Does 20% loss in body weight = 20% better time climbing?

[CoachFergie]

I have been coaching for 19 years and have never seen anyone lose muscle mass from bike riding. I did gymnastics from 1997 to 2001 and put on 10kg of upper body muscle and 9 years later on a diet of aerobic exercise it hasn't shifted. Sure some people diet and lose mass but very rare it would be from the exercise alone. I have seen some cyclists gain mass on riding alone.

Andy Coggan contributed some of his wisdom on wattage group about muscle mass increasing metabolic rate. Turns out that muscle is not very metabolically active by comparison to the more vital organs.

Another chestnut is doing weights to correct muscle imbalances. A quick perusal of the non traumatic injuries from cycling show that the main causes of injury are poor bike fit, too low or too high a cadence and too rapid an increase in training progression (freq, time or intensity). Muscle imbalances don't even make most lists.

 

[Indurain]

Can you please give me a link to this 'Wattage Group'. It sounds really interesting.

 

[CoachFergie]

http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/

 

[Elegant Degenerate]

I have been coaching for 19 years and have never seen anyone lose muscle mass from bike riding. I did gymnastics from 1997 to 2001 and put on 10kg of upper body muscle and 9 years later on a diet of aerobic exercise it hasn't shifted. Sure some people diet and lose mass but very rare it would be from the exercise alone.

I'll second that. Diet is a pretty big factor in losing muscle mass.

 

[durianrider]

Your equation may not become your performance reality unless you couple dieting with weigh-bearing workouts: soccer, walking, basketball, tennis, and the like. You want to lose fat and not muscle mass. Cycling, while great exercise, won't help you drop the weight efficiently.

A healthy equation looks like this:

Diet (low fat + low-glycemic carbs + high protein) + Exercise (50% weight-bearing + 50% cycling) + 10-12 weeks time (you're a bloke, right?) = -20kg

This will let you sustain the weight loss.

Good luck!

Low carbs + high protein = bonking on each ride and eventual failure.
High carb, low fat, low protein = sufficient daily glycogen stores to avoid the bonk that most people experience daily in life and wonder why they dont have the 'motivation' to train enough to experience the feeling of being super fit.

Ive worked in the health & fitness industry for over a decade. Ive seen the fads and taken advice from crew that have been working in it for over 6 decades. High protein diets = failure big time.

 

[durianrider]

I have been coaching for 19 years and have never seen anyone lose muscle mass from bike riding. I did gymnastics from 1997 to 2001 and put on 10kg of upper body muscle and 9 years later on a diet of aerobic exercise it hasn't shifted. Sure some people diet and lose mass but very rare it would be from the exercise alone. I have seen some cyclists gain mass on riding alone.

Andy Coggan contributed some of his wisdom on wattage group about muscle mass increasing metabolic rate. Turns out that muscle is not very metabolically active by comparison to the more vital organs.

Another chestnut is doing weights to correct muscle imbalances. A quick perusal of the non traumatic injuries from cycling show that the main causes of injury are poor bike fit, too low or too high a cadence and too rapid an increase in training progression (freq, time or intensity). Muscle imbalances don't even make most lists.

Youve never seen someone lose muscle mass from cycling? How come bodybuilders keep their cardio low?

Have a look at these shots of Lance. Guess which one is him racing the bike and winning the TDF.

 

[durianrider]

Indurain, post a photo of yourself in your cycling kit. You could be a gun climber at 100kg depending on your body composition.

The Boonen/Contador analogy is very true. Both couldnt ride well if they change their body composition from what it is now.

You could starve down another 20kg and become a weak rider or you could eat heaps of carbs and train down another 20kg and become a gun rider. But like I said, depends on what you look like now. You might not ride better weighing less than a 100kg. Put up a photo and I will give you MHO.

Ive trained with some of the best climbers in the world ie: Contador, Lance, Cadel, Periero, Rubiera,Valverde, Moreau etc and Ive gleened a few tips in my travels.

