Doping in Soccer/Football

[sniper]

In The Telegraph today Barcelona deny working with Del Moral. Matt Scott is a good football writer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...orked-with-Lance-Armstrong-and-US-Postal.html

yep, although short, the article has a good investigative, critical tone.

those clubs know they have to answer to nobody. absolutely nobody.
another good example of how hopeless the fight against doping in topsport is.

When asked who ran the club’s medical affairs at the time, Barcelona did not respond. Valencia did not answer calls and did not respond to two emails requesting a response to the unverified suggestion of a connection between the club and Del Moral.

bam, case closed. move along.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Le Monde interviewed Dr Fuentes at his home in Las Palmas in the Canary Islands. It based another story on two A4 sheets it obtained that were not seized in Operación Puerto. The paper underlined that the Guardia Civil did not search Dr Fuentes' Canary Islands residence - only his apartments in Madrid. And that there were some of his clients that the police did not discover.

The documents, in Dr Fuentes' handwriting, allegedly detail the preparation plans for the two clubs for the 2005-2006 seasons. The plan showed that the main objective of FC Barcelona was the Champions League in May, which it won, as well as having the players peak for the World Cup.

The training programs include circles and 'IG' symbols that correspond to preparation or rest periods. These are the same symbols used by Dr Fuentes in his plans for the Liberty Seguros riders, according to Le Monde. The Spanish Guardia Civil believe that these symbols correspond to anabolic steroids (circle) and Insulin Growth Factor - IGF-1 (IG).

Other symbols are used in the team plans, including a rounded 'e', and a circle with a dot in it. These are supposed to correspond to blood transfusions and the administration of EPO. Some individual players had tailored programs, in case they were injured or tired.

Eufemiano Fuentes did not have a formal relationship with either FC Barcelona or Real Madrid. His plans were allegedly sent via the team doctor or one of the players. Ex-pro Jesus Manzano, who first alerted police to the dealings of Fuentes, said that he saw a Real Madrid player while visiting the doctor. Nevertheless, FC Barcelona did try to hire Dr Fuentes in both 1996 and 2002, but both times he refused.

Sounds awfully similar to what is described in the "Dr. Michele Ferrari’s involvement in doping446" section of USADA's reasoned decision.

Multiple handwritten training plans for Kevin Livingston were found in Dr. Ferrari’s
files during a search of his residence in the first investigation of Dr. Ferrari. The cyclists who
have worked with Dr. Ferrari describe handwritten training plans prepared by Dr. Ferrari, and
have testified that he placed notations on their plans to indicate the dates on which they were
supposed to use performance enhancing drugs.515 Multiple asterisks are an evident feature on all
of the training plans in the file for Kevin Livingston.516

Ferrari provided Vande Velde training plans that set forth his workouts and the amount of EPO to be
used was indicated on the plan.523 The symbol Ferrari used on the plan was a period to indicate
500 international units of EPO.524 A period with a circle around it indicated 1000 international
units of EPO.

Ferrari wrote training plans for Leipheimer which incorporated EPO and
Andriol, which was to be mixed in olive oil and administered sublingually.543 On the training
plans Ferrari used a code for EPO with a dot representing 500 international units of EPO and a
dot with a circle around it standing for 1000 international units of EPO.544

 

[The Hitch]

Posted by someone somewhere else on here, but i had to wash my eyes for 5 minutes when i saw that this was written by Joe Barton, who does have a bit of reputation as a total thug.

http://www.joeybarton.com/armstrong-the-fall-of-an-iconic-sporting-superstar/

Surprisingly well written and most importantly, he admits to only ever having been tested for urine, and that he was surprised to read cyclists were getting their blood taken and stored.

Also says some England players told him they took vitamins after which they could "run all day".

Massive chapeau to Barton here.

 

[Poursuivant]

Barton is a tit, remember his tweets when Speed died? I have no interest in the soft gets views.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Barton is a tit, remember his tweets when Speed died? I have no interest in the soft gets views.

What did they say?

Regardless I think Barton is a jerk.

