Doping in Soccer/Football

[sworks]

NSAID medicin and heart attack, or maybe you should say cardiac arrest in english. Is that mentioned before? I think many football players use them to reduce pain....

 

[Bavarianrider]

http://performa.es/English/equipo.html


https://twitter.com/DavidWalshST/status/249981462156296192

Thanks!

 

[sniper]

I remember watching a documentary about doping in Italian football. It was mainly about Juventus but it said that Hernan Crespo's haematocrit was in the high 50s and he played at Parma also. Deschamps also had one in the high 50s when at Juve. Remember Alex Ferguson back at 1999 CL semi-final against Juve and he said he could'nt believe the size of the Juventus player's legs.

What wrecks my head is how football fans hold up the likes of Davids, Stam and especially Guardiola as these massive heroes and turn a blind eye to their positives. Yet when it happens to Contador and others they have no problem sticking the boot in.

BTW Almeyda was a great midfielder in his day.

Was Del Moral linked with Barca and Valencia if I'm not mistaken?

yep, the dutchies are well represented in the football doping hall of fame. you still forgot to mention Frank de Boer who is now Ajax coach.

one question i've been wondering about is to what extent football players dope knowingly. Hitherto, I've assumed most football players have no idea what program they're actually on, though of course it is plausible to assume that a certain percentage also takes steroids/HGH on their own.
But I can't imagine the average football player sitting at home doing his own bloodtransfusions as we've seen it in cycling.

p.s. Del Moral (iirc) was wanted by Barca (but never actually worked for them, I could be wrong though), while the link with FC Valencia is purely geographical and not contractual either (again, I could be wrong).

 

[Zam_Olyas]

The old man don't want to watch football with me now because i keep telling him about doping and unbelievable performances.

 

[neineinei]

According to es.wikipedia Eufemiano Fuentes was listed as a member of the coaching staff and head of medical services for the segunda división B football team Universidad de Las Palmas de Gran Canaria Club de Fútbol for 2012.

http://www.rtve.es/deportes/20110307/eufemiano-fuentes-ficha-universidad-palmas/414629.shtml

The team went broke and folded before the 2012-season, but that a University football club would hire him is appalling.

 

[sniper]

According to es.wikipedia Eufemiano Fuentes was listed as a member of the coaching staff and head of medical services for the segunda división B football team Universidad de Las Palmas de Gran Canaria Club de Fútbol for 2012.

http://www.rtve.es/deportes/20110307/eufemiano-fuentes-ficha-universidad-palmas/414629.shtml

The team went broke and folded before the 2012-season, but that a University football club would hire him is appalling.

appalling it is. (to be sure, it's been discussed at some point, though quite a while back)

in the "only in spain"-thread i drew attention to the fact that having a doping-offence on your CV seems to be a plus in Spain.
(cf. the case of Nicolas Terrados, implicated by Zülle as one of ONCE's doping administrators back in the late 90s, who afterwards was offered an honorary professorship by the Spanish Olympic committee and got a prominent position at some governmental Asturian Medical Centre.)

 

[RownhamHill]

one question i've been wondering about is to what extent football players dope knowingly. Hitherto, I've assumed most football players have no idea what program they're actually on, though of course it is plausible to assume that a certain percentage also takes steroids/HGH on their own. But I can't imagine the average football player sitting at home doing his own bloodtransfusions as we've seen it in cycling.

My understanding is they're normally unknowingly taking their wives' diet pills.

 

[pelodee]

My understanding is they're normally unknowingly taking their wives' diet pills.

For some reason this always makes me laugh
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jun/09/kolo-toure-medical-condition-fat

 

[sniper]

My understanding is they're normally unknowingly taking their wives' diet pills.

For some reason this always makes me laugh
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jun/09/kolo-toure-medical-condition-fat

of course it's a matter of degree: to what extent is the average football player aware of the program he is on?
I mean, if they get epo injected by their teamdoc, i doubt most of them know that they're being served PEDs. And perhaps the same with HGH.
In cycling, i assume the awareness among racers is much bigger than in football.

