Doping in other sports?

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

The video also points to the effect of PEDs on skill sports, punching a hole in the "PED's wouldn't matter in skill sports" myth.

Drugs in Basketball? Nah. No drug is going to make me as tall as Shaq
/nodopinginfootballlogic.

I know your point is the opposite of skill sports=/= dope,

re: Shaq tho, its a fallacy he was always 135kg. He used to be skinny lean. mebbe not skinny lean like Kareem. Kareem Abdul Jabaar skinny type lean, Enter the Dragon Bruce Lee lean.

but eh, he was skinny. pre-roids, or during the inchoate roid phase

 

[buckle]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/34906044

I must admit Fury looks vaguely normal compared to many.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

The video also points to the effect of PEDs on skill sports, punching a hole in the "PED's wouldn't matter in skill sports" myth.

Drugs in Basketball? Nah. No drug is going to make me as tall as Shaq
/nodopinginfootballlogic.

HGH when you are a kid may do.

Look how well it worked for Messi

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought HGH can only help accelerate growth in children, not increase the maximum obtainable height for adulthood.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

The video also points to the effect of PEDs on skill sports, punching a hole in the "PED's wouldn't matter in skill sports" myth.

Drugs in Basketball? Nah. No drug is going to make me as tall as Shaq
/nodopinginfootballlogic.

HGH when you are a kid may do.

Look how well it worked for Messi

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought HGH can only help accelerate growth in children, not increase the maximum obtainable height for adulthood.

Pretty sure that's wrong fella. Excess hGH can cause acromegaly and hGH secreting tumours can result in pituitary gigantism. I'd have to assume that supplemental hGH would have a very similar effect, depending on the amount of course.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Pretty sure that's wrong fella. Excess hGH can cause acromegaly and hGH secreting tumours can result in pituitary gigantism. I'd have to assume that supplemental hGH would have a very similar effect, depending on the amount of course.

yes and no,

now my caveat: unscientific lay person here, those who suffer from the gigantism acromegaly, they usually die young (40 or under) and they get to seven-foot-six and eight foot high...

but the bones will fuse in the early 20s, then we see the athletes with their feet growing, their hands growing, their jaw and skull growing, their extremeties getting larger... the WWE wrestlers and the Mr Olympia bodybuilders might grow an inch or two, but not like the gigantism acromegaly sufferers, they just have their organs bursting out, their heads growing, and their hands growing...

i would like to see an x-ray of Novak Djokovic's skull at 18 versus now, and yes, the skull plates also wont fuse to early twenties in adults, and I am indeed invoking an earlier x-ray

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Pretty sure that's wrong fella. Excess hGH can cause acromegaly and hGH secreting tumours can result in pituitary gigantism. I'd have to assume that supplemental hGH would have a very similar effect, depending on the amount of course.

yes and no,

now my caveat: unscientific lay person here, those who suffer from the gigantism acromegaly, they usually die young (40 or under) and they get to seven-foot-six and eight foot high...

but the bones will fuse in the early 20s, then we see the athletes with their feet growing, their hands growing, their jaw and skull growing, their extremeties getting larger... the WWE wrestlers and the Mr Olympia bodybuilders might grow an inch or two, but not like the gigantism acromegaly sufferers, they just have their organs bursting out, their heads growing, and their hands growing...

i would like to see an x-ray of Novak Djokovic's skull at 18 versus now, and yes, the skull plates also wont fuse to early twenties in adults, and I am indeed invoking an earlier x-ray

That is why I included the bold part fella 😉

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Pretty sure that's wrong fella. Excess hGH can cause acromegaly and hGH secreting tumours can result in pituitary gigantism. I'd have to assume that supplemental hGH would have a very similar effect, depending on the amount of course.

yes and no,

now my caveat: unscientific lay person here, those who suffer from the gigantism acromegaly, they usually die young (40 or under) and they get to seven-foot-six and eight foot high...

but the bones will fuse in the early 20s, then we see the athletes with their feet growing, their hands growing, their jaw and skull growing, their extremeties getting larger... the WWE wrestlers and the Mr Olympia bodybuilders might grow an inch or two, but not like the gigantism acromegaly sufferers, they just have their organs bursting out, their heads growing, and their hands growing...

i would like to see an x-ray of Novak Djokovic's skull at 18 versus now, and yes, the skull plates also wont fuse to early twenties in adults, and I am indeed invoking an earlier x-ray

That is why I included the bold part fella 😉

Hitch was pretty right tho...