 

[The Hitch]

But on the other hand the scumbag was still saying no matter what Armstrong did, he is still a legend. He comes across with his light and shining armour and pretends he is all concerned about possible doping in football but still in the end praises Armstrong as some sort of an inspiration. Just look at the last paragraph and his tweet from a few days ago where he got a lot of criticism for:

Its different from a footballer than from a cyclist who should know better. All joe barton will know about armstrong is that he is a cyclist who won the Tour many times and gave millions to cancer. We know livestrong aint all that but the rest of the world really thinks he has saved lives, and i can understand why someone if they think a hero has saved lives would still consider tha tperson a hero.

 

[sniper]

Will soccer/football remain untouchable?

Sunday evening, NOS (Dutch television):
the most naive discussion ever on doping in football.
made my blood boil.
Host with three guests, conversation roughly like this:

"The revelations around armstrong force us to reflect on football". Duh...

Q: "do you guys think there is doping in football?"
A: "mm...[ignorant faces all over the place]. Well, we know the case of Adrian Mutu of course. So it would be naive to think there isn't.
However, even if you dope, it simply doesn't help you become a better player". [my temperature rises]. "If you look at players like Messi, Xavi, that's all skill. They don't need drugs." [my blood starts boiling]

then an NOS journo based in Spain chimes in and is asked about the ties between Fuentes/Del Moral and Barca.

Q: "so what about the alleged ties between Fuentes/Del Moral and Barca?"
A: "well, Barca has told us that they never hired Del Moral or Fuentes. Of course, there were talks and rumors, and yes, they did try to look for medical innovations simply to improve their game. But the two doctors never actually worked for Barca." [my bodytemp rises again]
"And when the french newspaper LeMonde published rumors about contacts with Fuentes, Barca won a court case against the newspaper, which then had to pay more than 15000 euro's damage reimbursement. So those rumors were clearly without any base". [blood boiling again]
"Of course, Frank de Boer once tested positive for nandrolon, but that turned out to be caused by a contaminated supplement" [mama mia]

End of discussion.
Goodness me. The degree of naivity when it comes to football is stunning, baffling, yes, mind-blowing. And VERY annoying.

The sad thing: It didn't look as if they were unwilling to join dots. It seemed more as if they were simply unable to join dots.

Is football really gonna come out of this scott free?
Does the crazy amount of dough involved in soccer automatically imply that soccer is untouchable?

Enough people who don't wanna see it, willingly turning a blind eye, and a second group of fans/commentators who are simply unable to join dots.

Enough people who simply don't wanna hear about it, let alone speak about it? I'm afraid so.

EdIT: Jan Mulder, a brilliant guy, and ex-football player, was also on the program and was the only one who did make some very sensical comments, but he was hardly heard.

 

[Poursuivant]

What did they say?

Regardless I think Barton is a jerk.

He basically said he was selfish.

 

[Cyivel]

Brothers Keys and Gray talked about doping in football on TALKsport the other day, they mentioned Barcelona and the links with those doctors, I don't know exactly what was said as I only heard them saying they were talking about it later in the show (which was when they mentioned Barca) as I had to go out.

Anybody know whether they said it was an issue or just dismissed it?

 

[Spencer the Half Wit]

Brothers Keys and Gray talked about doping in football on TALKsport the other day, they mentioned Barcelona and the links with those doctors, I don't know exactly what was said as I only heard them saying they were talking about it later in the show (which was when they mentioned Barca) as I had to go out.

Anybody know whether they said it was an issue or just dismissed it?

I'm not sure if it was the same show but I heard them interview Tony Cascarino, who's autobiography was written by Kimmage. Cascarino was inferring that there was a level of doping going on in Marseilles where he played in the early nineties. I think he said he was given some "boosters", which he now believes to be PEDs and he is sure that other players were using more stuff. He seemed very well informed about doping, which I assume he got from Kimmage.

They did touch on the dodgy doctors and Barca and noted that Barca have said that they did not employ the doctors, which is different from saying that they never used them.

Finally Keys recalled a time covering a cycling race in Dublin (which I gather was the 97 prologue) where he was told by "a leading British cyclist who is still prominent in the sport" the 1-2-3 of the prologue before it happened. He claims he went to see his producer who told him not to tell Phil (Liggett), as it would break his heart. I assume the rider in question is either Yates or Boardman, probably the former. Andy Gray was almost speechless by this time but the story didn't seem to shock Cascarino.

