Doping in other sports?

[Brullnux]

I'm just curious how pretty big countries like Mexico, Turkey, Switzerland, Poland or Spain are hanging for the dear life with 2/3 minor medals so far... Something is really off with these Olympics.

Spain average like 15 medals every Olympics, and those medals tend to come later on. Spain only had five medals at day five of Tokyo, too.

Turkey's best ever is 13 (Tokyo), and these were in mostly Karate (dropped), taekwondo, wrestling, and boxing (no medals yet).

Switzerland's recent best also 13, 6 of which in cycling (four in mtb).

Poland have won almost as many non-Athletics medals (3) as they did in 2020 (5).

I think there is a tendency in the clinic to try to find suspicions in very very unusual places. All the countries you have mentioned are performing in line with recent history. It's really just France overperforming and USA (relatively) underperformong.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Winning that race by such a distance, when it's usually decided by such small margins, was quite a display. I honestly doubt either he or Marchand would ever be popped now, too much at stake. What I'm wondering is whether he'll take the record down even further (or suddenly fade like Qin) as this could stand for some time. The 'FloJo' record of swimming.

 

[Nick2413]

Winning that race by such a distance, when it's usually decided by such small margins, was quite a display. I honestly doubt either he or Marchand would ever be popped now, too much at stake. What I'm wondering is whether he'll take the record down even further (or suddenly fade like Qin) as this could stand for some time. The 'FloJo' record of swimming.

Half a second faster than the super suit era record that was considered unbeatable at the time and in a slow pool.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Winning that race by such a distance, when it's usually decided by such small margins, was quite a display. I honestly doubt either he or Marchand would ever be popped now, too much at stake. What I'm wondering is whether he'll take the record down even further (or suddenly fade like Qin) as this could stand for some time. The 'FloJo' record of swimming.

Depends really, as long as they don't cross the threshold to the Ben Johnson realm and become so ridiculous they have to be removed for being too blatant and breaking suspension of disbelief, which is crucial. Smashing a record like that in such a fast discipline by nearly half a second and being so much of an outlier, after barely scraping through the heats and while there is already such controversy attached to the national team must be teetering on the precipice.

In his favour is that the others were not really close to the WR, but standing against him is that that makes him even more of an outlier. However, to use the Ben Johnson example, he won by such a clear margin despite Carl Lewis - who we now know was also heavily doped - also running a time which would have broken the previous WR, and that made things far too difficult to let go.

 

[Sciatic]

Marchand is fishy too... But maybe it's just the power of the french crowd timed cheers!

Fishy is always good if you’re a swimmer

 

[Sciatic]

Depends really, as long as they don't cross the threshold to the Ben Johnson realm and become so ridiculous they have to be removed for being too blatant and breaking suspension of disbelief, which is crucial. Smashing a record like that in such a fast discipline by nearly half a second and being so much of an outlier, after barely scraping through the heats and while there is already such controversy attached to the national team must be teetering on the precipice.

In his favour is that the others were not really close to the WR, but standing against him is that that makes him even more of an outlier. However, to use the Ben Johnson example, he won by such a clear margin despite Carl Lewis - who we now know was also heavily doped - also running a time which would have broken the previous WR, and that made things far too difficult to let go.

I remember reading that some folks knew something was obviously off just watching Ben jump out the starting blocks without even watching the next 99 meters.

 

[awavey]

Spain average like 15 medals every Olympics, and those medals tend to come later on. Spain only had five medals at day five of Tokyo, too.

Turkey's best ever is 13 (Tokyo), and these were in mostly Karate (dropped), taekwondo, wrestling, and boxing (no medals yet).

Switzerland's recent best also 13, 6 of which in cycling (four in mtb).

Poland have won almost as many non-Athletics medals (3) as they did in 2020 (5).

I think there is a tendency in the clinic to try to find suspicions in very very unusual places. All the countries you have mentioned are performing in line with recent history. It's really just France overperforming and USA (relatively) underperformong.

Home Olympics always results in a flood of medals, it's more financial doping than anything else.

 

[awavey]

I remember reading that some folks knew something was obviously off just watching Ben jump out the starting blocks without even watching the next 99 meters.

I'm old enough to remember watching it live, and yes that race did feel wrong before it even started.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Surely Pan should be in the Youth Olympics. Perpetually.

 

[Eclipse]

Winning that race by such a distance, when it's usually decided by such small margins, was quite a display. I honestly doubt either he or Marchand would ever be popped now, too much at stake. What I'm wondering is whether he'll take the record down even further (or suddenly fade like Qin) as this could stand for some time. The 'FloJo' record of swimming.

Imo it will be tested very quickly. Pan, Popovic, Alexy, and even a guy like Richards are all top 20 individuals all time at 21 or under. There's something new cooking just as there is in cycling.

