Doping in other sports?

[Franklin]

It appears the Spanish are getting serious about doping with two police operations that appear to arise out of Operacion Puerto - Operacion Galgo and Operacion Jimbo.

Let's be clear.

The Italians and Spanish are the only European countries who are serious. The Brits, Germans, Dutch, Belgians they are the ones the best at swiping it all under the carpet.

The Jingoism here on this forum about the Spanish is flying flat out in the face of evidence. The only reason we know so many Spanish dopers is because they actually do something about it.

 

[Franklin]

But despite the change in training, the hour record on the track for cycling is mostly unchanged.

Sorry, but if you know cycling you know that training methods in the 1980's were horrid. Denying that besides doping training methods have improved tremendously is ***.

Besides, if only doping changed the speed, why isn't the Hour record changed? Are we all of a sudden implying now a day it's impossible to dope an d that's why the hour record stayed the same? Somehow that seems to undermine the whole existence of this forum

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Denying that besides doping training methods have improved tremendously is ***.

This sentence you typed is ***.

If you're implying I don't think the training has changed, you're being ***. I am simply reiterating the findings of the TED presenter.

The TED presenter says: the hour record improved 800 feet - ie pretty much sweet FA. It's *** to say athletes are better, faster or stronger in cycling if the hour record has not effectively changed since it was set in the 1970s, despite the training improvements.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Another woman MMA fighter, Gabi Garcia, busted for PEDs and stripped of a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu world title. She was taking a fertility drug called 'Clomiphene', which is a USADA-banned substance because it blocks the effects of estrogen, producing an effect similar to TRT in men (although to a less profound result).


Clomiphene positives in other sports, such as track and field, usually do not bring a harsh penalty in the belief it could have been being used legitimately in an effort to start a family. Fertility can be a problem for women who have been involved in strenuous athletics and maintained a lower body fat (<20%) since pre- or early puberty. So it does increase the plausibility that it could be being taken for other than reasons of athletic performance. It reportedly also is a masking agent. But USADA doesn't seem to be swayed that Garcia's use was 'legitimate.'

All she needed to do was apply for a TUE, if her desire to procreate was legit.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Isn't it unusual for a sprinter to be on the EPO?

Except this. Sprinting is anaerobic so you need more red blood cells to better utilize the oxygen you do get and to ensure sub-maximal lactate levels.

 

[Nathan12]

Except this. Sprinting is anaerobic so you need more red blood cells to better utilize the oxygen you do get and to ensure sub-maximal lactate levels.

Okay. I was just asking, my knowledge of athletics is shaky at best.

 

[HSNHSN]

Let's be clear.

The Italians and Spanish are the only European countries who are serious. The Brits, Germans, Dutch, Belgians they are the ones the best at swiping it all under the carpet.

The Jingoism here on this forum about the Spanish is flying flat out in the face of evidence. The only reason we know so many Spanish dopers is because they actually do something about it.

If they're serious about it, why are three quarters of the names in Operacion Puerto still unknown and unpunished? I have to agree on the lack of action by some other federations you mention, but wouldn't say the Spanish are really doing that much better. Also, don't forget the French!

 

[RobbieCanuck]

If they're serious about it, why are three quarters of the names in Operacion Puerto still unknown and unpunished? I have to agree on the lack of action by some other federations you mention, but wouldn't say the Spanish are really doing that much better. Also, don't forget the French!

The reason those names did not come out and many of the names are athletes in other sports is because the presiding judge refused to release them and if I recall correctly ordered the list destroyed. The judge was roundly criticized by the Spanish press. But it may have been he was afraid of defamatory speculation against the people on the list. Sort of like the average comment in the Clinic.

Edit - and the blood bags.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Let's be clear.

The Italians and Spanish are the only European countries who are serious. The Brits, Germans, Dutch, Belgians they are the ones the best at swiping it all under the carpet.

The Jingoism here on this forum about the Spanish is flying flat out in the face of evidence. The only reason we know so many Spanish dopers is because they actually do something about it.

Maybe you should look into the "Brits don't dope thread".

Team GB are considered a joke around here.

 

[roundabout]

Let's be clear.

The Italians and Spanish are the only European countries who are serious. The Brits, Germans, Dutch, Belgians they are the ones the best at swiping it all under the carpet.

The Jingoism here on this forum about the Spanish is flying flat out in the face of evidence. The only reason we know so many Spanish dopers is because they actually do something about it.

Ha.

Haha.

Hahaha.

No.

 

[sniper]

Let's be clear.

The Italians and Spanish are the only European countries who are serious. The Brits, Germans, Dutch, Belgians they are the ones the best at swiping it all under the carpet.

you're right

The Jingoism here on this forum about the Spanish is flying flat out in the face of evidence. The only reason we know so many Spanish dopers is because they actually do something about it.

not really.
spain has been a mecca for doping, no secret.
plus it was ridiculous to suddenly see spain dominate in so many major professional sports. Their domination in cycling, tennis, soccer, basketball, athletics, hell even in sports they historically sucked at (e.g. field hockey) they started dominating.
it was laughable, although fortunately the situation is slowly normalizing a bit.
but spain have set new norms. other countries have caught up. E.g. the Bundesliga is slowly catching up with the Primera division in terms of doping.
The brits have caught up in cycling.
Brazil is catching up in soccer.

