Doping in other sports?

[StyrbjornSterki]

In the past week, MMA fighter Jon Jones (stripped UFC lhw champ) has broken the silence he largely had maintained since the hit and run incident. He now says he was a marijuana "addict" but only has used cocaine once, the day before he was tested OOC (and tested positive for cocaine metabolites). Which, while not impossible, does seem unlikely. And nowhere does he address how he managed to kick his cannabis habit. And he further states he harbours an ill will against the NSAC for testing him for recreational drugs OOC (which contravenes the WADA standard) and then making the information public.

And not surprisingly, the press he has selected to speak to have gone nowhere near questioning his sobriety at the time of the hit-and-run (which I would conjecture was his true motivation for fleeing the scene), or the matter of his upside-down T/E ratio.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Another delay to the NSAC re-hearing of the case of MMA fighter Wanderlei "the axe murderer" Silva. A Nevada district court vacated Silva's lifetime ban and $70,000 USD fine for dodging an OOC in early 2014 on grounds of insufficient evidence and ordered NSAC to re-hear the case. The re-hearing initially was scheduled for October last, but it was delayed for a month because NSAC's lawyers were tardy providing Silva's attorneys with certain documents. Now it has been delayed again because Silva's attorneys have filed "...a consent order -- a voluntary agreement between two parties without an admission of guilt -- he negotiated with Nevada deputy attorney general...," and NSAC needs the additional time to consider the proposed order.

And while all this has been going on, Silva has filed an appeal with the Nevada state Supreme Court, challenging NSAC's jurisdiction in the matter because at the time of the dodge, Silva did not possess a license to fight in Nevada. AFAIK, there has been no move by the court on the request.

Also, Silva since has stated the reason he dodged the OOC was that he had been taking a banned diuretic medication as part of therapy for a wrist injury. Which seems to me to be sawing the limb off behind him, because the confession could well come back to bite him if the Nevada supremes rule against him, or won't take the case, and the case lands back in the lap of NSAC.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

Also, Silva since has stated the reason he dodged the OOC was that he had been taking a banned diuretic medication as part of therapy for a wrist injury. Which seems to me to be sawing the limb off behind him, because the confession could well come back to bite him if the Nevada supremes rule against him, or won't take the case, and the case lands back in the lap of NSAC.

el fricken oh fricken el

Gouty arthritis of the wrist is uncommon although gout itself is the most common inflammatory arthritis in older patients. Some known risk factors for the development of gout include trauma, alcohol use, obesity, hyperuricaemia, hypertension and diabetes mellitus. As well, certain medications have been shown to promote the development of gout. These include thiazide diuretics, low dose salicylates and cyclosporine. We present a case of gouty wrist pain possibly precipitated by a medication dosage increase as well as medication interactions.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174925/

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

In this video, mixed martial artist "The Notorious" Connor McGregor, who challenges UFC featherweight champ José Aldo for his belt at UFC 194 (12.12.2015, Las Vegas), and who rarely is at a loss for an outrageous sound bite, opines that the UFC's new drug testing program, though an improvement, still has flaws. Referring to the Brazilian police interfering with the Nevada state athletic commission's agent's attempts to administer an OOC to Aldo in Brazil in advance of their (injury-postponed) UFC 189 bout (11.07.2015, Las Vegas), the notorious one offers that testing should be administered exclusively by other than the fighter's own countrymen. The USADA stratagem, OTOH, is to use the local WADA agents in whatever country the athlete happens to be in.

I believe I have mentioned elsewhere in this forum that IMHO, when it comes to policing PEDs in its own nation, Brazil is to MMA as Spain is to road cycling. McGregor mentions that AASs are sold over the counter in Brazil, which I am given to understand is true, so McGregor's reservations are not without merit.

However, the alternative seems highly impractical, if only due to the added expense and wasted manpower of perpetually flying 3°-nation WADA testers around the world to do the testing. Because if it is flawed to use a tester from the fighter's own country, then it also is flawed to use a tester from his opponent's country. And every test necessarily involves international travel, not to mention it ass-u-me-s that all third nation individuals will be impartial.

Rough numbers, figuring the number of UFC fighters (~450), the number of their countries (~50), and the number of events (~42) and bouts per year (~900), I figure it would cost several millions of Euro (4M-5M) per year in airfare, ground travel, tester salary, hotel accommodations, and meals (roughly the same amount as what the UFC are believed to be paying to USADA to administer the program) just to test one-half of all athletes in the run-up to the fight, plus one-half again on fight day. Add another 25%-50% for the inclusion of additional random testing. And even that only comes to about 2.5 tests per athlete per year.

I would speculate the Fertittas are far too tight-fisted for this to be even remotely feasible.

