Doping in other sports?

[HSNHSN]

In Fuentes case, his customers were the victims. You protect victims in a legal case. The dopers never broke the law. They only got involved because Fuentes did break the law.

Probably not quite. If Fuentes hadn't broken the law, either someone else would or the same thing would've been possible in another country where it isn't illegal. I'd guess it's very likely a good part of his customers would dope no matter whether Fuentes was available or not.


Franklin: thanks for your reply above. I thought I'd read some more articles recently about the French actually doing something, but it seems like I was mistaken. Also, I shouldn't confuse governments and governing bodies. These ,of course, aren't the same.

 

[noddy69]

different levels of intensity produced different adaptations?

in evolution(ary) measurement, the Sherpa adaptation for evolution does not even register an atom sized blip on the radar. (I know you were not involing sherpas with Tibet / Nepal reference)

and I know that Kenyan competition in athletics in marathon, is a similar historical anomaly wrt evolution.

Yes the Kenyans dominance is an anomaly in Evolution, just like Jamaica sprinting.....oh wait !

 

[blackcat]

Yes the Kenyans dominance is an anomaly in Evolution, just like Jamaica sprinting.....oh wait !

I meant, circa 1900 compare to 2010, there should be zero evolutionary effect. if it does come, it should be over centuries and millennia.

what I WAS SAYING, the evolutionary effects were already in play. this was my premise.

my premise was, in 1900, those same Kenyans Ethiopians and Jamaicans would have won medals in the Nuremberg Olympics, had they had a pathway to the competition.

might be in your best interest, to ask me to clarify in the future.

 

[blackcat]

and the evolutionary adaptations, were on population wide samples, not a niche or narrow population of professional athletes. so it would be doubtful there would be a critical mass (even on that immaterial material scale) to influence a population's evolutionary adaptation.

 

[Franklin]

Probably not quite. If Fuentes hadn't broken the law, either someone else would or the same thing would've been possible in another country where it isn't illegal. I'd guess it's very likely a good part of his customers would dope no matter whether Fuentes was available or not.

No, I'd say he's right. The customers weren't criminals considering the then standing laws.

Franklin: thanks for your reply above. I thought I'd read some more articles recently about the French actually doing something, but it seems like I was mistaken.

Admittedly I'm hardly up to snuff about French Anti-doping legislation, but considering that Jalabert and Virenque had a happy tail end of their careers+France successes at soccer make me a tad sceptical.

Pragmatically speaking: I'd say that the politician trying to hunt after it's national Soccer team is in for electoral disaster. Considering the nation usually has bigger issues I'd wager sport doping is pretty much way down the list for politicans.

Also, I shouldn't confuse governments and governing bodies. These ,of course, aren't the same.

More important it's a fragmented picture. For example the antidoping organisation of Nation X may have good ties with cycling and be laughed at by it's soccer union. Or they have to deal with spill over from Nation Y which has completely other priorities.

Ask yourself the question: Who has to gain by catching a doper? The list is small. And even more important, the Sports Unions are pretty much only losing out when it happens. Bad press, losing a hero, there's nothing in it for them. There's no reason for them to make doping their focus unless the consequences are to dire.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Zach Mettenberger one of ten "red flagged"tests at the NFL combine.


His was 'diluted'. It is not clear how many of the other 9 are diluted and how many are positive.

 

[horsinabout]

Marion Jones

she had the false EPO positive the same as Bernard Lagat
it later transpired she was on epo

Of course, for recovery. Not even controversial - like most of the clinic

Somatotype by selection is another hot topic or is that the other way around. This is the here and now, add to that the new PED’s doing the same. Take Bolt in sprinting as an example. Very tall guy would not normally be considered an advantage in the 100m. Due to extra power at the start, over coming the forces of gravity, is able to accelerate away like “how’s your father” over last few meters. Thereby eliminating his height disadvantage at the start. No greater natural talent over his peers I’ll wager.

 

[blackcat]

Of course, for recovery. Not even controversial - like most of the clinic

Somatotype by selection is another hot topic or is that the other way around. This is the here and now, add to that the new PED’s doing the same. Take Bolt in sprinting as an example. Very tall guy would not normally be considered an advantage in the 100m. Due to extra power at the start, over coming the forces of gravity, is able to accelerate away like “how’s your father” over last few meters. Thereby eliminating his height disadvantage at the start. No greater natural talent over his peers I’ll wager.

last few metres? you mean decelerate less markedly?

or do you men accelerate out of the start?

