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Doping in Soccer/Football

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Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
The way Bayern and Barcelona are the last few years there must be going on some new development there surely?
Last few years? Barca since at least a decade ago. Recent years (2011-2013 or so) definitely Borrusia for me.

Klopp's "genius" tactic, if you look closer basically just involved all his forward players sprinting after the ball in unison for the entire 90 minutes.
 
Re: Re:

gooner said:
The Hitch said:
What do you think of Alexis Sanchez gooner? Was at a doping factory in Barcelona, now moves to "clean" arsenal but is physically making a mockery of the premier league.
Maybe it's because he's practically the main man at Arsenal and not just another player at Barca supplementing Messi. The same can be said for Henry coming from a doping club at Juve. Not everything can be solely judged from a doping perspective. Plenty of other players have gone the other way like Overmars, Petit, Hleb and they were shadows of their former selves. Were they supposed to be on the juice at Arsenal and off it at Barca? There's more to judging players varying performances at a club than just simply seeing it on doping alone. There's differing reasons for those three players just mentioned.

That being said, I was speaking in terms of Wenger's position. I'm not stupid enough to suggest every player during the Wenger era was 100% clean. That's the case no matter how vehemently anti-doping Wenger would be.
Wenger vehemently anti-doping? Mr "I-Didn't-See-It" when his players are at their dirtiest?? Yet can still see exactly how an opponent has dived or cheated from the furthest point across the pitch??
He now claims "he didn't inject them"... he may not have done it himself, but I bet he knew full well what was going on. Football's French version of JV, anyone?
nothing to see here, jog on... :rolleyes:
 
Sep 8, 2015
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It goes back a long way in football, a lot longer than 10 or 15 years.

Look at Toni Schumacher's comments in his autobiography "dope is a tradition in the Bundeslige" he said. As a result, the (at the time) best goalkeeper in the world was sacked from his club and national sides, while in his prime at 32. Why? He broke the omerta.

Google "Ferenc Puskas" & "1954 world cup final" for something one of the greatest players ever had to say about it
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Re: Re:

Archibald said:
gooner said:
The Hitch said:
What do you think of Alexis Sanchez gooner? Was at a doping factory in Barcelona, now moves to "clean" arsenal but is physically making a mockery of the premier league.
Maybe it's because he's practically the main man at Arsenal and not just another player at Barca supplementing Messi. The same can be said for Henry coming from a doping club at Juve. Not everything can be solely judged from a doping perspective. Plenty of other players have gone the other way like Overmars, Petit, Hleb and they were shadows of their former selves. Were they supposed to be on the juice at Arsenal and off it at Barca? There's more to judging players varying performances at a club than just simply seeing it on doping alone. There's differing reasons for those three players just mentioned.

That being said, I was speaking in terms of Wenger's position. I'm not stupid enough to suggest every player during the Wenger era was 100% clean. That's the case no matter how vehemently anti-doping Wenger would be.
Wenger vehemently anti-doping? Mr "I-Didn't-See-It" when his players are at their dirtiest?? Yet can still see exactly how an opponent has dived or cheated from the furthest point across the pitch??
Lots of managers do it. It's manager speak. I remember Ferguson at the time of the Eduardo dive say he agreed with the retrospective action that came from UEFA (before they backed down) but at the same time said he would have done the same thing as Wenger in defending Eduardo publicly. He said it was all about keeping the dressing room strong and keeping players on side. It was no different to him to doing it with Ronaldo after his dives.

I don't like seeing it but if I was a manager I would do it myself.

The fundamental point is that it still has no bearing on if a team has doped.

He now claims "he didn't inject them"... he may not have done it himself, but I bet he knew full well what was going on. Football's French version of JV, anyone?
nothing to see here, jog on... :rolleyes:
He was speaking in terms of banned substances. What went on then could be perfectly legal for all we know.

It's there for any journalist to query. Why doesn't Kimmage go over to London Colney to ask him? That's something I'd like to see him to do.

What we see now is accuse first, ask questions later.
 
Jul 23, 2012
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Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
buckle said:
The Hitch said:
GuyIncognito said:
As much as Wenger is an arrogant **, he did mention a while back that several times they signed players who arrived with silly high hemoglobin levels.
I thought that before for a while too. But then remember narcisinho also attacked barca for doping while real were of course also implicated, and pirlo attacked deportivo.

But after radcliffe, I can't fully trust people just because they spoke out.

