Does Armstrong have a monopoly on the best PEDs?

[flicker]

You forgot one thing-the graceless, tactless manner in which he tried to internally destroy a team that he walked onto and how he boorishly attempted to maneuver and bully his way to the front when his legs clearly could not compete for the position.

And all in the name of cancer awareness.

I agree with you on the Contador issue. Lance proved what a bore he is.

And he is an A-hole also, I grant you that. I point that out to my kids.

Other than those issues I have no problem with him, I think his comeback from cancer and coming out of retirement are awesome. I hope he wins the tour. Highly entertaining.

About his other tour wins, the people in the Clinic have convinced me that he is a suspect however still uncaught.

I also havn't a problem with his Livestrong organization. It gives people and cancer victims hope. Where the money goes is not my business.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I agree with you on the Contador issue. Lance proved what a bore he is.

And he is an A-hole also, I grant you that. I point that out to my kids.

Other than those issues I have no problem with him, I think his comeback from cancer and coming out of retirement are awesome. I hope he wins the tour. Highly entertaining.

About his other tour wins, the people in the Clinic have convinced me that he is a suspect however still uncaught.

I also havn't a problem with his Livestrong organization. It gives people and cancer victims hope. Where the money goes is not my business.

It doesn't bother you any that money people think they are donating to help fight cancer may have actually financed the seduction grotto of Lance's swimming pool?

 

[Digger]

It doesn't bother you any that money people think they are donating to help fight cancer may have actually financed the seduction grotto of Lance's swimming pool?

Spreading the seed of hope.

 

[flicker]

It doesn't bother you any that money people think they are donating to help fight cancer may have actually financed the seduction grotto of Lance's swimming pool?

Not if it is better than Hugh Hefners seduction grotto.

Remember, Texas is a right to work state and Lance is generating work.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Not if it is better than Hugh Hefners seduction grotto.

Remember, Texas is a right to work state and Lance is generating work.

Oh puleez.

 

[flicker]

Oh puleez.

Like I said before I am into this bike racing for entertainment. I try not to delve into Lances' finances. Nor do I read Lance to Landis by Walsh. I would not watch cycling if I read that book.

I am boycotting Nike for not paying owed wages to factory workers in British Honduras.

 

[3rdWheel]

And how exactly would that be different for any rider? Or any professional athlete for that matter?

Part of the reason that a lot of people don't like LA is because of his personality, ie that he's a bit of an ***, which has nothing to do with doping. It's the same in any sport: as a hockey fan, I can tell you that a lot of people simply hated Wayne Gretzky, because they thought he was arrogant. A lot of people hated Eric Lindros, because he was a bit of an ***. A lot of people don't like Sidney Crosby, cause they think he's a crybaby.

But as it is, the main reason that so many cycling fans don't like LA is because he was almost certainly doping, because he got away with it, because he's continuously lied about it, because of the way he treated Simoni and Bassons etc, and because of the hypocrisy of his holier-than-thou attitude about doping.

I don't think I implied it would be different for any other popular cyclist or athlete. I'm just speaking to this thread which is about LA. It's clear to me there are multiple reasons people dislike the guy. Some of which you point out in your post.

 

[theswordsman]

You forgot one thing-the graceless, tactless manner in which he tried to internally destroy a team that he walked onto and how he boorishly attempted to maneuver and bully his way to the front when his legs clearly could not compete for the position.

And all in the name of cancer awareness.

Exactly. I've got friends, including some in the cycling media, who, like me, were excited about the comeback. And I still have no opinion about his performances prior to last year's TDF. He lost us as fans because of his actions. Taunting the press at the Giro when some called him on the Milan stage. Trying to steal Astana before the Tour. Wheel Gate, and everything else that happened at the TdF. Character assassination. Him and Bruyneel raiding Astana even though a lot of the riders had contracts for this year. On and on.

