Do you believe anyone is clean?

[blackcat]

I wonder if Wiggins could turn into the CVV of 2009.

I like this example of CVV for instructive purposes.

Mcgee finished 8th in the Giro in 2004, after hanging on for grim life in the mtns, which were not that bad that year. And one medium-long chrono, plus a prologue. He finished 8th. He then sucked in the Tour, and pulled out after a week.

NB Mcgee did not go into the Giro with any form, or any objective, he had hoped to do ok in the prologue, and took the jersey in stage two I think, or was it in the prologue.

Alas. He hung on, defended it, then defended classement.

2008 CVV takes the rosa, says he will defend. Rides like Kirsipuu in the first mtn stage, relinquishes the jersey. Finishes quite inconspicuous in the remaining Giro.

Then he comes out and lights up the Tour. After spending time in Switzerland, St Moritz I think. Now, Ferrari has a chateau there, I wonder if there is a blood doctor that Ferrari uses. When the Slipstream guys came to the Tour, they had some ambiguous retics. Millar or VDV. It was mentioned on Joe Lindsey's blog Boulder Report.

I reckon Garmin are pretty clean, top to bottom, the cleanest of the lot. But I think they should be held up to scrutiny, and not just swallowed the PR line. We are not buying that from anyone else, so why Garmin. I mean, there was a guy from the US team last year, who attacked in the final lap of the Worlds, and he was a Garmin guy. And we never have seen him attack such an illustrious field. Albeit, if Matti Breschel makes the podium, it may mean the race was not ripping the legs off.

I like Garmin, but don't like JV sounding out Contador. Seems just a little petty squabble with Bruyneel and Armstrong that he could do without. Go ahead, do your own thing JV. But someone like Mcgee to come back, and retire in style. A clean rider. Then they may win the teams timetrial. They are one or two riders short of winning that.

I like the young buck Farrar tho, he has a good rider in him.

 

[blackcat]

On the Mcgee CVV analogy. Mcgee never intended to find form, he just defended and hung on in the mtns and bombed the descents.

It is funny when riders miraculously time their form. This goes to prove the theory, that "form" is a euphemism for manipulating the physiological parameters with the medical program.

Mcgees objective was the Tour. He sucked and pulled out.

CVV intended to defend, and climbed like Jaan Kirsipuu. Then he climbed like a grimpeur at the Tour. And CVV had never been a grimpeur.

 

[ProfTournesol]

the Feillu brothers are not clean. Dont think Yukiya Arashiro is clean neither.

speculation? Do you have any evidence? Brice looks more like he has anorexia, shades of Chicken perhaps?

 

[blackcat]

Roman had his leg broken to elongate it, as one leg was one inch shorter. He then came second to Ciolek in the u23 worlds in 2006. I just do not buy those brothers. Arashiro had a pretty crap Circuito Montanes last year, unless he was ill, or something I am not aware of, I do not see him mixing it up in the bunch kicks.

but I was too quick to pull the trigger, like BigBoat, so shame on me.

 

[benlondon]

Top 20 - who is not doping?

Of the top 20 right now, who do you believe is NOT doping?
I so want to believe in Garmin and VdV.

I'll try and return to the subject of this thread
Astanas - well you could name this team the Clinic after this forum. Bruneel & Armstrong have probably forgotten more about doping than most guys in the pro peleton ever knew & most of the rest of the team are known or suspected dopers too.
Garmin - I really think this team are clean
Sastre - he comes from a very doped country but just maybe he was the first clean tour winner since pre-Indurain when he won last year. Certainly I've never heard any convincing evidence that he dopes.
Cadel Evans - never heard any strong evidence that he dopes either. His performances are consistent but never super-human - looks clean to me.
Schleck brothers - the older one has known doping connections. Hard to believe Andy doesn't do what his big bro does.
Columbia riders - it's certainly predominantly a clean team. Any doping is likely to be very isolated. Again I don't see any superhuman performances in this team this year.

 

[BigBoat]

Its really sad whats happend to cycling, its too bad.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Its really sad whats happend to cycling, its too bad.

Don't get disillusioned BB - I think there are enough righteous people on this side of the forum and I think someday soon we will have a coup and overthrow the powers that be at the UCI and clean the place up...... so, what colour Ferrari would you like?

 

[BigBoat]

Don't get disillusioned BB - I think there are enough righteous people on this side of the forum and I think someday soon we will have a coup and overthrow the powers that be at the UCI and clean the place up...... so, what colour Ferrari would you like?

black maybe.

 

[A moron]

Sastre was the first clean tour winner since pre-Indurain when he won last year.

That's about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!

It's funny how people tend to believe someone's clean just because they like the guy...

 

[issoisso]

That's about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!

It's funny how people tend to believe someone's clean just because they like the guy...

The two most ridiculous often-repeated doping myths:

1. He's not doping, he's such a nice guy and he says he doesn't like dopers!
2. He's not doping, look at how much he suffers when he rides!