I have previously posted on this anomaly. do a user specific search by blackcat, and search "Bolt" or "accelerate" or "start".

Its a visual illusion, all the sprinters decelerate from about 3- metres on. Once they hit terminal velocity, which they do soon, they start decelerating

 

[RobbieCanuck]

last few metres? you mean decelerate less markedly?

or do you men accelerate out of the start?

I have previously posted on this anomaly. do a user specific search by blackcat, and search "Bolt" or "accelerate" or "start".

Its a visual illusion, all the sprinters decelerate from about 3- metres on. Once they hit terminal velocity, which they do soon, they start decelerating

Terminal velocity is reached in a 100 metre sprint for men at about 50-60 metres and the winner is always the person who decelerates less from that point.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

last few metres? you mean decelerate less markedly?

or do you men accelerate out of the start?

I have previously posted on this anomaly. do a user specific search by blackcat, and search "Bolt" or "accelerate" or "start".

Its a visual illusion, all the sprinters decelerate from about 3- metres on. Once they hit terminal velocity, which they do soon, they start decelerating

Top speed at 60-70m, not 3m

 

[horsinabout]

last few metres? you mean decelerate less markedly?

or do you men accelerate out of the start?

I have previously posted on this anomaly. do a user specific search by blackcat, and search "Bolt" or "accelerate" or "start".

Its a visual illusion, all the sprinters decelerate from about 3- metres on. Once they hit terminal velocity, which they do soon, they start decelerating

Yes – from the start sprinters reach peak acceleration after approx. 50-60 metres or so, I would say nearly half way and then decelerate, in Bolts case less so (add caveat) “than the others” in the field. Usually eight starters in athletics sprinting, right! Bit like the clinic twelve only four less.

My, point… Bolt being a giant would ordinarily not be able to start as well as those shorter rivals due to gravitational forces acting on him. Your point about “decelerating markedly” in 100m sprinting in the last few metres, yes "for all runners", but much less so in Bolts case. In sprinting it's all about the start and finish, with a slight cruse in the middle

Therefore, coaching selection may have taken the view, with NEW and improved PED’s on offer, iron out the start disadvantage and it’s win win all the way with Somatotype “tall”. This is an untested general knowledge observation, or alleged or I might be talking BS, or whatever you say to cover your a*se.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Vitor Belfort switches from juice to Jesus:

Vitor Belfort on TRT ban: ‘The Holy Spirit gives me everything I need’

"I feel like an animal," Belfort told MMAFighting.com. "The Holy Spirit gives me everything I need. I'm training like an animal. Nobody trains harder than me. "My hormone stays at 200 today, and the normal range is from 300 to 800. (TRT) raised my levels to a normal range according to the commission. My hormone was at the same level of my opponents', so they are in advantage now." (emphasis added)

Indeed.

 

[blackcat]

Top speed at 60-70m, not 3m

meant to say 30, not 3-. and in another post, I also had 60. I was hedging my bets, I thought it was either ~30 or ~60

 

[winkybiker]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...ace-penalties-over-doping-20140511-zr9rg.html

In no news at all, misogynistic, thuggish, boofhead, overpaid footy players are found to be drugged to the eyeballs.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The WADA observer mission to the Games said that Russian customs scanned 16,000 bags in the buildup to the Olympics and during the Games.

"Seven named nations were identified as importing 'large amounts of intravenous systems' as well as other medical equipment," said their report.

"On five occasions the Federal Security Services 'detected the use of needles and syringes in the living quarters'" of unnamed delegations, it added.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/sports/409657/7-countries-took-suspicious-equipment-to-sochi

Oh. Good.

 

[Sciocco]

Nhl

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=719447&navid=nhl:topheads

NHL's statement:

NEW YORK – Buffalo Sabres forward Zenon Konopka has been suspended for 20 games for violating the terms of the NHL/NHLPA Performance Enhancing Substances Program.

Under the terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the suspension is accompanied by mandatory referral to the NHL/NHLPA Program for Substance Abuse and Behavioral Health for evaluation and possible treatment.

The player's contract expires with the conclusion of the 2013-14 season. The term of the suspension will be served at the beginning of any new contract.

The National Hockey League will have no further comment on this matter.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=719449&navid=nhl:topheads

Player Follow-up statement:

Buffalo Sabres forward Zenon Konopka released the following statement on Thursday following the announcement that he has been suspended 20 games for violating the terms of the NHL/NHLPA Performance Enhancing Substances Program:

"I deeply regret that I have tested positive for a prohibited substance in violation of the NHL/NHLPA Performance Enhancing Substances Program. I accept full responsibility for this error. As a professional athlete I am responsible for what I put in my body, and I am to blame for this mistake.