This was broadcast I think on Monday. I haven't seen it referred to anywhere else and I can't find any podcast. Did anyone else hear it?

 

[The Hitch]

I'm not sure if it was the same show but I heard them interview Tony Cascarino, who's autobiography was written by Kimmage. Cascarino was inferring that there was a level of doping going on in Marseilles where he played in the early nineties. I think he said he was given some "boosters", which he now believes to be PEDs and he is sure that other players were using more stuff. He seemed very well informed about doping, which I assume he got from Kimmage.

They did touch on the dodgy doctors and Barca and noted that Barca have said that they did not employ the doctors, which is different from saying that they never used them.

Finally Keys recalled a time covering a cycling race in Dublin (which I gather was the 97 prologue) where he was told by "a leading British cyclist who is still prominent in the sport" the 1-2-3 of the prologue before it happened. He claims he went to see his producer who told him not to tell Phil (Liggett), as it would break his heart. I assume the rider in question is either Yates or Boardman, probably the former. Andy Gray was almost speechless by this time but the story didn't seem to shock Cascarino.

This was broadcast I think on Monday. I haven't seen it referred to anywhere else and I can't find any podcast. Did anyone else hear it?

Thanks for that mate.

 

[Cyivel]

Yeah cheers for that spencer, interesting stuff, I heard them say Cascarino was going to be on the show, didn't realise he would be talking about doping as well though.

 

[Alphabet]

Here's something from Big Sam:

London: West Ham manager Sam Allardyce talked on Friday about the importance of supplements to the modern footballer.

Allardyce said: “It is only about eight years ago that everyone spoke about how pasta was an important food for footballers.

“Things have moved on rapidly since. Pasta remains important but it is only a fuel. It’s got no nutritional value in it — it just helps you run around.

“A lot of players take supplements and, if you look at the small margins you need to get better, it’s important to do so.”

The Hammers boss said caffeine, which was on the banned list a few years ago, is now used widely. He said: “At West Ham, we have caffeine in many shapes and sizes. Standard coffee, short shots and tablets. But it is all based on a spiking scenario.

“Caffeine makes you feel good before you play.You don’t use it every day, otherwise you nullify the effect of it.

“Clubs might say they don’t use it before games but I know most do.

“We have supplements to take for different periods of the year. In winter, there’s a vitamin D deficiency because of the lack of natural sunlight, so supplements are available for that. Also, you don’t get the same nutrition out of fruit and veg as we used to.

“Players run their body to a very high level so the improvement and recuperation of resources have to be on a daily basis.

“Supplements are a necessity in terms of having a well-balanced diet.”

Link

You could swap caffeine for any PED there and it would hold true...

 

[luckyboy]

Not sure how new this is, but this guy quoting Pereiro

Oscar Pereiro: "Barcelona offered a blank check to Eufemiano Fuentes .. for what, to give creams and aspirin?" with a pair ...

https://twitter.com/PedroBDonoso/status/260536884688744448

 

[ProfTournesol]

I'd say this applies to almost all top clubs in Europe to be honest....I usually shy away from casting aspersions about people's physical transformations...but just take a quick google for Cristiano Ronaldo shirtless to see the wonderful benefits that HGH could bring you....

so natural....just protein shakes and banana smoothies

.... and a full length mirror
Don't forget that of the 100 athletes receiving gynaecological treatment from Dr Fuentes, only 25 or so were cyclists, the rest were purportedly athletes and footballers.

 

[Alphabet]

Didn't Pereiro also say Zidane received a transfusion, presumably from Eufe?

 

[hrotha]

Not sure how new this is, but this guy quoting Pereiro

Oscar Pereiro: "Barcelona offered a blank check to Eufemiano Fuentes .. for what, to give creams and aspirin?" with a pair ...

https://twitter.com/PedroBDonoso/status/260536884688744448

Yeah, Barça tried to hire Fuentes during Núñez's presidency (before 2000). It's been known for years now, but I don't think anyone did any serious digging and so I think officially it remains a rumour.

 

[cocteau_ireland]

At least when my team gets a spanking by barca tonight in the champions league, I can take solace that they've simply 'prepared' better. When messi makes his umpteenth run into the celtic box without the ball, will have to remind myself that its skill & preparation that have got him this far.

