Does Contador have what it takes, MENTALY, to be a consistant champion??

[Belokki]

Come now. Use some critical thinking skills.

Contador is obviously not an overhyped bust. 5 grand tours, 2 being in the same year, does not warrant that criticism. An overhyped bust could be seen as someone that never wins, but has the expectations to do so.

I wouldn't call Contador's opponents bums and relics. Armstrong and Simoni are the only 'relics'. And I wouldn't call Levi, Kloden, Cadel, Vandevelde, Menchov, Sastre, Valverde, Frank Schleck, Wiggins, Basso, and Ricco 'bums'. They definitely have heartbeats and most have won big races.

I never called Basso, Menchov, Kloden bums, the rest are consistent riders, but they were always fighting for scraps when the big guns(Ullrich, Basso, Lance, Vino, etc) were around...

 

[scribe]

I hope he still is going for the Giro/Tour double next season. I think Shrek put the fear of god into him though. He'll probably relent and focus on one event, like some of us think he will.

 

[hrotha]

I never called Basso, Menchov, Kloden bums, the rest are consistent riders, but they were always fighting for scraps when the big guns(Ullrich, Basso, Lance, Vino, etc) were around...

Again, NONE of those riders were at Lance's level. Only Ullrich for 10 days or so during the 2003 Tour. The rest earned your respect by placing 3rd, 4th, 5th without being real contenders. Just as the people you accuse now of being bums.

 

[AtletiSK]

I never called Basso, Menchov, Kloden bums, the rest are consistent riders, but they were always fighting for scraps when the big guns(Ullrich, Basso, Lance, Vino, etc) were around...

very strange criteria:
as far as I know Vino´s best TdF result is third place from 2003
Kloden finished runner-up twice (and has never been suspended for doping)
btw. Cadel Evans - also never caught as doper - Contador´s direct rival finished Top5 on 6 ocassions in GTs - with exception of Ullrich no other rival of LA has similar record

 

[Belokki]

very strange criteria:
as far as I know Vino´s best TdF result is third place from 2003
Kloden finished runner-up twice (and has never been suspended for doping)
btw. Cadel Evans - also never caught as doper - Contador´s direct rival finished Top5 on 6 ocassions in GTs - with exception of Ullrich no other rival of LA has similar record

Kloden, Vino were in their primes in the Lance era! Years after that, they are still among the best! I
If you were a rider in a stage race going for the GC win, who do you think would be the tougher opponent, Vino or Cadel?
Vino at 35!, riding clean, droped Alberto on stage 3 and had a very good TDF...
Clean or doped, the same riders are on the top!!

 

[scribe]

Kloden, Vino were in their primes in the Lance era! Years after that, they are still among the best! I
If you were a rider in a stage race going for the GC win, who do you think would be the tougher opponent, Vino or Cadel?
Vino at 35!, riding clean, droped Alberto on stage 3 and had a very good TDF...
Clean or doped, the same riders are on the top!!

OK. Now you've lost me.

 

[AtletiSK]

Kloden, Vino were in their primes in the Lance era! Years after that, they are still among the best! I
If you were a rider in a stage race going for the GC win, who do you think would be the tougher opponent, Vino or Cadel?
Vino at 35!, riding clean, droped Alberto on stage 3 and had a very good TDF...
Clean or doped, the same riders are on the top!!

my answer based on pure facts has to be Cadel - he finished runner-up twice, Vino was third once

 

[fixedgear]

Please stop.

Vino dropped his teammate because the unworthy teammate had a broken spoke. Cadel was looking like a serious threat until he fell and broke his elbow. Next?

 

[Belokki]

my answer based on pure facts has to be Cadel - he finished runner-up twice, Vino was third once

Yes! But he was beaten by the likes of Lance, Ullrich, Basso and Kloden, no shame in that...

 

[hrotha]

Yes! But he was beaten by the likes of Lance, Ullrich, Basso and Kloden, no shame in that...

Isn't your argument a bit circular?

 

[BYOP88]

yes it was better, but thats not the point...

Is he good enough to reach the heights of Merckxs, Anquetil, Hinault, Indurain, Armstrong or will he crack aggainst the first opponent with a pulse he faces?

Right Armstrong isn't a "great" rider at best he's a good rider. Lets look back at his time before cancer he was a decent one day rider and yes a World Champion and picked up a couple of stage wins in the Tour but if his career carried on that path nobody would call him a "great". Then after cancer he comes back focuses only on the Tour and becomes the record holder for that but how many would the others have won if they just rode the Tour?(How many would Thys have won if WW1 hadn't happened or how many would Bartali won if WW2 hadn't happened?) Also the other riders in your list all did a GT double in a year not once but twice something Armstrong didn't attempt.

Now if a guy comes along and wins 8 editions of Milan-San Remo does that make him the "greatest" classics rider of all time or just a very good Milan-San Remo rider?

 

[franciep10]

Kloden, Vino were in their primes in the Lance era! Years after that, they are still among the best! I
If you were a rider in a stage race going for the GC win, who do you think would be the tougher opponent, Vino or Cadel?
Vino at 35!, riding clean, droped Alberto on stage 3 and had a very good TDF...
Clean or doped, the same riders are on the top!!

