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Dopers are back what can we expect???

After Floyd Landis and Ivan Basso returning to cycling early in this year, more former dopers are coming back, Rasmussen and Vino are already back we may see Iban Mayo again. What can we expect now for example Tyler H. was back and than doped again will these guys behive like him???or they are clean now???
 
Jul 11, 2009
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Professional road racing A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Sorry mate, Wrong spot. And no I dont think this is a fair policy. Doping is something that is hard not to talk about when discussing racing.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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53 x 11 said:
Sorry mate, Wrong spot. And no I dont think this is a fair policy. Doping is something that is hard not to talk about when discussing racing.

It's easy not to talk about doping while discussing racing, you just say, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance,Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance,Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance...
 
53 x 11 said:
Sorry mate, Wrong spot. And no I dont think this is a fair policy. Doping is something that is hard not to talk about when discussing racing.

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

if this is not related to professional road racing I don`t know what is??? I`m not talking about EPO, blood doping....
 
Jul 14, 2009
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The UCI and all these other circus clowns could have banned them for 5 years on their first pop.It's 2 years because they are corrupt from the top down.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Cyclingnews clearly had an understandable commercial issue with the "road racing" forum being dominated by doping talk during the TdF. Advertisers don't pay good money for casual 3 week fans to have their big hero insulted and accuses next to the ads....

I hope that now those fans have disappeared until next July discussion can be more realistic and objective.
 
Jul 11, 2009
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DenisMenchov said:
A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

if this is not related to professional road racing I don`t know what is??? I`m not talking about EPO, blood doping....

Fair enough, but plenty of these threads are dragged into The Clinic.

So to help the discussion. I think that, and hope that, Vino will not change at all. Even if he cant climb stairs he will find someway to attack and that this in someways this will be great for cycling. Basso will be a good if not great GT rider in the comming years and will continue to keep a low profile. Chicken will continue to be a sick looking, evasive weirdo and more than likely will be on a grand tour podium if he can find a team. So in short I dont think that much will change but the characters comming back will make cycling a bit more intersting, even if they dont stick around for long.:rolleyes:
 
Jul 21, 2009
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History tells us that we can expect them to come back as shadows of their former selves. There won't be repeated explosive 'suicide' attacks from Vino 80 km into a 200 km alpine stage, nor track sprinting style racing at 2000 m in the high cols from Rasmussen.
They'll look very ordinary, until or unless they are tempted back into their old habits, like Di Luca.
I saw Hamilton racing a local 1st/Pro crit race in June last year, the only spectators were competitors from earlier races. He got away in a breakaway for a few laps, but that was it. It was pretty tragic to watch, considering where he was back in '04.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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If this is moved into the clinic it will turn into a pure doping discussion. "yeah, but everyone is doping etc." The difference here is that these riders are convicted dopers.

The two year ban is ridiculuous. The fans and the teams forgiving this people and letting them ride again is even more ridiculous. At this rate the sport will never be doping free.

A five year ban will make these riders hang up their bikes, and that's what they should do.
 
Jul 28, 2009
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Racing here.

Racing and doping on other forum.

If there was a nutrition and training forum then racing and nutrition posts on that forum.

If there was a racing and equipment forum then racing and equipment posts would go on that forum. Etc.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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cromagnon said:
Racing here.

Racing and doping on other forum.

If there was a nutrition and training forum then racing and nutrition posts on that forum.

If there was a racing and equipment forum then racing and equipment posts would go on that forum. Etc.

This should be the "Racing - Head in the Sand" forum.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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DenisMenchov said:
After Floyd Landis and Ivan Basso returning to cycling early in this year, more former dopers are coming back, Rasmussen and Vino are already back we may see Iban Mayo again. What can we expect now for example Tyler H. was back and than doped again will these guys behive like him???or they are clean now???