People try to give me a rough time because I post Spanish articles about Contador here that never make it into English. I do it because Armstrong and his ilk have put a lot of effort into trying to convince people that Alberto is a dumb liar with attributes pretty much identical to Lance himself. So when I read someone saying that the story about Contador being at the beach when he got the call about the Giro is a lie, and that he has some kind of scientific proof, I'll do the research (in Spanish articles), and post one with the link showing it was the third day of a five day vacation, and that his fiancee presented the hotel bill to a journalist at the time. Contador isn't a liar, folks, and when I get active on the LA thread, it's because he is one. Not because of old (pre-2009) samples. This next one is the reason I don't stop, part of a two stage attack with Bruyneel working another prong.
Translated by Google

Complete bull****
In this interview, Armstrong will again return to the facts and should Contador extended response after his aspirations in Pisa. It bothers him immensely that Alberto Contador - to his liking - still peddle falsehood, even now their paths separated and Armstrong next year at Radio Shack drives.
"If you play the Tour for the second time you win and you're the king of Spain, it is normal that all stories are allright. His career has barely begun. Let us talk again about fifteen years. When I subsequently the Spanish media during the Tour had to face, I fell from one surprise to another. We talked little about the atmosphere in the team, but they apparently do.If you read some Spanish sports newspaper Marca as distributed each day: so many dirty things, unbelievable. Complete bull****, mucus pieces, fat lies.They said we were behind him during the Tour. Yeah. Recently he declared that he had no time trial wheels as I explained during the tour. Yeah. (Evil) First, this is not correct. Secondly, it is easy to prove. You only have to grab the phone and bicycle manufacturer Trek to call. I understand that the Spanish media after their hero, but it was so untrue what was printed. Come on, at the end of the day as a journalist, you ****ing do proclaim the truth. ' "

' "No decision Astana at the Tour took was against Contador. Not at all. The best example is La Grande-Motte (the waaierrit, red).He felt this as an attack on him, and so are the Spanish media. I was in a bike race and had a radio on. Every five minutes we heard all Johan Bruyneel call: Stay in the front. Keep the front. Everything I did then, was what I was supposed to do. Someone told me that he himself caused the rift in the group. "

"The conclusion is that eight of the nine riders in the Tour reason, gone. To another team. Even his room mate. "

If this had happened to you, you left alone with a Tour-winning team?

"I'd long look in the mirror. I would never let that happen. Never. If I had to change itself to prevent it, then I would do that. If they needed more money, I would make. I would do anything for them. "

"If Contador is totally different from me. It is also very difficult. He knows no better. He's a Spanish guy who is still in the same pueblo (district) resident. He has his friends, family, the street where he grew, his country, his people. Such great athletes as they should hire people who support him, be patient with him. But he is surrounded by yes-men. They say to him a lot of 'yes'. Johan Bruyneel also says a lot yes, but if he say no, he says effectively 'no': Lance, you're wrong, this is not correct. As it should. "

Contador would be the prize money distributed to teammates, but not like in your time have given extra money. He did not now, nor was he the first time the Tour, Giro and Vuelta win.

(Evasive) I do not know. I know I never took a penny. I let all year round all my money in the teamkas down. Tour winner if I did still have my own two cents. In 2004 I gave $ 80,000 (around 55,000 euros) in men. The prize money was around 500,000 euros. For sixth Tour Victory gave myself 10 million U.S. dollars. ' Seventh for 12.5 million U.S. dollars. "

Can you actually still pals with Contador at the Tour Road soon, make small talk?
(His face says it all) No, I see it differently.There are always guys that you have less lot, and it carries a squad of two hundred people. I do Contador really not so good. I worked with him one day in Castilla y León (where Armstrong was, red) and three weeks in the Tour. I am impressed by the athlete, but it stops for me. "
"I've long been Prof. When I after eighteen years on the day of reckoning for all my teammates, fans and sponsors to appear, then I think I will still enjoy what they find about me. I've always been loyal.I change nothing, unless I have to. "

How was working with the Kazakh Astana bosses?
"I never shook a Kazak hand, I met no one, my teammate Dmitriy Muravyev except that it went to Radio Shack. They were nonetheless excellent opportunities. In the U.S. state of Kazakhstan as the film Borat. So the Americans think about this country. A good film but not exactly publicity for Kazakhstan. No American will be there holiday to book. They had me with the opportunity to tell a different story but they did no problem. Anyway, I have enough things to do '.

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail.aspx?articleid=G8O2KA8D4

 

[Jonathan]

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail.aspx?articleid=G8O2KA8D4

Armstrong seems to hold Contador responsible for what the Spanish press wrote. It's all just sad.