There might be a slowdown next year but expect big stuff before 27 and LA will then be truly apocalytpic. That's without even thinking about what the Americans bring to the table at home

 

[jono]

I remember reading that some folks knew something was obviously off just watching Ben jump out the starting blocks without even watching the next 99 meters.

Wasn't that the race where all 8 finalists were eventually confirmed opers

 

[Sciatic]

Wasn't that the race where all 8 finalists were eventually confirmed opers

Wasn't that the race where all 8 finalists were eventually confirmed opers

Don’t remember. But we can assume they all were!

 

[Rob5091]

Don’t remember. But we can assume they all were!

Only 6 of the 8 were busted afterwards .... only 6 ...
https://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/23/...n-johnson-seoul-1988-dirtiest-race/index.html

Doping was so prevalent in the sport that six of the eight finalists that lined up on that September day in Seoul would fail drugs tests themselves or implicated in their use during their careers, including Lewis and Christie. As the writer Richard Moore describes in his new book on the 100m final in Seoul, it was the “Dirtiest Race in History.”

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Home Olympics always results in a flood of medals, it's more financial doping than anything else.

That doesn't explain why broke countries like the UK and France are far outperforming their average medal count

 

[E_F_]

Home Olympics always result in a massive doping regime?

 

[ManicJack]

Home Olympics always result in a massive doping regime?

Only when they hire 2004-16 era former USA coaches

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Home Olympics always result in a massive doping regime?

Yep. Testing is done by locals, as in 2012 London by UKAD, now in Paris by AFLD

 

[ManicJack]

Yep. Testing is done by locals, as in 2012 London by UKAD, now in Paris by AFLD

Wasn't there a UKAD tester that got so excited watching a track racer win Gold that he forgot to escort the rider to controls?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That doesn't explain why broke countries like the UK and France are far outperforming their average medal count

Many of the home nation's athletes do get to train for the specific courses and venues used for the Games in advance of them, though. That might not help in events in a standardised venue or head-to-head sports like e.g. a boxing ring or a fencing piste, but could well come in useful when it comes to characteristics of pitches, pools, tracks etc..

 

[search]

Many of the home nation's athletes do get to train for the specific courses and venues used for the Games in advance of them, though. That might not help in events in a standardised venue or head-to-head sports like e.g. a boxing ring or a fencing piste, but could well come in useful when it comes to characteristics of pitches, pools, tracks etc..

hosting the Olympics usually also comes with pools of money opening up. Parts of it may very well be used for doping, of course, but it also helps if someone doesn't have to work 20 hours on the side.

 

[awavey]

That doesn't explain why broke countries like the UK and France are far outperforming their average medal count

Well France have sent the most athletes to a games in their history, it's their home Olympics, as I say its financial doping.

As for the UK well the target was top 5 nations, and 50-70 medals in total, is 20 in the first week with really only the athletics/track cycling as obvious medal chances to come on stream really that extraordinary? I'd argue we are actually behind the target set at the moment.

 

[ppanther92]

Fact is if Marchand (e.g.) did that I don't think Hawke would be saying the same thing

True, but ofc any Chinese athlete should be doubted after 23 of them testing positive without consequences (I know Pan was not among them).

But in general Paris pulled a nice "trick" with this super slow 2,15m deep pool, Almost no records - less questions asked. Think track & field will change that though.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Many of the home nation's athletes do get to train for the specific courses and venues used for the Games in advance of them, though. That might not help in events in a standardised venue or head-to-head sports like e.g. a boxing ring or a fencing piste, but could well come in useful when it comes to characteristics of pitches, pools, tracks etc..

Canoe slalom is probably the only sport where it counts, in the others I don't think it would be much of an advantage.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Well France have sent the most athletes to a games in their history, it's their home Olympics, as I say its financial doping.

As for the UK well the target was top 5 nations, and 50-70 medals in total, is 20 in the first week with really only the athletics/track cycling as obvious medal chances to come on stream really that extraordinary? I'd argue we are actually behind the target set at the moment.

In Atlanta, the british had a total of 1 gold medal, since then they have gradually increased to 10, then became a top nation, even finishing ahead of the China in Rio. Yeah, there is nothing suspicious here...

 

[Cookster15]

True, but ofc any Chinese athlete should be doubted after 23 of them testing positive without consequences (I know Pan was not among them).

But in general Paris pulled a nice "trick" with this super slow 2,15m deep pool, Almost no records - less questions asked. Think track & field will change that though.

I notice China are using the Contador excuse - tainted meat.

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/sport/china-probed-beef-imports-from-australia-after-blaming-two-athletes-failed-doping-tests-on-contaminated-meat/news-story/3e10b66c728603cf2338486403313aab

But I really doubt the slow Paris pool was selected to reduce suspicion. Anyway that just makes Pan's unbelievable world record even crazier.