I think the hgh supplementation may not be exactly the same as the natural acromegaly/gigantism where one's own pitutuitary is spurting like a gusher, because they are hitting six feet tall before they are ten, if you are still 5'9" naturally at 17 and you have done the x-ray on your wrist bone which can indicate future height/further growth, all the hgh supplementation at 15 wont get you to 7 foot, it will just kill you. Your limbs and levers, the bones, have almost fulfilled their potential, they wont grow you to a seven footer.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Pretty sure that's wrong fella. Excess hGH can cause acromegaly and hGH secreting tumours can result in pituitary gigantism. I'd have to assume that supplemental hGH would have a very similar effect, depending on the amount of course.

yes and no,

now my caveat: unscientific lay person here, those who suffer from the gigantism acromegaly, they usually die young (40 or under) and they get to seven-foot-six and eight foot high...

but the bones will fuse in the early 20s, then we see the athletes with their feet growing, their hands growing, their jaw and skull growing, their extremeties getting larger... the WWE wrestlers and the Mr Olympia bodybuilders might grow an inch or two, but not like the gigantism acromegaly sufferers, they just have their organs bursting out, their heads growing, and their hands growing...

i would like to see an x-ray of Novak Djokovic's skull at 18 versus now, and yes, the skull plates also wont fuse to early twenties in adults, and I am indeed invoking an earlier x-ray

That is why I included the bold part fella 😉

Hitch was pretty right tho...

I think the hgh supplementation may not be exactly the same as the natural acromegaly/gigantism where one's own pitutuitary is spurting like a gusher, because they are hitting six feet tall before they are ten, if you are still 5'9" naturally at 17 and you have done the x-ray on your wrist bone which can indicate future height/further growth, all the hgh supplementation at 15 wont get you to 7 foot, it will just kill you. Your limbs and levers, the bones, have almost fulfilled their potential, they wont grow you to a seven footer.

Well no, that's not what Hitch said at all. No ages were given and certainly no reason for treatment. Here's the post:

"Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought HGH can only help accelerate growth in children, not increase the maximum obtainable height for adulthood."

You've gone and defined the terms of the discussion there which were not at all defined in Hitch's post which completely changes the question. In that case yes, it's unlikely to alter their height.

 

[The Hitch]

So could a 12 year old who's genes say he will be 1.65 , with hgh use end up growing to 1.85?

 

[blackcat]

Re:

So could a 12 year old who's genes say he will be 1.65 , with hgh use end up growing to 1.85?

nah, he may get a few inches, like Messi, but not 8 inches

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

So could a 12 year old who's genes say he will be 1.65 , with hgh use end up growing to 1.85?

nah, he may get a few inches, like Messi, but not 8 inches

Ah ok. So it can help people grow say 8 cm? How much and often would they have to take to reach that?

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

So could a 12 year old who's genes say he will be 1.65 , with hgh use end up growing to 1.85?

nah, he may get a few inches, like Messi, but not 8 inches

Ah ok. So it can help people grow say 8 cm? How much and often would they have to take to reach that?

hitch, i was throwing some arbitrary numbers out there, I am not qualified to solve this one for you 😛

 

[The Hitch]

Lol ok. Numbers don't have to be precise. I'm just wondering how heavy a hgh programme has to be to have an impact on height.

 

[Nick C.]

I though for adults it was more for size and strength. Ergo how in less than a generation or so in the NFL we went from a 290 lb OT being huge (Art Shell, Winston Hill) to 290 being an average, if that, center or maybe even Division I college center.

 

[blackcat]

the fridge
william the refrigerator perry chicago bears, was not he the first offensive linesman over 300lbs around turn of 1980?

 

[blackcat]

 

[The Hitch]

His heaviest ever player to score record was broken this week.

 

[djpbaltimore]

The Fridge played on defense as his main position, not the offensive line. Google Aaron Gibson for a 400 lb offensive lineman. He didn't last in the NFL for very long. I happen to remember him because I once saw him on campus when we both attended UW. He almost literally blotted out the sun, but would still ride around in a little motor scooter like all the other football players.

 

[Nick C.]