 

[Benotti69]

A certain section of 'the Italians' are trying to bust doping, but i have not seen any Serie A players busted for doping...........

Neither are the Spanish looking too hard at their Liga or Tennis stars

To pick on a sport like cycling again and again for doping at this stage is like taking candy from children. I am glad they do target cycling, but not happy others get a free pass.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Cycling is the scapegoat.
Soccer was as full of amphetamines (and other doping products) as cycling, even back in the days.
http://www.handelsblatt.com/fussbal...g-vergangenheit-bei-oranje-teams/9077972.html
And they have had the same amount (ifn´t more over the course of a season) given to players.
http://www.cycling4fans.de/index.php?id=4994

Soccer and its corrupt governing gang with evil Blatter at the top, are PR masters since they come away with all their $hit.
Sky and McQaid look like little kids in comparison (corruption,- money,- and fixing-wise)...

 

[T-Nielsen]

A certain section of 'the Italians' are trying to bust doping, but i have not seen any Serie A players busted for doping...........

Neither are the Spanish looking too hard at their Liga or Tennis stars

To pick on a sport like cycling again and again for doping at this stage is like taking candy from children. I am glad they do target cycling, but not happy others get a free pass.

I hink Guardiola was.... Wonder where he is now...

 

[Benotti69]

I think Guardiola was.... Wonder where he is now...

Even then he managed to get cleared

.....While playing in Italy, he served a four-month ban for a positive drug test, although he was cleared of wrongdoing twice on appeal in 2009 before the Courts of Justice of the Italian Football Federation and the Federal Anti-Doping Courts of the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI)....

From his wiki page.

 

[blackcat]

you're right


not really.
spain has been a mecca for doping, no secret.
plus it was ridiculous to suddenly see spain dominate in so many major professional sports. Their domination in cycling, tennis, soccer, basketball, athletics, hell even in sports they historically sucked at (e.g. field hockey) they started dominating.
it was laughable, although fortunately the situation is slowly normalizing a bit.
but spain have set new norms. other countries have caught up. E.g. the Bundesliga is slowly catching up with the Primera division in terms of doping.
The brits have caught up in cycling.
Brazil is catching up in soccer.

they will be dominating ice hockey soon, even tho the entire country does not have one ice rink!

 

[blackcat]

A certain section of 'the Italians' are trying to bust doping, but i have not seen any Serie A players busted for doping...........

Neither are the Spanish looking too hard at their Liga or Tennis stars

To pick on a sport like cycling again and again for doping at this stage is like taking candy from children. I am glad they do target cycling, but not happy others get a free pass.

cycling is/are the useful idiots. they point at the cyclists, and say "look, look, there goes the bad man, do not, never, accept candy from the bad man" <pleonasm for effect>

 

[martinvickers]

they will be dominating ice hockey soon, even tho the entire country does not have one ice rink!

Odd you should mention it; Spain have just won Bronze at the Mixed Doubles, World Senior Curling Championships, eliminating the Russians on the way!

I sh!t you not.

 

[blackcat]

Odd you should mention it; Spain have just won Bronze at the Mixed Doubles, World Senior Curling Championships, eliminating the Russians on the way!

I sh!t you not.

well, curling, a sport for cleaning staff who get $5 an hour at your local shopping mall. The sweeping cleaning ladies/men need a sport too

 

[oldcrank]

Yes, my friend, Spain has a number of indoor ice-hockey
rinks, although it may be true they have no outdoor
rinks. Not sure if the curlers share the ice-hockey
rinks or have their own facilities. When I was in
Glasgow in 1971-72, half the hockey rink was
'pebbled' a couple of days per week for curling.

 

[blackcat]

Marion Jones

she had the false EPO positive the same as Bernard Lagat
it later transpired she was on epo

it was not a flase positive, it fell into that ambiguous spectrum, where it failed to meet the threshold for the bar that WADA set for proof. However, the research I have read indicates this is significantly higher when they have done the experiments and seen the bars on the assay from epo takers in the clinical setting.

 

[blackcat]

Except this. Sprinting is anaerobic so you need more red blood cells to better utilize the oxygen you do get and to ensure sub-maximal lactate levels.

the EPO use is a recovery drug in sprinting. in a 9 second 100metre race, it is all ATP dude.

 

[blackcat]

This sentence you typed is ***.

If you're implying I don't think the training has changed, you're being ***. I am simply reiterating the findings of the TED presenter.

The TED presenter says: the hour record improved 800 feet - ie pretty much sweet FA. It's *** to say athletes are better, faster or stronger in cycling if the hour record has not effectively changed since it was set in the 1970s, despite the training improvements.

diminishing marginal return. Epstein is smart, but this book/thesis is utterly banal.

I have seen sports scientists say that the 100m limit is about the ben Johnson carl lewis 9.9

 

[Dear Wiggo]

well, curling, a sport for cleaning staff who get $5 an hour at your local shopping mall. The sweeping cleaning ladies/men need a sport too

And they dope - at both Olympic level and Paralympic level.

Go figure.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

well, curling, a sport for cleaning staff who get $5 an hour at your local shopping mall. The sweeping cleaning ladies/men need a sport too

This is a hugely puerile comment. There is good money in curling. The top skips earn about $75,000 to $150,000 per year. Most skips have some profession. Jennifer Jones the Olympic Gold medal winner is a lawyer who will earn from curling this year about $150,000 to $200,000. Your arrogance is only outdone by your hubris.