Don't get me wrong but i feel if we let guys like floyd landis, alexander vinokourov, ivan basso back into the sport it is doing more worse to the sport than good. These guys have given this great sport us fans adore a bad reputation for the cheating and then they are allowed to come back into the sport. I understand that everyone deserves a second chance but the constant denial by these riders of them not doping tells me they are never going to learn. Keep them away from our sport as we are never going to clean up cycling with those dirty riders in here.

P.S This thread will be transfered over to the clinic very soon.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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I agree with 53 x 11 - either they won't be as exciting to watch as they used to be (which is a bummer), or they won't be around for long ...
 
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DenisMenchov said:
After Floyd Landis and Ivan Basso returning to cycling early in this year, more former dopers are coming back, Rasmussen and Vino are already back we may see Iban Mayo again. What can we expect now for example Tyler H. was back and than doped again will these guys behave like him???or they are clean now???


You're essentially asking "Will they dope again?"

Answer . . . Did they dope in the first place ? How can you be so sure? Does it matter? Do I care?

Question beget questions. . .




This is more of a Dope Forum Topic
 
Mar 10, 2009
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lostintime said:
You're essentially asking "Will they dope again?"

Answer . . . Did they dope in the first place ? How can you be so sure? Does it matter? Do I care?

Question beget questions. . .




This is more of a Dope Forum Topic

Well, Floyd doped. Mayo doped. Hamilton doped. Vino doped. Basso prepared to dope but says he didn't use it. As for will they dope again?

If you don't care and think it doesn't matter then you really should re-name this section the Head in the Sand forum.
 
Aug 1, 2009
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Seriously the ban should be life if we want to ACTUALLY deter doping.
The 2 year ban has been treated as a 2 year training camp by most, recently.
And most riders are returing apart from a tiny amount of the smarter ones who retire instantly.

In my honest opinion I find it quite cringe when these guys return, its like "seriously? go away, nobody wants you here".
Even if you are one of the many 'clinic' regulars who think every single pro rider on earth is doped, you have to admit, letting these riders back who have been PROVEN guilty and never apologize or show remorse, is terrible for everyone concerned.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
Don't get me wrong but i feel if we let guys like floyd landis, alexander vinokourov, ivan basso back into the sport it is doing more worse to the sport than good. These guys have given this great sport us fans adore a bad reputation for the cheating and then they are allowed to come back into the sport. I understand that everyone deserves a second chance but the constant denial by these riders of them not doping tells me they are never going to learn. Keep them away from our sport as we are never going to clean up cycling with those dirty riders in here.

This is a bunch of crap. It is the old "bad apples" defense, where those who fail tests are thrown under the bus and everyone pretends that those who are just as guilty are clean.

Armstrong has been proved by retrospective testing to have doped. He was welcomed back by the UCI and race organizers. Kloden was using Freiburg to dope. He raced the Tour. Valverde is still racing in Spain. Frank Schleck was paying Dr. Fuentes. He raced the Tour. A good deal of the Garmin squad has implied that they and their old teams were doping. They raced the Tour. Contador's previous team had a teamwide doping program that goes back to the days of ONCE and the mid 90s. He won the Tour.

The reality is that any euro pro who raced through the part of the 90s or the early 00s and had any results worth mentioning has doped. The advantages and performance gains of the drugs used are so huge that it is unreasonable to believe that any of those riders were clean. Those riders are just as guilty of lying as any of those who were caught. Some, like Armstrong, have written whole books filled with BS to explain their miraculous increase in performance. Scapegoating the guys who got caught is ridiculous when those who are just as guilty are given a free pass.

Probably going to the Clinic...
 

laura.weislo

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Sorry guys, the reason we have a Clinic has nothing to do with advertisers and everything to do with forum members who wish to talk about racing without having every thread deteriorate into a discussion such as this - filled with speculation about who is doping.

I agree, however that a discussion of riders returning from bans and how they perform is important. But... since most bans are for doping this will stay in The Clinic.

Thanks for understanding.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Wergeland said:
If this is moved into the clinic it will turn into a pure doping discussion. "yeah, but everyone is doping etc." The difference here is that these riders are convicted dopers.

