has killed people for years (you've just never seen it) and eats roadkill to survive-probably tougher than any Tour rider.
Astana-very old known history would suggest not.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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blackcat said:
wow, Milram are clean now except for Gerdemann, fat chance you get that kid riding clean.

Ciolek was super in 2007. He just blew everyone's doors off in the Deutschland Rundfahrt field sprints. Then he won an uphill sprint aftera 500 metre altitude ascent last year in Germany. Have never seen versatility like that. He also came about 3rd in the 3km prologue.

This year he is $hit.
His trainer from the Wiesenhof days says he's always had problems when he's in the spotlight and is team leader. He doesn't handle pressure well, never has.
Notice the Tour last year....leading out Cavendish he was just as fast as Cavendish. The last two sprint stages he went for himself and.....did nothing.

As for the guy who said fat chance Gerdemann is riding clean....you're absolutely right!
 
Any team that has a slew of guys near the bottom of GC after a week or so is a good place to start looking. :)

Hayden Roulston said:
Let's define first what a clean rider is... If you use products before the Tour such as Testosterone or some Steroids etc. i.o. to recover from very hard training, you might be able to do Tour without taking anything in those 3 Weeks... But that's not clean riding isn't it?
That was my point on Menchov. I'd be willing to accept he got "scared straight" when the shjt started to hit the fan the week before the Tour. Not that he was "clean" at the time. But I think you got my drift.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
First real climbing day, so we'll have to see how they recover, and who can keep it up. I'd guess Wiggins and maybe Sastre are cleaner. Brad is likely to get dropped in the days to come, just like he did in the Giro. Sastre, I don't know.

BigBoat says Wiggins is a fake and jacked. I don't buy it. Not saying I'm sure the guy is whistle clean, just that out of everyone doing well right now, if I had to put stock in one guy, it would be Brad. I also expect him to finish over an hour behind in Paris.

It should be pretty obvious which team is doped to the gills. Several, actually.
Wiggins climbs with guys that are 30 pounds lighter than him and jacked to 55-59% blood doping. Wiggins does this totally clean with superior training, and a rice diet. "Never tested positive!" Lance Armstrong is clean too, so is Contador!

Contador doesnt need to dope because he's a little 130 pound climber. Their all clean. Doping makes you go slower. Therefore, it should be legalized because it slows down dumb riders who are dumb enough to dope

:)
 
benlondon said:
It's the other way round. VDV has managed to emerge from 'domestique-ity' with a bit of extra self-belief & because the rest of the peleton is a hell of a lot cleaner now. As we saw on stage 7 clean riders like Wiggins & VDV can do a lot better in the tour now than they could 5 years ago.
VDV performance does not fit with the other Garmin riders, many of whom have the same background as VDV. Tommy D., the Z-Man, David Millar, etc. are not what they used to be. It cannot be that VDV was not doping before and now that everyone is cleaner he stands out. Even forgetting about Postal and CSC, VDV rode for Liberty Seguros one year.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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BroDeal said:
VDV performance does not fit with the other Garmin riders, many of whom have the same background as VDV. Tommy D., the Z-Man, David Millar, etc. are not what they used to be. It cannot be that VDV was not doping before and now that everyone is cleaner he stands out. Even forgetting about Postal and CSC, VDV rode for Liberty Seguros one year.
Yeah he made rice diet, Vegan improvements to go from 50-75 places jacked on the Postal/ Disco medical program to top 5 totally clean on the clean Germin team. Brown rice and egg whites improvement... Oh wait...If your Vegan you cant eat that can you?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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BigBoat said:
Wiggins climbs with guys that are 30 pounds lighter than him and jacked to 55-59% blood doping. Wiggins does this totally clean with superior training, and a rice diet. "Never tested positive!" Lance Armstrong is clean too, so is Contador!

Contador doesnt need to dope because he's a little 130 pound climber. Their all clean. Doping makes you go slower. Therefore, it should be legalized because it slows down dumb riders who are dumb enough to dope

:)
actually Wiggins has lost alot of weight. Down to 70/71.

Now, THEY ALL say that, all have proactive claims, to prove their "form" is genuine. But it is funny, you have Christian Vande Velde seeding an article into the press via Slipstream's PR flaks Peppercorn, saying he out-tested Armstrong on some test climb in Chicago in a pre-season test in 98 or 99. Bingo, he comes out and finishes 5th or 4th dpending on how you dice the Kohl sanction.

He also said he could have followed on the first climb that Frank Schleck, Cobo, and Pereiro got away on, I think Ricco lit it up first, and then they went. Christian said he coulda followed, and in hindsight, should have followed.

DOPERZ 101. Christian, you still have not learnt. Do not tell use and admit you coulda and shoulda followed mega CERA doped riders, on the second and more pivotal mtn top finish, do not tell us that. Now, because they are doping, does not equal CVV is doping. No, that is flawed logic. But, its hella suspicious.

I think he said something about having something left in the tank on the final mtn stage, when Andy Schleck lit it up from the remainder after Sastre pumped the leaders for 2 minutes. Again CVV, you are telling us you coulda put something into Kohl et al <shakes head>.

I cant buy this from CVV.

Wiggins? Yes, I have doubts. But I will give him some benefit of the doubt for now BB. He deserves that much. If he defends and follows wheels, and hangs on for a top 10 GC finish, I will scream from the top of my lungs tho.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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I'm willing to bet that when cyclismag publishes wattages of riders from today's climb they won't be any slower than the 2006 Tour.
 

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