The Fridge was something on a phenomenon precisely because he was over 300 pounds. If he was 290 and played the same way, it would not have been noteworthy. Now he would be average or small for a defensive tackle.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

So could a 12 year old who's genes say he will be 1.65 , with hgh use end up growing to 1.85?

Honestly, none of us have any idea as it will be very dependent on their growth stage, but I would think it unlikely. I will search into it a bit when I'm bored at a conference next week.

 

[levione]

Re:

The Fridge was something on a phenomenon precisely because he was over 300 pounds. If he was 290 and played the same way, it would not have been noteworthy. Now he would be average or small for a defensive tackle.

No he wouldn't. He weighed 335 pounds. The average weight of NFL defensive tackles at the combine between 2009 and 2013 was 304 pounds.

Clearly there are drugs in the NFL but it is pointless making statements based on precisely no factual support to try to prove that players have got bigger. If you use actual facts then people might sit up and take notice. Fabrication allows those who wish to ignore or deny arguments to focus on those mistakes and ignore the bigger picture.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Two weeks ago I posted that USADA (who administers the UFC's PEDs programme) had announced that MMA fighter Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipović had failed an OOC. Coincidentally, Cro Cop had announced his (second) retirement from professional MMA on the day previous, and on release of the news of the failed OOC, he admitted he had been using hGH in an effort to accelerate the healing of an injured shoulder.

Yesterday, USADA announced a two-year suspension for Cro Cop, not for failing the OOC, but for "...admitt[ing] to the use, attempted use, and possession of human growth hormone (“hGH”) following an out-of-competition test conducted on November 4, 2015 in Zagreb, Croatia...."

The USADA statement makes no mention of what drug(s) were detected in the OOC, only that Cro Cop was being sanctioned for admitting to use of hGH. USADA further states they reduced the suspension from four years to two on account of Cro Cop's confession.

I don't know USADAs policy but since the suspension message also notes that Cro Cop has entered retirement (again), I do not know whether they ever will release the details of the PEDs positive. In the interest of transparency I hope they will, but won't both they and Cro Cop look the fool if they failed to detect the hGH?

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re:

Lol ok. Numbers don't have to be precise. I'm just wondering how heavy a hgh programme has to be to have an impact on height.

I think a better question to ask is "How heavy does a hgh promramme have to be to have an impact on tall peoples' athleticism."

Tall happens by itself. Most people loose athletic abilities the taller they get. Going with Shaq as an example, there would be thousands of kids as tall as him. The one who takes hgh though (or whatever) is the one who can cut, jump, and run like a shorter athlete.

The Bolt effect: drugs didn't make him bigger, drugs gave his big body the power/strength to move like a smaller one.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

Two weeks ago I posted that USADA (who administers the UFC's PEDs programme) had announced that MMA fighter Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipović had failed an OOC. Coincidentally, Cro Cop had announced his (second) retirement from professional MMA on the day previous, and on release of the news of the failed OOC, he admitted he had been using hGH in an effort to accelerate the healing of an injured shoulder.

Yesterday, USADA announced a two-year suspension for Cro Cop, not for failing the OOC, but for "...admitt[ing] to the use, attempted use, and possession of human growth hormone (“hGH”) following an out-of-competition test conducted on November 4, 2015 in Zagreb, Croatia...."

The USADA statement makes no mention of what drug(s) were detected in the OOC, only that Cro Cop was being sanctioned for admitting to use of hGH. USADA further states they reduced the suspension from four years to two on account of Cro Cop's confession.

I don't know USADAs policy but since the suspension message also notes that Cro Cop has entered retirement (again), I do not know whether they ever will release the details of the PEDs positive. In the interest of transparency I hope they will, but won't both they and Cro Cop look the fool if they failed to detect the hGH?

I'm not so sure the USADA would look foolish, as the dopers (Cro Cop, ect.) have a leg up on the testers and always will it seems. I agree that Cro Cop will look foolish, but also stupid.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

I don't know USADAs policy but since the suspension message also notes that Cro Cop has entered retirement (again), I do not know whether they ever will release the details of the PEDs positive. In the interest of transparency I hope they will, but won't both they and Cro Cop look the fool if they failed to detect the hGH?

Armstrong shoulda tried this greymail

p'raps CroCop got less of punishment for admitting more, and, they could not find the gh metabolites so they just did the deal and did not publicise the MSGC assay

and i was already told, that the MSGC does not produce an assay

to caveats and asterisks

**** ceaveat caveat caveat caveat