I don't see how Arsenal could have operated at such a high level for the last 2 decades in this cesspit of a sport while being the only clean in the village.

Maybe Wenger doesn't operate it himself or maybe he's a jv, pretending to keep his distance. But someone like Alexis, who's just come over from dopingstan and continues to be tip top at all the physical attributes like speed, strength and stamina, given what wr know about doping in football, it's difficult to but into arsenal as this anti doping island.

No Frenchman ever tarnished his reputation by accusing the Spanish of doping. The no-go area is the Anglos hence Armstrong and now UK Postal.
Huh?
What I was trying to say is that the French feel more emboldened to casually attack Spanish dopers than those from the Anglo sphere. The latter group have more power and influence. This whole anti-Spanish narrative is an accepted convention in polite French society. The perceived anti-Anglo Saxon bias of the French is simply that - a perception.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Wenger has spoken more about his recent comments.

“I’m not satisfied with the level of testing because I believe blood tests should be done,” he said. “If you want to go into a bit more sophistication you have to do blood checks. Urine checks are superficial and not deep enough to say absolutely sure that we have no doping problem in football.

“I think no [we don’t have a problem] and I wish no but on the other hand, can you have 740 football players at a World Cup and come out with zero alert on any doping? It’s a little bit surprising. I hope it is true but I think to be completely sure about it, you want to go into deeper tests.”

Wenger was also asked what deterrents can be put in place to prevent doping and admitted that the current regulations may not be enough to dissuade players from breaking the rules.

“Look, you have to come to the facts,” he said. “There are two reasons why a player is doped. First, on personal initiative. That means he hides to his club that he doped because he’s scared to lose his place, because he wants to impress, because he has an individual or personal reason to enhance his performance. Or it is organised by the club to dope some players and enhance the performances because they are not ready or not good enough or because they have a special competition.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/16/arsene-wenger-blood-testing-arsenal-doping#_=_
 
gooner said:
Wenger has spoken more about his recent comments.

“I’m not satisfied with the level of testing because I believe blood tests should be done,” he said. “If you want to go into a bit more sophistication you have to do blood checks. Urine checks are superficial and not deep enough to say absolutely sure that we have no doping problem in football.

“I think no [we don’t have a problem] and I wish no but on the other hand, can you have 740 football players at a World Cup and come out with zero alert on any doping? It’s a little bit surprising. I hope it is true but I think to be completely sure about it, you want to go into deeper tests.”

Wenger was also asked what deterrents can be put in place to prevent doping and admitted that the current regulations may not be enough to dissuade players from breaking the rules.

“Look, you have to come to the facts,” he said. “There are two reasons why a player is doped. First, on personal initiative. That means he hides to his club that he doped because he’s scared to lose his place, because he wants to impress, because he has an individual or personal reason to enhance his performance. Or it is organised by the club to dope some players and enhance the performances because they are not ready or not good enough or because they have a special competition.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/16/arsene-wenger-blood-testing-arsenal-doping#_=_
would take anything he says with a grain of salt...
considering the timing of this:
It was not greatly dissimilar from the time, in early 2013, when Arsenal’s manager came out with the line that football was “full of legends who are, in fact, cheats”
is more likely this was said in frustration with the pressure mounting as he hadn't won any silverware for about 9 years...
"because they have a special competition"? is this why his lot can't get past the semi's in the CL? They do pretty well each year, but always seem to stumble at the last few hurdles... but back to back FA Cups, eh Arsene?

smacks a bit of a narrative that he's cleverly shifting the blame here, and it's not like he's never done that before... poor old arsenal are always getting cheated :rolleyes:
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Archibald said:
gooner said:
Wenger has spoken more about his recent comments.

“I’m not satisfied with the level of testing because I believe blood tests should be done,” he said. “If you want to go into a bit more sophistication you have to do blood checks. Urine checks are superficial and not deep enough to say absolutely sure that we have no doping problem in football.

“I think no [we don’t have a problem] and I wish no but on the other hand, can you have 740 football players at a World Cup and come out with zero alert on any doping? It’s a little bit surprising. I hope it is true but I think to be completely sure about it, you want to go into deeper tests.”

Wenger was also asked what deterrents can be put in place to prevent doping and admitted that the current regulations may not be enough to dissuade players from breaking the rules.