 

[jazzcyclist]

I think that Contador may have over-learned some of his lessons over the last couple of years. In the past, he was accused of being to impetuous and reckless with his attacks, but now he seems too conservative. After stage 15 he got accused of lacking sportsmanship, which I think lead to his decision to gift stage 17 to Schleck. And I don't buy this crap about owing Schleck the stage since he did the work, because the only reason Schleck paced Contador up the Tourmalet was because he was trying to crack him. In the words of the great Bernard Hinault: "Pas de Cadeaux"

 

[AtletiSK]

Yes! But he was beaten by the likes of Lance, Ullrich, Basso and Kloden, no shame in that...

my very last comment in this stupid thread:
you compare uncomparable things and adjust facts as you like, you started a discussion without any possible conclussion because you compare if 2007 runner-up was better than 2005 runner-up...that is ridiculous
every season, every race is different, riders have different form and there are different conditions, everybody reaches the prime of his career at different age...
this thread just shows how little you understand cycling... I am sorry

 

[Belokki]

Right Armstrong isn't a "great" rider at best he's a good rider. Lets look back at his time before cancer he was a decent one day rider and yes a World Champion and picked up a couple of stage wins in the Tour but if his career carried on that path nobody would call him a "great". Then after cancer he comes back focuses only on the Tour and becomes the record holder for that but how many would the others have won if they just rode the Tour?(How many would Thys have won if WW1 hadn't happened or how many would Bartali won if WW2 hadn't happened?) Also the other riders in your list all did a GT double in a year not once but twice something Armstrong didn't attempt.

Now if a guy comes along and wins 8 editions of Milan-San Remo does that make him the "greatest" classics rider of all time or just a very good Milan-San Remo rider?

if Milan-San Remo is the 'greatest' single day classic and if he wins it than yes, he is among the 'greats' in cycling and the 'greatest' rider in the history of that race...

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

His opposition has been dredfull until the near present!
.... yadda yadda yadda

Ah, yes. The changing goal post routine.

Ignore.

 

[Belokki]

my very last comment in this stupid thread:
you compare uncomparable things and adjust facts as you like, you started a discussion without any possible conclussion because you compare if 2007 runner-up was better than 2005 runner-up...that is ridiculous
every season, every race is different, riders have different form and there are different conditions, everybody reaches the prime of his career at different age...
this thread just shows how little you understand cycling... I am sorry

fine we dont agree!

I will certanly not agree with you on 2007 Cadel being better than 2005 Basso!
A human males prime is betwen 25-30 years!
Cadel at the age of 28 was 8th in 2005 and 30 when he was runner up! he was in his prime years in both ocasions, the difference being in 2005, he faced better opposition and was left behind!

In 2005 he rode aggainst: Basso, Vino, Ullrich, Levi, Armstrong, Rasmussen all left him behind!

In 2007 he rode aggainst Conti, Rasmussen, and Levi! Rasmussen left him behind, but was removed from the Tour for violation of team rules, not being available for doping control somwhere in spring and that came to bite him in the ***, and Conti left him behind

You cant even mention the opposition in the same sentence! Grotesc difference...

 

[Belokki]

Ah, yes. The changing goal post routine.

Ignore.

LOLOLOL! What will I do without you??? Who were you again? never seen ya... no mater, by

 

[The Hitch]

i think contador showed this year he has what it takes. THis was an underperformance from him. He still won. Next year he will be better. I asked in my stage 17 build up "will schleck ever get this close again". I am not sure. Contador will be much stronger the next few years (and after that someone else might challenge him).

 

[jazzcyclist]

I don't know if it's fair to compare the Armstrong-Ullrich era to the Contador-Scleck era since it's commonly accepted wisdom that the Schleck-Contador era is cleaner. By the way, does anyone know if the Armstrong-Pantani ascent of Mount Ventoux in 2000 was faster than the Schleck-Contador ascent in 2009?

 

[Dedelou]

yes it was better, but thats not the point...

Is he good enough to reach the heights of Merckxs, Anquetil, Hinault, Indurain, Armstrong or will he crack aggainst the first opponent with a pulse he faces?

You should go on twitter and ask that question to L. Amstrong. Not here in this forum. Here we know already. Isn't he the one who cracked lance? And not just once but twice and with such a might. Do you realized there he will be the one who goes down in history as the cyclist who finished Lance. Very few cyclists, except those who won Tours before 1999 have beaten Lance. Contador will be able to say to his kids: That guy Lance who wanted to climb among the true champions, I really put him in his place. Contador with a humble smile will be the reason why Lance can't make it up to the all time podium of those who have won more than 7 grand tours.
But Contador at 29 is just 3 wins away for that place and we have a feeling he may make it

 

[Villaba]

Exactly, how many Grand tours had Armstrong won at age 27?

 

[scribe]

Has anyone pointed out that MENTALLY is misspelled? too lazy to go back and look.

 

[Belokki]

Exactly, how many Grand tours had Armstrong won at age 27?

none! He did win the world hardest race 7 times tough, Contador has at least 4 more years of suffering, just to get even... will he be champion at 32?

 

[Belokki]

Has anyone pointed out that MENTALLY is misspelled? too lazy to go back and look.

LOL! Finally! Now I can go to bed...