A good mate of mine was 92kg and untouchable on the climbs when he raced and so was another at 56kg. It all depends on what your chassi looks like in its current state. A 20% gain or loss in bodyweight could equate to a 100% gain or loss in climbing time. One could go from 20mins up a climb to 10mins or they could go from 10mins to 20mins. Heck just run out of carbs or dehydrate yourself and watch how slow your climbing gets in just 30mins !!

 

[hughmoore]

You could starve down another 20kg and become a weak rider or you could eat heaps of carbs and train down another 20kg and become a gun rider.

What Carbs are you suggesting, I need to drop more kgs also.

Ive come a long way and am the in best condition for years, but still would like to get rid of another 10 to get down to 90kg.



regards


Hugh

 

[Indurain]

I'd prefer not to put a photo up, but needless to say my stomach measures about 105cm (obese range). I am 5ft 10inches. My legs are quite naturally large due to muscle in the thighs (always have been). My **** muscles are also quite largeand my race weight from my 20's was 74kg's. Didn't have much fat on me then. But climbed mountains average, hills quite well and timetrialled well over all distances.

Now I sprint on a flat at 58 to 60km'h unassisted. Climb hills okay while still feeling power, but my weight takes it's toll and so my power is limited. Can still climb the mountains but tend to spin up them. Not very fast.

In short I still look overweight, but not as much as I use too. Got a long way to go. Taking it slowly tends to be the consensus here. But surely I can get my power back eventually even if i do do it quickly??

 

[Polyarmour]

The Boonen/Contador analogy is very true. Both couldnt ride well if they change their body composition from what it is now.

I thought a better analogy would be to compare an overweight Tom Boonen with an in form Tom Boonen.

You could starve down another 20kg and become a weak rider or you could eat heaps of carbs and train down another 20kg and become a gun rider. But like I said, depends on what you look like now. You might not ride better weighing less than a 100kg. Put up a photo and I will give you MHO.

What would you be looking for in terms of body shape? Surely riders come in all sorts of body shapes but at the Pro level they have one thing in common and that is low body fat?

 

[straydog]

....brevity

You could starve down another 20kg and become a weak rider or you could eat heaps of carbs and train down another 20kg and become a gun rider. But like I said, depends on what you look like now. You might not ride better weighing less than a 100kg. Put up a photo and I will give you MHO.

Ive trained with some of the best climbers in the world ie: Contador, Lance, Cadel, Periero, Rubiera,Valverde, Moreau etc and Ive gleened a few tips in my travels.

A good mate of mine was 92kg and untouchable on the climbs when he raced and so was another at 56kg. It all depends on what your chassi looks like in its current state. A 20% gain or loss in bodyweight could equate to a 100% gain or loss in climbing time. One could go from 20mins up a climb to 10mins or they could go from 10mins to 20mins. Heck just run out of carbs or dehydrate yourself and watch how slow your climbing gets in just 30mins !!

Durian. Listen, your assertion of a carb heavy diet, isn't something I take issue with per se. Carbs play a hugely important role in glycogen storage and helping to maintain "muscularity". The reason I agree with Tifosa on upping your protein intake is as follows:

Unless you are very careful with your calorific intake from carbs, no matter how much you train, you can find yourself increasing weight and body fat. Any unused carbs are converted and stored by the body as fat. This however, is not so true of protein, which is much less efficiently converted and stored as fat.

A high protein diet isn't a fad. A no carb diet is. As for that matter is a fruit only diet, or a carb only diet.

And you are right, there are plenty of heavy riders who are good climbers. However, if their body fat percentage is unnecessarily high, then some of their weight is redundant and detrimental to their climbing.

I agree with Coach Fergie to some extent, that, cycling alone, won't lead to a loss of any unwanted muscle mass. Careful Diet combined with specific exercise, however, will.

 

[neonpatrick]

The lose of 20% weight from the body will not effects a lot but can makes body little weaker.Taking consumption of healthy food in diet and eating more fruits make body healthy. The lose of 20 % weight ,in my opinion is the best for climbing.