 

[Caruut]

Barton is a tit, remember his tweets when Speed died? I have no interest in the soft gets views.

To me what those tweets showed was that he says his mind, even when that's not particularly popular. I kind of agree that there is something selfish about what Speed did, especially when you're leaving two kids behind, but it's certainly not popular to say. On the Armstrong thing Hitch hits the nail on the head - stuff will come out about the lies, the bullying and the fact that Livestrong is not really a cancer charity soon, but at the moment it is only those who take the time to educate themselves who know this stuff. It just doesn't get widely reported. Barton is clearly a man with something of a violent temper, but I don't see how that makes his opinions when he's not seeing red any less valid.

 

[ProfTournesol]

At least when my team gets a spanking by barca tonight in the champions league, I can take solace that they've simply 'prepared' better. When messi makes his umpteenth run into the celtic box without the ball, will have to remind myself that its skill & preparation that have got him this far.

Commiserations in advance

 

[sniper]

Yeah, Barça tried to hire Fuentes during Núñez's presidency (before 2000). It's been known for years now, but I don't think anyone did any serious digging and so I think officially it remains a rumour.

indeed, officially a rumor. and officially they never actually hired him.
A dutch journalist did some harmless 'digging' recently aksing Barca about their ties to Fuentes and Del Moral, and got as an answer that neither Fuentes nor Del Moral have been under any sort of contract at Barca. The journalist (indeed a Barca fan) was fool enough to present this as evidence that there has never been any contact between those dodgy docs and players of Barca.

 

[Franklin]

indeed, officially a rumor. and officially they never actually hired him.
A dutch journalist did some harmless 'digging' recently aksing Barca about their ties to Fuentes and Del Moral, and got as an answer that neither Fuentes nor Del Moral have been under any sort of contract at Barca. The journalist (indeed a Barca fan) was fool enough to present this as evidence that there has never been any contact between those dodgy docs and players of Barca.

Well, the Dutch aren't that hot on digging Read (and weep) the article from Harm Kuipers where he solidly picks the side of LA.

Or the absolute silence on our favorite sport, speedskating, which obviously is very clean considering we only popped one (unpopular, east German) rider

 

[Caruut]

indeed, officially a rumor. and officially they never actually hired him.
A dutch journalist did some harmless 'digging' recently aksing Barca about their ties to Fuentes and Del Moral, and got as an answer that neither Fuentes nor Del Moral have been under any sort of contract at Barca. The journalist (indeed a Barca fan) was fool enough to present this as evidence that there has never been any contact between those dodgy docs and players of Barca.

Fundamentally misunderstanding (or worse understanding and staying silent about) the way Fuentes in particular operated.

 

[Spencer the Half Wit]

Fundamentally misunderstanding (or worse understanding and staying silent about) the way Fuentes in particular operated.

If idiots like Richard Keys and Andy Gray have picked up on the nuance of Barca's reply I'm disappointed (but not surprised) that there hasn't been more made of the alleged link. Most of my mates who are football fans are wilfully blind to the possibility that footballers take as many or more PEDs than cyclists.

The fact that watching Barca is one of the most beautiful things in sport (much like watching Pantani climbing an Alp) shouldn't blind you to asking obvious questions about their performance.

 

[sniper]

If idiots like Richard Keys and Andy Gray have picked up on the nuance of Barca's reply I'm disappointed (but not surprised) that there hasn't been more made of the alleged link. Most of my mates who are football fans are wilfully blind to the possibility that footballers take as many or more PEDs than cyclists.

The fact that watching Barca is one of the most beautiful things in sport (much like watching Pantani climbing an Alp) shouldn't blind you to asking obvious questions about their performance.

it used to be beautiful. it's boring now.
for what it's worth, knowing the degree of doping at barca has caused me to cease being a barca fan. more generally, knowing the apologetic attitude towards doping in spain has caused me to cease being a fan of any spanish sports athlete. I'm sure this is not just me having these sentiments.
spain is ruining its reputation.
obviously, spain aint the only country on PEDs, but they're so flagrantly endulging and apologizing it, that they are at risk of being scapegoated by the international sports community.