So ridiculous

 

[A moron]

The two most ridiculous often-repeated doping myths:

1. He's not doping, he's such a nice guy and he says he doesn't like dopers!
2. He's not doping, look at how much he suffers when he rides!

So ridiculous

3. He's never had a positive test
4. He's got a wife and children


I can't blame anyone for doing it actually... And not everyone doing it, is a bad person per se! I just think it's a question of character and personal choice.

 

[Irish2009]

That's about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!

It's funny how people tend to believe someone's clean just because they like the guy...

Strangely the Pros call him "Mr Clean". That says something about him and alot about the rest.

 

[blackcat]

Strangely the Pros call him "Mr Clean". That says something about him and alot about the rest.

you cant seriously believe you can be clean a tt like Sastre did last year in the final tt, after 20 days, and his Alpe d'Huez solo. That is BS Irish2009

 

[Epicycle]

Of the top 20 right now, who do you believe is NOT doping?
I so want to believe in Garmin and VdV.

Monfort is a guy with a good reputation. He's in 12th right now but won't stay that high.

 

[A moron]

Strangely the Pros call him "Mr Clean". That says something about him and alot about the rest.

Aha, strangely I've never heard a Pro referring to Sastre as Mr.Clean... And I don't think anyone who has ever worked with Rihs is clean...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Strangely the Pros call him "Mr Clean". That says something about him and alot about the rest.

I don't know for a fact, but I think this nickname is not a reference to doping, but to his lifestyle. That being, he's a polite, quiet man, maybe a family man. He probably never partied growing up, and doesn't do flashy things, and probably eats a healthy diet, no alcohol, etc. You might chuckle a little at this, but I'm thinking that's how it got started.

Benpounder has a point, but you need to re-read his post and when he says "clean", interpret to mean "not completely jacked".

 

[Bala Verde]

4. He's got a wife and children

Like Ricco who just named his child Alberto 'in honor' of his buddy Contador?

 

[beroepsrenner]

Christian Vande Velde broke his leg about two months ago. Pretty miraculous recovery really if he is clean.

Up there with Svein Tuft in the credibility stakes.

You underestimate the ability of the human body to heal itself, especially that of a supremely fit athlete. I once sustained a multiple fracture of the ankle. Indoor trainer in 2 weeks, on the road in 3 and racing again in 5 weeks. Long before doping came into my career!!

 

[TRDean]

Not anywhere near the top 20, but Skil-Shimano are clean.

No way in hell Wiggins is clean...just no way. Don't ask for proof...it is just my opinion.

 

[rolfrae]

No way in hell Wiggins is clean...just no way. Don't ask for proof...it is just my opinion.

I am being naive enough to think otherwise, and that's made him the focus of my cheering for this Tour, such as it's been. He has openly said that he's not doping, he's not the new Kohl, that he's doing it on bread and water. No other GC men are saying this (apart from CVV maybe). The others just say they don't test positive or avoid the topic altogether. I am taking Bradley at his word and will hunt him down and kick his skinny mod **** if he disappoints.

 

[TRDean]

I am being naive enough to think otherwise, and that's made him the focus of my cheering for this Tour, such as it's been. He has openly said that he's not doping, he's not the new Kohl, that he's doing it on bread and water. No other GC men are saying this (apart from CVV maybe). The others just say they don't test positive or avoid the topic altogether. I am taking Bradley at his word and will hunt him down and kick his skinny mod **** if he disappoints.

Fair enough!!

 

[the delgados]

re: "No other GC men are saying this..."

They don't have to. Since Wiggins is riding alongside them, he's essentially acting as their spokesperson.

Ya gotta believe!

Right? Guys...?

 

[craig1985]

Like Ricco who just named his child Alberto 'in honor' of his buddy Contador?

Out of interest, how many languages do you know?

 

[rolfrae]

re: "No other GC men are saying this..."

They don't have to. Since Wiggins is riding alongside them, he's essentially acting as their spokesperson.

Ya gotta believe!

Right? Guys...?

Well we'll wait and see if Wiggins is still riding alongside them on the penultimate day. You could spin this and say that by riding alongside Lance and AC, Wiggins is saying, look at me, I'm doped.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The two most ridiculous often-repeated doping myths:

1. He's not doping, he's such a nice guy and he says he doesn't like dopers! (like Tyler Hamilton, or Bernard Kohl)
2. He's not doping, look at how much he suffers when he rides! (like Francisco Mancebo)
3. He's never had a positive test (like Ivan Basso, or Jan Ullrich, or...).
4. He's got a wife and children (like Kayle Leogrande).

As to Wiggins. As I said before, by all logic, even with the weight loss, and concentrating on the Tour, being in his prime, etc, if he's clean, he really should finish many, many minutes back in Paris. Like, even with this boring risk-free Tour, an hour back or so. But if you see him on the Ventoux trying to hold his top-10 place, I'd be pretty suspicious.