 

[pelodee]

of course it's a matter of degree: to what extent is the average football player aware of the program he is on?
I mean, if they get epo injected by their teamdoc, i doubt most of them know that they're being served PEDs. And perhaps the same with HGH.
In cycling, i assume the awareness among racers is much bigger than in football.

This was mentioned earlier:

Matias Almeyda claims in his biography that he got IV transfusions before matches in Parma. Supposedly it was vitamins, but it made him "able to jump up to the ceiling".

http://it.ibtimes.com/articles/36384/20120926/almeyda-doping-biografia-parma-inter.htm (Italian)

Here's an English article about the same:

"At Parma we were given an IV drip before games," Almeyda said, in extracts printed by the Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport. "They said it was a mixture of vitamins but before entering the field I was able to jump up as high as the ceiling.

"Players do not ask questions but then in the following years there are cases of former players dying from heart problems, suffering from muscular issues and more. I think it is the consequence of the things that have been given to them."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/sep/26/matias-almeyda-doping-fixing-italy

It's confirming what Daniel Bravo claimed in ~1998

"We were systematically given vitamin injections before games," Bravo said. "I didn't approve but if you protested, you went against club rules. The problem with injections is that the doctor involved can put whatever he likes into them."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...taly-sinking-deeper-into-scandal-1178042.html

...and Arsene Wenger from 2004:

"We have had some players come to us at Arsenal from other clubs abroad and their red blood cell count has been abnormally high," said Wenger.

..."That kind of thing makes you wonder."

..."There are clubs who dope their players without the players knowing.

"The club might say that they were being injected with vitamins and the player would not necessarily know that it was something different."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/3725668.stm

 

[sniper]

This was mentioned earlier:



Here's an English article about the same:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/sep/26/matias-almeyda-doping-fixing-italy

It's confirming what Daniel Bravo claimed in ~1998

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...taly-sinking-deeper-into-scandal-1178042.html

...and Arsene Wenger from 2004:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/3725668.stm

Outstanding post! Quite a clear picture emerging from those quotes.

I wonder what Almeyda had been given that made him bounce. EPO would not have that immediate effect, right?

 

[pelodee]

Zdenek Zeman's opinion on Matias Almeyda's book:

"Years ago I said there was doping in football," said Zeman. "I have not read Almeyda's autobiography, but I'm not surprised. Now players are saying what I said. If they had done so before the problem would have been eliminated long ago."

from Football Italia

In a link to cycling Zeman's statements are mentioned in this very good piece by Sandro Donati:

The head of research at the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI), Sandro Donati (photo), recounts his personal story about twenty years of fighting against doping in Italian and international sport. An unbelievable story which nevertheless is true.

Anti-doping the Fraud Behind the Stage - Play the Game

Almost forgot Roma (Zeman's team) are playing Juventus on Saturday

 

[hrotha]

According to es.wikipedia Eufemiano Fuentes was listed as a member of the coaching staff and head of medical services for the segunda división B football team Universidad de Las Palmas de Gran Canaria Club de Fútbol for 2012.

http://www.rtve.es/deportes/20110307/eufemiano-fuentes-ficha-universidad-palmas/414629.shtml

The team went broke and folded before the 2012-season, but that a University football club would hire him is appalling.

The team was named after the university because it was founded by students, but as far as I know it was never a university team.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Luis del Moral in 1999: "you guys take nothing in comparison to footballers" to us postal guys.

 

[sniper]

The Wenger comments were discussed earlier in the thread. I often wondered what players he was referring to when he said that. I don't like speculating but if I was guessing I would say Henry would spring to mind since he played at Juve when it was widespread at the club. Kanu and Vieira were also at Inter and Milan before they joined Arsenal and it was at a time when doping was supposedly rife in the Italian game.

Zeman straight out accused Del Piero and Vialli of PED use. The strange thing about the Vialli one is that he was'nt even at Juve back then when he got accused, as he was playing well at Chelsea at the time.

Kanu later was struck by heart problems, though he did return to playing at the highest level (somewhere in England, don't recall).

@Zam Olyas: That Del Moral quote, is it from Tyler's book?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Kanu later was struck by heart problems, though he did return to playing at the highest level (somewhere in England, don't recall).

