Doped World Records on the shelf?

[Darryl Webster]

A fair few of you are much more knowledgeable on the subject than I so I thought I,d ask this question.

World records and breaking them are a huge draw in getting the crowds in and publicity in most sporting disciplines.
It occurs to me many have likely been set using PEDs and thus many might be out of reach by clean athletes.
I,d suggest many Weight lifting records are a pretty obvious example of this but I'm wondering what records forumites might consider this to be the case in with other sports...obviously any cycling one I,d be interested to see thoughts on but also track @ field, swimming etc.

Any suggestions , put your case and reasoning.

 

[sniper]

these are not world records, but nevertheless records, and quite astonishing ones imho: Ronaldo and Messi 2011/2012 goalscoring records.

both the players had a phenomenal season with Messi scoring 72 goals and breaking the highest number of goals scored and becoming Barcelona’s all time top scorer. Cristiano ronaldo hit 46 goals in la liga, 4 less than Messi’s but he’s the only player to hit more than 40 league goals consecutively, and also became the fastest player in la liga to score 100 goals at 92 matches.

http://sogyeltobgyel.blogspot.de/2012/05/who-had-better-season-in-2011-2012.html

 

[Sylvester]

Qu Junxia and Wang Junxia's records must be the most ridiculous of them all.

Interesting article here.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

"The law of diminishing returns"

How could i have forgotten about that in the various Bolt threads?

So thanks for ther link, Sylvester.

This law alone spits on Bolt´s one year improvement (07-08) trou "hard training".

 

[Catwhoorg]

Lots* of the women's athletics records are going to be tough to beat 'clean'

By lots, I mean almost every single one.

The 4x100M relay being a clear example recently.
A group of dope fueled East German women set the record in the mid-80's. No one came close until this Olympics. Then it was smashed by 0.5 secs

Even the Flo-Jo and Marion Jones containing teams couldn't beat that record.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

If you just look (leaving everything else aside) at these women who broke the record, then you know it´s as dirty as those of the GDR monsters.

 

[The Hitch]

By the way, when people talk about the GDR records, or the one that was broken by the US women last week anyway, did all those women from the GDR record test positive?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

No. All negative most tested women in athletics.

 

[Catwhoorg]

IIRC there was only one female East German positive test internationally, a shot putter for steroids.


It is common knoweldge since the reunification, that they were tested heavily before going abroad and got 'injuried' and withdrew if they failed those internal tests.

 

[Centurion]

Former East German athlete, Marita Koch set the World Record for the women's 400 metres in 1985. That mark stands at 47.60 seconds, and speaks for itself.

Former Czechoslovakian athlete Jarmila Kratochvílová holds the World Record for the women's 800 metres. Her time of 1:53.28 was set in 1983. This record has stood for 29 Years. The longest standing individual record in track and field athletics.

Former Bulgarian athlete, Yordanka Donkova holds the World Record in the women's 100 metre hurdles, which she set in 1988, in a time of 12.21 seconds. Another questionable performance.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Former East German athlete, Marita Koch set the World Record for the women's 400 metres in 1985. That mark stands at 47.60 seconds, and speaks for itself.
.

Koch's achievements, along with the extraordinary performances of many other East German female athletes, aroused suspicion that they were achieved with the aid of performance-enhancing drugs.[2] These drugs were and remain illegal, but were not detectable at the time. In 1991 German anti drug activists Brigitte Berendonk and Werner Franke were able to save several doctoral theses and other documents written by scientists working for the East German drug research program. The documents list the dosage and timetables for the administration of anabolic steroids to many athletes of the former GDR, one of them being Marita Koch. According to the sources Koch did use the anabolic steroid Oral-Turinabol from 1981 to 1984 with dosages ranging from 530 to 1460 mg/year. Koch never publicly admitted to this. However, a letter to the head of the state-owned pharmaceutical company was discovered by researcher Werner Frank, in which Marita Koch complained that Bärbel Wöckel received larger doses of steroids, because she had a relative working in the company.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marita_Koch

 

[Zam_Olyas]

IIRC there was only one female East German positive test internationally, a shot putter for steroids.


It is common knoweldge since the reunification, that they were tested heavily before going abroad and got 'injuried' and withdrew if they failed those internal tests.