And if 3°-nation testers is a bad idea for the UFC, it's an even worse one for cycling. Cyclists come from so many different countries, and the numbers of competitors might be ten-fold greater at a given race than at any UFC event. Not to mention team rosters are prone to change without notice. The only workable option would be to recruit testers only from countries with no professional cycling. So what does that leave? Burkina Faso? Myanmar? St. Helena?

[satire]
I briefly considered the Holy See as an option, as I never have heard tell of a professional cyclist from there, but I'm thinking they might be under-equipped for such a large operation purely due to a lack of manpower. A problem compounded by the fact that almost a third of its citizens are Swiss-born, and since there are many Swiss pro cyclists, that brings their impartiality into question (when was the last time anyone impugn the neutrality of the Swiss?). So scratch the Vatican from the list.

Nepal might be a good source. Think about it, Gurkhas as doping testers. Stern-faced and steely eyed little men in slouch hats, brandishing a big, curved knife at the little men in gaily-coloured spandex, and admonishing them not to dope. Wouldn't even need a hypodermic needle, just *** the rider with that damn knife and catch the blood in a cup as it runs out. It certainly would scare me straight.
[/satire]

Long story short, Connor, I'm afraid it isn't going to happen. Not in the UFC and certainly not in pro cycling.

 

[tantocomo]

Bravo StyrbjornSterki! That's a fantastic post

 

[May0maniac]

Paltrinieri surprised me at the swimming EC, he broke Grant Hackett's 1500m world record from 2001 by 2 seconds.
I always thought that Sun Yang would be the one to break the record, we'll get one hell of a freakshow in Rio.

 

[John de Savage]

This poor man accidentally ingested EPO before his first ever OOC-test. Such bad luck!

http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/12/4/9851752/gleison-tibau-deeply-sorry-reacts-to-usada-suspension

 

[May0maniac]

This poor man accidentally ingested EPO before his first ever OOC-test. Such bad luck!

http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/12/4/9851752/gleison-tibau-deeply-sorry-reacts-to-usada-suspension

Well, he trains at ATT (American Top Team), one of the dirtiest camps in MMA, just look at most of the guys that train at ATT, it's not exactly a shock when one of their fighters gets popped...

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Paltrinieri surprised me at the swimming EC, he broke Grant Hackett's 1500m world record from 2001 by 2 seconds.
I always thought that Sun Yang would be the one to break the record, we'll get one hell of a freakshow in Rio.

Rio is going to be off the charts crazy in the pool. Australia is still stinging from relatively underperforming at the last few major meets, my tip is them kicking off a nice little arms race

 

[MrTea1976]

So this was a surprise...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/35026324

 

[Cake]

Re:

So this was a surprise...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/35026324

as a cricket fan, it wouldn't surprise me if PEDs were creeping into the game. The most likely candidates are big hitting batsmen who rely on physical power, rather than bat speed. Similar to the 'roid arms race in Major League Baseball in the mid to late 90s.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

So this was a surprise...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/35026324

as a cricket fan, it wouldn't surprise me if PEDs were creeping into the game. The most likely candidates are big hitting batsmen who rely on physical power, rather than bat speed. Similar to the 'roid arms race in Major League Baseball in the mid to late 90s.

Have you seen how big and heavy modern bats are? They're ridiculous! You almost need to hit the gym just to pick them up and the sweet spot has so much weight behind it, anything out of the middle just goes screaming to the boundary.

Here's South African great Barry Richards comparing his old bat to Australian opener David Warner's

Then there's the bowlers. Glenn McGrath, Curtly Ambrose and Courtney Walsh were probably the last of the old school quicks - tall, gangly and light on their feet. Just look at the recently retired Mitchell Johnson

After a couple of years in the wilderness, he spent nearly a year working with Dennis Lillee and came back beefier than ever, by the time Johnson retired his chest and shoulders were even bigger than that photo. He went from a tearaway with promise, to the best new ball bowler in the world.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

So this was a surprise...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/35026324

as a cricket fan, it wouldn't surprise me if PEDs were creeping into the game. The most likely candidates are big hitting batsmen who rely on physical power, rather than bat speed. Similar to the 'roid arms race in Major League Baseball in the mid to late 90s.

Have you seen how big and heavy modern bats are? They're ridiculous! You almost need to hit the gym just to pick them up and the sweet spot has so much weight behind it, anything out of the middle just goes screaming to the boundary.