 

[Galic Ho]

Then why wasn't Vino winning the 07 tour? Why wasn't anybody else he worked with after LA retired win a GT?

What a coincidence....the only reason LA won was because of Ferrari but once LA retired the other docs improved. Thus, Ferrari stopped being the best in August 2005. But, he may be working with LA again so he probably is better than everybody again. His words are worth a 20% increase for sure.

You guys can convince yourself of anything.

At it once again. Some people never cease to amaze me with their one sided nonsense.

Vino would have won the 2007 Tour if not for one minor hiccup. He fell very badly in the first week. He'd won the 2006 Vuelta and was the strongest rider in the peloton that year. He blew out one day in the mountains and the next he put a whole minute into second in place in the second ITT. Did I forget to mention he had 60 stitches in his knee? But I'm sure you missed all of that along with his win in the Dauphine as well. The only rider in 2007 who could have beaten Vino had he not fallen and blown all his chances was Rasmussen. Those two were quite some way ahead of Contador and then Evans and Leipheimer.

As for the rest of your post. Who cares? Who hasn't had their name linked to Ferrari, Chechi or Fuentes and won a GT? This whole does he dope riders and who are they tit for tat is pointless. The guy knows his stuff and it works wonders. LA is proof of that. Who are the others. There are dozens, but it isn't like the guy leaves his calling card on each consultancy. You've been on this forum often enough, most here have heard the names Ferrari worked with after 2005. Monopoly was over and the man has skills and a demand to fill. Supply and demand. Microeconomics 101.

 

[flicker]

Exactly. I've got friends, including some in the cycling media, who, like me, were excited about the comeback. And I still have no opinion about his performances prior to last year's TDF. He lost us as fans because of his actions. Taunting the press at the Giro when some called him on the Milan stage. Trying to steal Astana before the Tour. Wheel Gate, and everything else that happened at the TdF. Character assassination. Him and Bruyneel raiding Astana even though a lot of the riders had contracts for this year. On and on.

People try to give me a rough time because I post Spanish articles about Contador here that never make it into English. I do it because Armstrong and his ilk have put a lot of effort into trying to convince people that Alberto is a dumb liar with attributes pretty much identical to Lance himself. So when I read someone saying that the story about Contador being at the beach when he got the call about the Giro is a lie, and that he has some kind of scientific proof, I'll do the research (in Spanish articles), and post one with the link showing it was the third day of a five day vacation, and that his fiancee presented the hotel bill to a journalist at the time. Contador isn't a liar, folks, and when I get active on the LA thread, it's because he is one. Not because of old (pre-2009) samples. This next one is the reason I don't stop, part of a two stage attack with Bruyneel working another prong.
Translated by Google


http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail.aspx?articleid=G8O2KA8D4

Who cares what Lance makes? Pure entertainment. Free. Astanas fine they have the best rider in the world(Contador) and a spirited captain(Vinokurov)
Astana will do great this year. Everything that happened at Astana was a deal between Vino, Lance Bruyneel Contador. There was no gutting only business. Sometimes I think Borat was right you Americans are simplistic.

 

[Cervelo77]

>>Armstrong was also a huge talent as a kid. Big potential as a one day classics rider....but he could not climb or TT.

Umm, hasn't this been covered before? Cancer caused him to lose all of his muscle mass, and when he started training again he came back with a much leaner build. Charmichael got him to buy into high tempo climbing. Doping did not turn Eric Zabel into a climber. I'm not saying Armstrong didn't dope, but doping would not turn him into a great climber without the physiological changes that were brought on by his illness.

I see only two possibilities for the current LA. One possibility is that he is full of hubris and is doped, and believes he will always get away with using PEDs. The other is that he is smart enough to realize that he has far more to lose if he were caught now than at any other time in his life. The second is more likely because I do not believe LA is a stupid man, or surrounds himself with stupid people. The second scenario raises an uncomfortable question for those that would convict him of doping: he rode with the top men in the sport in the 2009 TDF, so if he is clean now, doesn't it seem likely that he would have been capable of being at the top in his prime riding years?

LA is an a-hole, but he's also one of the most competitive people, period. The two kind of go together. If you want to hold hands and watch the sun set, a competitive cycling environment probably isn't the place to hang out. Remember, for all the jabbering between Contador and LA last year, LA still rode proper tactics. I don't know if Contador could have asked for anything else.