"I want to make it clear that this violation occurred because I ingested a product that can be purchased over-the-counter and which, unknown to me, contained a substance that violated the program. Unfortunately, I did not take the necessary care to ensure that the product did not contain a prohibited substance. I want to stress, however, that I did not take this substance for the purpose of enhancing my athletic performance.

"I apologize to my teammates and to the Buffalo Sabres organization, as well as to my friends and family. I have learned a great deal from this experience, something I hope to be able to share with younger players. I will accept this suspension and continue to work hard to prepare for the 2014-15 season."

- no word on what the substance was
- he was unlikely to get much ice time in the NHL again regardless
- NHL is oblivious to doping (2 suspensions in 6 years!.. or something like that)

 

[Andynonomous]

NHL has very weak testing.

There is much denial in Canada.

Canada's recent gold medal is meaningless.

 

[Ferminal]

Chances of Perkins admitting to EPO on Australian Story tonight?

 

[fuzzydunlop3]

Chances of Perkins admitting to EPO on Australian Story tonight?

wait Kieran Perkins? Tell me more. wouldn't surprise me, but that would be such a blow to Australian swimming. I know blackcat has alluded to Aussie swimming not be the squeaky clean bunch they portray themselves as.

 

[blackcat]

wait Kieran Perkins? Tell me more. wouldn't surprise me, but that would be such a blow to Australian swimming. I know blackcat has alluded to Aussie swimming not be the squeaky clean bunch they portray themselves as.

definitely taking gear, but who is not at Olympic Final level. Talented, not exactly a Michelle Smith level, not a fraud, but definitely on gear.

Zero chance he talks about roids and epo tho

 

[Ferminal]

wait Kieran Perkins? Tell me more. wouldn't surprise me, but that would be such a blow to Australian swimming. I know blackcat has alluded to Aussie swimming not be the squeaky clean bunch they portray themselves as.

lol, it's just thinking aloud. Dominant in '94, breaking WRs from the steroid era (not that the steroid era ever ended) which lasted for years until you guessed it, broken by fellow Australians. He was pretty much cooked after that though he managed to "get it together" in '96 (aged 23) and '00 of course albeit with much poorer times. In cycling it's unthinkable that someone clean could beat the records of the peak-EPO days.

In my view you don't need to be Jan Ullrich to add it up.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Truth is stranger than fiction. Not doping, but lasers

 

[blackcat]

lol, it's just thinking aloud. Dominant in '94, breaking WRs from the steroid era (not that the steroid era ever ended) which lasted for years until you guessed it, broken by fellow Australians. He was pretty much cooked after that though he managed to "get it together" in '96 (aged 23) and '00 of course albeit with much poorer times. In cycling it's unthinkable that someone clean could beat the records of the peak-EPO days.

In my view you don't need to be Jan Ullrich to add it up.

whenever I have mentioned doping in swimming,
you get in big trouble by the succour moms (sic) and their equivalent (family members not technically soccer moms) when you mention doping in cycling. They get their neck up in indignance and play the man.

what is the greek myth of parents indulging vicariously, aka the Jim Pierce prize

http://www.poosaus.com/
POOS - Parents, Partners, Pals Of Our Swimmers

POOS was extended from "Parents Of Olympic Swimmers" to include all supporters of the Australian Swim Team, and henceforth are known as the "Parents, Pals and Partners Of Oz Swimmers." The role of POOS extended from ticketing and accommodation to include advice and assistance in all areas of competitive swimming life, from the more experienced members to the newcomers.

big lols. wonder if their role is extended like nick darcys old man who is a doctor, surely he must help in the provision of peds to his son with a mean left elbow

 

[The Hitch]

From 1997, some people had wised up already by then it seems.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1009868/index.htm

 

[slowspoke]

whenever I have mentioned doping in swimming,
you get in big trouble by the succour moms (sic) and their equivalent (family members not technically soccer moms) when you mention doping in cycling. They get their neck up in indignance and play the man.

what is the greek myth of parents indulging vicariously, aka the Jim Pierce prize

http://www.poosaus.com/
POOS - Parents, Partners, Pals Of Our Swimmers
big lols. wonder if their role is extended like nick darcys old man who is a doctor, surely he must help in the provision of peds to his son with a mean left elbow

Not that they have any previous in doping

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/summer/2007-03-30-thorpe_N.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/swimming/3002998/Swimming-Coach-charged-with-possession-of-steroids.html