Here's South African great Barry Richards comparing his old bat to Australian opener David Warner's

Then there's the bowlers. Glenn McGrath, Curtly Ambrose and Courtney Walsh were probably the last of the old school quicks - tall, gangly and light on their feet. Just look at the recently retired Mitchell Johnson

After a couple of years in the wilderness, he spent nearly a year working with Dennis Lillee and came back beefier than ever, by the time Johnson retired his chest and shoulders were even bigger than that photo. He went from a tearaway with promise, to the best new ball bowler in the world.

i was trying to work out who that was, and i was thinking of the WA batsman in the 80s Graeme Wood

google imaged it, pretty prowd of my memory acuity

thought if he added ten 10kgs, and aged fast... would look similar, says he is now CEO of Perth Cricket

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

So this was a surprise...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/35026324

as a cricket fan, it wouldn't surprise me if PEDs were creeping into the game. The most likely candidates are big hitting batsmen who rely on physical power, rather than bat speed. Similar to the 'roid arms race in Major League Baseball in the mid to late 90s.

here is a rule of thumb, the lag is about 10 years on MLB.

the steroid era started before Barry Bonds and Mark Mcguire and Roger Clemens.

this aint cryptic, do the freekin sums

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

So this was a surprise...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/35026324

as a cricket fan, it wouldn't surprise me if PEDs were creeping into the game. The most likely candidates are big hitting batsmen who rely on physical power, rather than bat speed. Similar to the 'roid arms race in Major League Baseball in the mid to late 90s.

here is a rule of thumb, the lag is about 10 years on MLB.

the steroid era started before Barry Bonds and Mark Mcguire and Roger Clemens.

this aint cryptic, do the freekin sums

I think the likes of Chris Gayle, Matt Hayden, Andrew Symonds, Shahid Afridi and Lance Klusener would say it's closer to 5 years, maybe less

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

So this was a surprise...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/35026324

as a cricket fan, it wouldn't surprise me if PEDs were creeping into the game. The most likely candidates are big hitting batsmen who rely on physical power, rather than bat speed. Similar to the 'roid arms race in Major League Baseball in the mid to late 90s.

here is a rule of thumb, the lag is about 10 years on MLB.

the steroid era started before Barry Bonds and Mark Mcguire and Roger Clemens.

this aint cryptic, do the freekin sums

I think the likes of Chris Gayle, Matt Hayden, Andrew Symonds, Shahid Afridi and Lance Klusener would say it's closer to 5 years, maybe less

#BrettLEe

if you asked me ten years ago, I woulda been ignorant.

Can Andy Roberts and Thommo bowl at 100 miles an hour in 1975? natural I mean?

I reckon they can, for a spell, a few spells in a few series over 18 months when they are 23. The conditions need to be perfect, and their body humming. Can they do it for longer? no. not clean.

Well they did not do it for many years. So I dont think they had to take roids, or oral stazolol or something like it, to bowl that quick.

Brett Lee. I would bank on it that being from the NRL state, he was charging. Starc is lean, not like Ian Bishop, but you can see the peptides in his face. And everyone else in the current Australian team is on peptides.

I doubt Sir Viv was on anything, but he had a good physique, a good physique for a natural build. But nothing would surprise me now, but, he could have played as well clean, and flayed the bowling natural, and I think he was, and I am the most sceptical as anyone on this board, that everyone dopes. Well, I reckon MLB had roids entering the league around the 70s when Viv stepped out with the WIndies.

Mitch Johnson the most shiny hgh skin you have ever seen, great physique, great shoulders, and no cheeks, his intrafacial tissue rendered away, there has to be an inverse rule of thumb correlation between muscle and size and intrafacial tissue. Yes, some folks will natually carry more cheeks, less jawling, less cheekbones. But the rule of thumb is, bigger biceps bigger cheeks. All cricketers now do supps, peps. Not just the Pakistani bowlers Akhtar and the other guy in 2004.

And Clen has always existed, and been used in bodybuilding, I reckon it is a peptide or combination of peptides that keep the bodybuilders lean and the hipsters with jawlines and cheekbones of male models.

 

[armchairclimber]

Didn't know whether to put this here or in Athletics... here will do. http://running.competitor.com/2015/12/news/ultrarunning-at-a-crossroads-is-there-a-growing-doping-problem_141321#tORd3trlZYB1qEvo.01

 

[tantocomo]

Re:

Didn't know whether to put this here or in Athletics... here will do. http://running.competitor.com/2015/12/news/ultrarunning-at-a-crossroads-is-there-a-growing-doping-problem_141321#tORd3trlZYB1qEvo.01

Who'd have thought it eh? In a sport where you have to run a really really really long way, and where the amateurs can be somewhat obsessive...

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Barak Obama has declined to bail MMA fighter Nick Diaz out of his 5-year suspension from the UFC after testing positive for pot.