 

[theswordsman]

Armstrong seems to hold Contador responsible for what the Spanish press wrote. It's all just sad.

Hmm. That seems to have migrated over from another thread. The thing is, the Spanish press printed the truth. And the story about the Time Trial Wheels originated in La Gazzetta dello Sport, which is definitely not Spanish.

He spins things. For instance, I started following him on twitter the day he signed up. It wasn't too much after that that I was blogging his comeback, looking at everything that hit Google News, YouTube, and lots of other sources so I could save other fans time by printing excerpts of the best articles with links, twitpics, embedded videos, etc. I was unemployed, and needed a project since I'd finished my MBA. It didn't take a lot of time to leave a window open on Google News, and hit the refresh button every couple of hours. I tweeted Lance the link, again while he didn't have many followers. I also posted the link at LanceArmstrong.com and a couple of other places. I know from a stats counter that he visited the website, and Livestrong kept a pretty close eye on it.

It wasn't long after when he did a long interview with Guardian UK, and to discredit Betsy Andreu, he said that she still blogs about him 24 hours a day, "how sick is that?". Betsy made them correct the article, saying she had never had a blog. He had taken the idea of my blog and used it to make her look bad in the press. It's what he does, and no one calls him on it.

On topic for this thread, I think Armstrong probably did own blood transfusions, or infusions, for the 2009 Tour, based on the blood profiles and the police investigation. That posed no threat to his reputation, as there was no test. And Lance's hubris and personality were enough to have him post his values online, knowing that he cheated. It's like in the Het Nieuwsblad article where he said Contador lied about the wheels, and that people could call Trek and find out. He knew it was a lie, and he knew that no one would call him on it. The same was the case with the blood values - it's like he dared people to take on his power.

I don't know as much as most Clinic people about doping processes, but knowing that guys can pass tests using various methods if they have 20 or 30 minutes notice, and remembering the shower first incident, and the complaints against the UCI by the AFLD, I think it's pretty obvious he was cheating last year. And I don't even want to think about what kind of politics might be helping him. I was counting on the French police until Sarkozy rescheduled his day around accepting the bike. I hoped he had gotten one of the 30 day letters from the UCI, but I have no faith in them.

 

[luckyboy]

>>Armstrong was also a huge talent as a kid. Big potential as a one day classics rider....but he could not climb or TT.

Umm, hasn't this been covered before? Cancer caused him to lose all of his muscle mass, and when he started training again he came back with a much leaner build. Charmichael got him to buy into high tempo climbing. Doping did not turn Eric Zabel into a climber. I'm not saying Armstrong didn't dope, but doping would not turn him into a great climber without the physiological changes that were brought on by his illness.

This has been covered many times on this forum. Use search. There are no concrete numbers for his weight at any point in his career, and losing all his muscle mass would do him no good at all. I've read quite a few times that high cadence climbing is no more efficient than riding at a low tempo. Also, people respond to EPO in different ways. Bjarne Riis won the Tour de France. Many others will be able to add to all this, but I just can't be bothered. It's been done to death.

I see only two possibilities for the current LA. One possibility is that he is full of hubris and is doped, and believes he will always get away with using PEDs. The other is that he is smart enough to realize that he has far more to lose if he were caught now than at any other time in his life. The second is more likely because I do not believe LA is a stupid man, or surrounds himself with stupid people. The second scenario raises an uncomfortable question for those that would convict him of doping: he rode with the top men in the sport in the 2009 TDF, so if he is clean now, doesn't it seem likely that he would have been capable of being at the top in his prime riding years?

There is no evidence that he has been clean in his comeback. The Tour values he posted on his website were suspicious, the crit barely dropping through the three weeks. There is no way that those are the blood test results of a clean rider. Read this - http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2009/armstrong-tour-blood-values-suspicious

LA is an a-hole, but he's also one of the most competitive people, period.

Doesn't it stand to reason that the more competitive you are, the more you're going to do to win?

 

[graviT]

I've read quite a few times that high cadence climbing is no more efficient than riding at a low tempo.