The two year ban is ridiculuous. The fans and the teams forgiving this people and letting them ride again is even more ridiculous. At this rate the sport will never be doping free.

A five year ban will make these riders hang up their bikes, and that's what they should do.

I don't think that is fair - there is only one person I know who thinks that "everyone" is doping.
The vast majority of posters accept there is still a problem - but to try and pin point a number is purely speculation.

Actually there is a new- and interesting -thread there now on the UCI & WADA - I would love to hear your imput as you sound equally as passionate about the topic as I am.
 
Jun 29, 2009
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BroDeal said:
This is a bunch of crap. It is the old "bad apples" defense, where those who fail tests are thrown under the bus and everyone pretends that those who are just as guilty are clean.

Armstrong has been proved by retrospective testing to have doped. He was welcomed back by the UCI and race organizers. Kloden was using Freiburg to dope. He raced the Tour. Valverde is still racing in Spain. Frank Schleck was paying Dr. Fuentes. He raced the Tour. A good deal of the Garmin squad has implied that they and their old teams were doping. They raced the Tour. Contador's previous team had a teamwide doping program that goes back to the days of ONCE and the mid 90s. He won the Tour.

The reality is that any euro pro who raced through the part of the 90s or the early 00s and had any results worth mentioning has doped. The advantages and performance gains of the drugs used are so huge that it is unreasonable to believe that any of those riders were clean. Those riders are just as guilty of lying as any of those who were caught. Some, like Armstrong, have written whole books filled with BS to explain their miraculous increase in performance. Scapegoating the guys who got caught is ridiculous when those who are just as guilty are given a free pass.

Probably going to the Clinic...
Couldn't have put it better myself.

In a way I almost feel sorry for Rasmussen. He took the rap while his partner in mountain sprinting crime got away scot free. I we accept that Rasmussen was doped during the '07 tour, how on earth was Contadope able to put him under pressure throughout the final mountain stages, only cracking on the final kilometre of the last climb? Anyone who thinks Contadope was clean in '07 is living in cloud cuckoo land. Just have a look at the videos and tell me that guy was doing it on a low fat diet and high cadence.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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BroDeal said:
This is a bunch of crap. It is the old "bad apples" defense, where those who fail tests are thrown under the bus and everyone pretends that those who are just as guilty are clean.

Armstrong has been proved by retrospective testing to have doped. He was welcomed back by the UCI and race organizers. Kloden was using Freiburg to dope. He raced the Tour. Valverde is still racing in Spain. Frank Schleck was paying Dr. Fuentes. He raced the Tour. A good deal of the Garmin squad has implied that they and their old teams were doping. They raced the Tour. Contador's previous team had a teamwide doping program that goes back to the days of ONCE and the mid 90s. He won the Tour.

The reality is that any euro pro who raced through the part of the 90s or the early 00s and had any results worth mentioning has doped. The advantages and performance gains of the drugs used are so huge that it is unreasonable to believe that any of those riders were clean. Those riders are just as guilty of lying as any of those who were caught. Some, like Armstrong, have written whole books filled with BS to explain their miraculous increase in performance. Scapegoating the guys who got caught is ridiculous when those who are just as guilty are given a free pass.

Probably going to the Clinic...

The fact is armstrong neveer officially tested positive at the tour (even though we know he did). We can't just let these guys back in the sport as they tarnish the image of the sport which is no good... But i acknwledge tey have the right to come back.
 
Aug 4, 2009
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it is unfortunate that doping is part of the sport - there will always be riders that take chances. I think a lot of names are associated with doping, but there has be to proof (same as convict someone of guilty). giving the longevity of a rider's career, the penalty could be increased to discourage such an offense. i believe some are genuine mistakes, while others are serial offenders that are determined to cheat the system. of course i have mixed feelings towards Rasmussen (though i can't say he's doped), Vinokourov, but I think they're both extraordinarily talented, they make the tour much more exciting, and I want to see them able to compete next year.
 

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