Someone started an online petition requesting the US President lift Diaz's NSAC-imposed 5-year ban on the grounds it was "based on their personal feelings and beliefs towards the use of medical Marijuana." And apparently 115,056 are convinced that Diaz's pot use was entirely medicinal, because that's how many signed the petition.

The White House's response, in part, was "The federal government plays no role in the disciplinary actions taken by state athletic commissions,..."


This must come as a crushing blow to Mr. Diaz, as I feel certain he was fully expecting relief to come at the hand of the leader of the "Choom gang."

 

[EarnstMorrissey]

It's not new for cricketers to dope.

"On 16 October 2006 Akhtar was suspended by the Pakistan Cricket Board, along with Mohammed Asif after they tested positive for a performance-enhancing substance nandrolone."

Although the Pakistanis do have a terrible reputation for integrity, I don't doubt there are plenty of others who do it. Another of the game's greatest sure did:

"In February 2003, a day before the start of the World Cup, Warne was sent home after a drug test during a one-day series in Australia returned a positive result for a banned diuretic"

Although I really do doubt any players were doping before the professional era. Caffeine/painkillers/amphetamines I'm sure were used here and there but real heavy duty doping didn't start until the 90s IMO.

Someone who always stuck out to me was Shane Watson, he was enormous and constantly had soft tissue injuries.

 

[Frosty]

Yasir Shah fails a drugs test. Chlortalidone, not one i had heard of before

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/35185202

 

[mrhender]

The Manning and NFL doping discussion is moved to it's own thread.

viewtopic.php?p=1850077#p1850077

 

[blackcat]

Re:

It's not new for cricketers to dope.

"On 16 October 2006 Akhtar was suspended by the Pakistan Cricket Board, along with Mohammed Asif after they tested positive for a performance-enhancing substance nandrolone."

Although the Pakistanis do have a terrible reputation for integrity, I don't doubt there are plenty of others who do it. Another of the game's greatest sure did:

"In February 2003, a day before the start of the World Cup, Warne was sent home after a drug test during a one-day series in Australia returned a positive result for a banned diuretic"

Although I really do doubt any players were doping before the professional era. Caffeine/painkillers/amphetamines I'm sure were used here and there but real heavy duty doping didn't start until the 90s IMO.

Someone who always stuck out to me was Shane Watson, he was enormous and constantly had soft tissue injuries.

actually, Watson is a confirmation bias subject.

He has those natural shoulders and wide muscular frame in his genetics.

I dont doubt that they all dope, SW included.

However, there is a misperception just because he is 6'3" and 96kg. Well, on those proportions, you could level at Thommo too, who was about 5'11" and 84kg.

I am sure they are all doping now. And it came in after Thommo and Lillee's time. And the Australians probably lead the way, not the Pakistanis, the Australians took their lead from their NRL brethren. To a lesser extent their AFL brethren. (And N.America baseball brethren.) my rule of thumb, the pro sport lag between the N American pro sports, and other pro sports, is about a decade wrt doping. So association football and soccer was heavy doping in 90s, about a decade after the compulsory doping in the N American equivalent sports.

where does my rule of thumb and evidence come from? There is no evidence, I am honest here, just an intuition.

 

[Catwhoorg]

http://www.ukad.org.uk/news/article/rally-driver-paul-bird-given-two-year-ban-for-cocaine-and-diuretics/

UK Anti-Doping (UKAD) today confirmed that rally driver, Paul Bird, has been suspended from all sport for two years following an Anti-Doping Rule Violation (ADRV).

The Cumbrian rally driver tested positive for benzoylecgonine (a metabolite of cocaine) and furosemide (a diuretic) following an in-competition test, after his win at the Nicky Grist Stages Event on 11 July 2015.

Full decision:
http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule-violations/download-decision/a/6961

The Full decision is a scan of a text document. Looks very unprofessional IMHO.

 

[vedrafjord]

This made me smile: The Onion: Peyton Manning’s 14-Foot-Tall Wife Crushes Skull Of Sports Journalist Asking About HGH

DENVER—Tearing her blouse seams as she angrily flexed her massive, rippling biceps, Ashley Manning, the 14-foot-tall wife of Denver Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning, crushed the skull of a journalist inquiring about allegations that she received shipments of human growth hormone on behalf of her husband, sources confirmed Friday. “Arrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhh!” the enormous, muscle-bound 390-pound woman bellowed upon being asked about her connection to the Indianapolis-based Guyer Institute medical center, before she then grabbed the reporter’s head with one hand, squeezed it until his skull caved in, and violently slammed his limp body into the ground. “No comment!” Sources confirmed that Peyton Manning was unavailable for questions after his wife tucked him under her arm and carried him away.