I've read a lot of things a few times but that doesn't make them true. Yes, there are studies out there that report minimal efficiency differences between slow and fast cadences. What those studies are trying to do is understand what decades of experienced cyclists have determined through on the bike training which is that faster pedaling cadences delay fatigue and speed recovery. That some studies report minimal efficiency differences merely demonstrates the difficulty of reproducing and monitoring real world conditions in the laboratory.

Here's a decent reference . Read down to the bottom where it discusses the 1992 study performed by Alquist et al on slow and fast twitch muscle recruitment at different pedaling cadences.

http://www2.bsn.de/Cycling/articles/cadence.html

 

[Digger]

>>Armstrong was also a huge talent as a kid. Big potential as a one day classics rider....but he could not climb or TT.

Umm, hasn't this been covered before? Cancer caused him to lose all of his muscle mass, and when he started training again he came back with a much leaner build. Charmichael got him to buy into high tempo climbing. Doping did not turn Eric Zabel into a climber. I'm not saying Armstrong didn't dope, but doping would not turn him into a great climber without the physiological changes that were brought on by his illness.

I see only two possibilities for the current LA. One possibility is that he is full of hubris and is doped, and believes he will always get away with using PEDs. The other is that he is smart enough to realize that he has far more to lose if he were caught now than at any other time in his life. The second is more likely because I do not believe LA is a stupid man, or surrounds himself with stupid people. The second scenario raises an uncomfortable question for those that would convict him of doping: he rode with the top men in the sport in the 2009 TDF, so if he is clean now, doesn't it seem likely that he would have been capable of being at the top in his prime riding years?

LA is an a-hole, but he's also one of the most competitive people, period. The two kind of go together. If you want to hold hands and watch the sun set, a competitive cycling environment probably isn't the place to hang out. Remember, for all the jabbering between Contador and LA last year, LA still rode proper tactics. I don't know if Contador could have asked for anything else.

Figures for this weight loss. Because according to Ed Coyle and Lance at the SCA trial, his weight loss was two pounds. But let me guess, you'll pull out the photograph from the 1993 Worlds, and you'll tell me that the weight loss is obvious. Sorry, but I'll stick with the figures.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Figures for this weight loss. Because according to Ed Coyle and Lance at the SCA trial, his weight loss was two pounds. But let me guess, you'll pull out the photograph from the 1993 Worlds, and you'll tell me that the weight loss is obvious. Sorry, but I'll stick with the figures.

The last VIP (chemos) were inpatient...cycles 3 and 4 I was sick as a dog, but I didn't lose any weight. One thing I don't understand--you're in this place where they're trying to make people better, trying to heal people--and they serve this food, it has to kill people.

Lance Armstrong interview with the Testicular Cancer Resource Center February 1997.

 

[9000ft]

LA has an in with the secret world government too. All those black helicopters with the cloaking devices deliver multi million dollar dope to LA and only LA. The secret world government also controls all the anti doping agencies and labs that have allowed LA to escape undetected all these years. It's all a grand conspiracy by the vast LA organization to dominate all of world cycling for the benefit of Livestrong which is simply a front to enslave millions of fanboys and fangirls with yellow bracelets that contain a secret brain toxin that prevents them from seeing the truth.

Without his dope, all the posters here could kick his sorry a$$ and the grand, vast Lance Armstrong conspiracy would be exposed.

Yes, this is a troll, the thread deserves it.

 

[Anonymous]

LA has an in with the secret world government too. All those black helicopters with the cloaking devices deliver multi million dollar dope to LA and only LA. The secret world government also controls all the anti doping agencies and labs that have allowed LA to escape undetected all these years. It's all a grand conspiracy by the vast LA organization to dominate all of world cycling for the benefit of Livestrong which is simply a front to enslave millions of fanboys and fangirls with yellow bracelets that contain a secret brain toxin that prevents them from seeing the truth.

Without his dope, all the posters here could kick his sorry a$$ and the grand, vast Lance Armstrong conspiracy would be exposed.

Yes, this is a troll, the thread deserves it.

But not a very good one. You didn't insult our intelligence enough, there are no Hitler references, and you didn't talk about how we love cancer. You need some work on your Trollkraft. I give lessons. Email me and I will send you my fee schedule.

 

[Digger]

Lance Armstrong interview with the Testicular Cancer Resource Center February 1997.

For a doctor you sure love cancer.