@Zam Olyas: That Del Moral quote, is it from Tyler's book?

Yes.

ten characters.

 

[Arnout]

There's also the story of Ronaldo (the real, Brazilian, one) who supposedly got anabolics during his time with PSV. According to Enzo Palladini this caused the knee problems of Ronaldo later in his career, as the doping messed up his body. There've always been rumors of this kind, even before the accusation by Palladini. He also said that PSV used vitamin supplements to give him the stuff.

PSV and Ronaldo deny by the way, so it's no problem.

 

[Caruut]

p.s. Del Moral (iirc) was wanted by Barca (but never actually worked for them, I could be wrong though), while the link with FC Valencia is purely geographical and not contractual either (again, I could be wrong).

I thought Barcelona had tried to hire Fuentes (after all, why wouldn't a football club made up solely of men need an on-site gynecologist?). Had not heard they were linked with Del Moral before though.

 

[Caruut]

Kanu later was struck by heart problems, though he did return to playing at the highest level (somewhere in England, don't recall).

"Highest level" is pushing it, but he came back and milled around at Portsmouth for a while while they were making stupid signings.

 

[Caruut]

Hard to say. There are tens of thousands of professional football players in all of Europe. Four or five cardiac events is not really that many relative to the number of players and relative to the number of hours played. Some may be doping related, but with so little data it is hard to know.

I did some back-of-envelope calculations somewhere up the thread after the Muamba incident. The rate was roughly 4x the average rate in the population, based on 3 incidents in 5 years among the top 5 European leagues (I think). Sample size is too low for it to be properly meaningful though.

A player in division 2 doping? Is that what you mean? You must be kidding. Div. 2 in Sweden is far from professional football.

<http://norran.se/2012/09/arkivet/pitespelare-avled-efter-kollaps/>

We know of cases where Cat. 3 racers have used EPO to get into Cat. 2. That's roughly the same situation.

 

[benny_profane]

I thought Barcelona had tried to hire Fuentes (after all, why wouldn't a football club made up solely of men need an on-site gynecologist?). Had not heard they were linked with Del Moral before though.

The website of the sports consultancy firm del Moral works (worked?) for lists him as having been medical advisor at Barca and Valencia http://performa.es/English/equipo.html

 

[sniper]

"Highest level" is pushing it, but he came back and milled around at Portsmouth for a while while they were making stupid signings.

true...

i used to be a big fan of kanu when he played for ajax.
magic feet. supposedly he was 18 when he came to ajax, but there were rumors that in fact he was older.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The Wenger comments were discussed earlier in the thread. I often wondered what players he was referring to when he said that. I don't like speculating but if I was guessing I would say Henry would spring to mind since he played at Juve when it was widespread at the club. Kanu and Vieira were also at Inter and Milan before they joined Arsenal and it was at a time when doping was supposedly rife in the Italian game.

All possibilities. I'd also think of maybe Lauren, as he came from Mallorca at that time, and Reyes, as possibilities, but we could be barking up completely the wrong tree and find out there was a systematic program at Lille or ASEC Mimosas.

 

[Ozzie2]

One of my best friends is an American
I was over his place and we were playing Full Tilt, and his handle was "Saucebag"

I asked him why he chose that, he said boy, if you knew what sh*t they pumped into my while I was playing (US football) at College.
His was a mid level top team

I have another friend who played for Notre Dame (both early to mid 30's now), he says he was just given a life we couldn't imagine- cars, cash filled envelopes, any extra tuition and so on, but says aside from every supplement and nutritionist and physio and best practice stuff, stayed clean and didn't see any either

Considering the lies in our industries and the context of the things we do say, and that i know not or care not for his country or game, he would have zero reason to not be frank, as the other friend is

So in that instance, some did, and some didn't

 

[Caruut]

true...

i used to be a big fan of kanu when he played for ajax.
magic feet. supposedly he was 18 when he came to ajax, but there were rumors that in fact he was older.

"King Kanu, Kanu
He's older than me and you
His real age is sixty-two
King Kanu, Kanu"

As the chant goes.