Talking of GDR doping this womans story always comes to me mind, it was before me time but still....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11CFEROxkEk

Edit: by the way who is the commentator, i hear him alot on athletic events.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Talking of GDR doping this womans story always comes to me mind, it was before me time but still....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11CFEROxkEk

Edit: by the way who is the commentator, i hear him alot on athletic events.

I think its David Vine RIP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Vine

 

[will10]

Philippe Gilbert, Mur de Huy 2011.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Former East German athlete, Marita Koch set the World Record for the women's 400 metres in 1985. That mark stands at 47.60 seconds, and speaks for itself.

Former Czechoslovakian athlete Jarmila Kratochvílová holds the World Record for the women's 800 metres. Her time of 1:53.28 was set in 1983. This record has stood for 29 Years. The longest standing individual record in track and field athletics.

Former Bulgarian athlete, Yordanka Donkova holds the World Record in the women's 100 metre hurdles, which she set in 1988, in a time of 12.21 seconds. Another questionable performance.

All heavy dopers. Just have a look at these monsters. They look even uglier than bouncers like Jeter or Fraser, or the athletes pictured in the "Latern Jaw" thread.

Talking of GDR doping this womans story always comes to me mind, it was before me time but still....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11CFEROxkEk

Edit: by the way who is the commentator, i hear him alot on athletic events.

... and this woman even became a man. He/she was operated and is married now with a woman. There was a docu in german TV.

These GDR people really exaggerated the doping abuse. That´s why their records stood so long respectively are still standing.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

All heavy dopers. Just have a look at these monsters. They look even uglier than bouncers like Jeter or Fraser, or the athletes pictured in the "Latern Jaw" thread.



... and this woman even became a man. He/she was operated and is married now with a woman. There was a docu in german TV.

These GDR people really exaggerated the doping abuse. That´s why their records stood so long respectively are still standing.

Yea, her becoming a man part is why i remember her always.

 

[The Hitch]

IIRC there was only one female East German positive test internationally, a shot putter for steroids.


It is common knoweldge since the reunification, that they were tested heavily before going abroad and got 'injuried' and withdrew if they failed those internal tests.

So if they never tested positive why isnt "clean until proven guilty" being applied to them?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

So if they never tested positive why isnt "clean until proven guilty" being applied to them?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/738098.stm

And.

By the late 1960´s the East Germans had also entered the fray and were giving steroids to their athletes as part of a state sponsored program to bolster national pride by winning Olympic Gold Medals. In 1968, Dr. Manfred Hoeppner, East Germany's Chief Medical Officer, wrote and submitted a report to the government in which he recommended the total collective administration of steroids to the entire East German athletes (2). In the couple of decades that followed after this report, the East Germans´ presence was felt at every major world wide sporting event. From the Olympics to World Championships, they took home both medals as well as world records.

 

[The Hitch]

We know they doped just like we know 100m runners today dope. Any one of them can say - i never tested positive, i was not one of the ones being doped, and in court - the analogy used in promoting the idea that doping doesnt exist, they would all be cleared.

 

[roundabout]

I see your point, but it's kinda hillarious in hindsight to look at the medal tables from the 80's and then consider that GDR had a population, of what, 16 million at most?

Edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany_at_the_Olympics

192 medals in 1976+1988

Better than USA.

 

[Pazuzu]

Florence Griffith-Joyner's world records in the 100 and 200 meters are the gold standard (so to speak) of doped world records.

 

[roundabout]

There's some debate about that 10.49. Who knows, a small part of me thinks that IAAF may have invented the faulty wind gage so that people would have less reason to scoff at that record for obvious reasons.

But even a 10.61 record would be mighty fast. Probably only silver standard though.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

So if they never tested positive why isnt "clean until proven guilty" being applied to them?

B/C this is a copyright from former Pharmstrong fanboys and then, on a hostile takeover, adopted by the Sky fanboys.

In short: This copyright just didn´t exist back then.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Daryl and Gooner thanks.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Florence Griffith-Joyner's world records in the 100 and 200 meters are the gold standard (so to speak) of doped world records.

There's some debate about that 10.49. Who knows, a small part of me thinks that IAAF may have invented the faulty wind gage so that people would have less reason to scoff at that record for obvious reasons.

But even a 10.61 record would be mighty fast. Probably only silver standard though.

Even that 10.61 is gold standard. Lowering the record of Ashford by 0.15 (from 10.76)! That was Bolt-Like or the other way round; Bolt is FloJo like... yeah that underlines the jamaican dope better.