“Look, you have to come to the facts,” he said. “There are two reasons why a player is doped. First, on personal initiative. That means he hides to his club that he doped because he’s scared to lose his place, because he wants to impress, because he has an individual or personal reason to enhance his performance. Or it is organised by the club to dope some players and enhance the performances because they are not ready or not good enough or because they have a special competition.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/16/arsene-wenger-blood-testing-arsenal-doping#_=_
would take anything he says with a grain of salt...
considering the timing of this:
It was not greatly dissimilar from the time, in early 2013, when Arsenal’s manager came out with the line that football was “full of legends who are, in fact, cheats”
is more likely this was said in frustration with the pressure mounting as he hadn't won any silverware for about 9 years...
"because they have a special competition"? is this why his lot can't get past the semi's in the CL? They do pretty well each year, but always seem to stumble at the last few hurdles... but back to back FA Cups, eh Arsene?

smacks a bit of a narrative that he's cleverly shifting the blame here, and it's not like he's never done that before... poor old arsenal are always getting cheated :rolleyes:
Just like his comments at the time of Rio Ferdinand's ban about signing players from abroad with suspicious blood values. Half way through an unbeaten season and right in the era of Wenger's successful years. :rolleyes:

He was speaking in simplistic terms of the dynamics of how doping would be done in football and wasn't just referencing "special competition" in pointing that out.
 
Jul 23, 2012
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Wenger's frustration is Radcliffe like. He is losing the arms race at Arsenal (is that a pun?) so turns to moral indignity - it seems part of the pathology. Perhaps he should hoist a banner with the magic words "EPO cheats out" the next time his team play in Europe.
 
Damn, cycling and soccer are my two favorite sports and ones that I participate in. Sucks that both are tainted by doping, as they're both simple, yet beautiful, games.

Oh well, sporting at the highest levels is not about fair competition.
 
gooner said:
Archibald said:
gooner said:
Wenger has spoken more about his recent comments.

“I’m not satisfied with the level of testing because I believe blood tests should be done,” he said. “If you want to go into a bit more sophistication you have to do blood checks. Urine checks are superficial and not deep enough to say absolutely sure that we have no doping problem in football.

“I think no [we don’t have a problem] and I wish no but on the other hand, can you have 740 football players at a World Cup and come out with zero alert on any doping? It’s a little bit surprising. I hope it is true but I think to be completely sure about it, you want to go into deeper tests.”

Wenger was also asked what deterrents can be put in place to prevent doping and admitted that the current regulations may not be enough to dissuade players from breaking the rules.

“Look, you have to come to the facts,” he said. “There are two reasons why a player is doped. First, on personal initiative. That means he hides to his club that he doped because he’s scared to lose his place, because he wants to impress, because he has an individual or personal reason to enhance his performance. Or it is organised by the club to dope some players and enhance the performances because they are not ready or not good enough or because they have a special competition.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/16/arsene-wenger-blood-testing-arsenal-doping#_=_
would take anything he says with a grain of salt...
considering the timing of this:
It was not greatly dissimilar from the time, in early 2013, when Arsenal’s manager came out with the line that football was “full of legends who are, in fact, cheats”
is more likely this was said in frustration with the pressure mounting as he hadn't won any silverware for about 9 years...
"because they have a special competition"? is this why his lot can't get past the semi's in the CL? They do pretty well each year, but always seem to stumble at the last few hurdles... but back to back FA Cups, eh Arsene?

smacks a bit of a narrative that he's cleverly shifting the blame here, and it's not like he's never done that before... poor old arsenal are always getting cheated :rolleyes:
Just like his comments at the time of Rio Ferdinand's ban about signing players from abroad with suspicious blood values. Half way through an unbeaten season and right in the era of Wenger's successful years. :rolleyes:

He was speaking in simplistic terms of the dynamics of how doping would be done in football and wasn't just referencing "special competition" in pointing that out.
2013 wasn't an unbeaten season - it was a pretty empty trophy cabinet at that point since '04 - so, yes his frustrations while the pressure was continuing to mount is well relevant...
As for Rio, well, any jibe he could make to ruffle Fergie has always been taken regardless of what else was going on

And of course he's speaking 'generally', but then adds "special competition", which is pretty obvious what he's referring to by adding that bit
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Archibald said:
2013 wasn't an unbeaten season- it was a pretty empty trophy cabinet at that point since '04 - so, yes his frustrations while the pressure was continuing to mount is well relevant...
As for Rio, well, any jibe he could make to ruffle Fergie has always been taken regardless of what else was going on

And of course he's speaking 'generally', but then adds "special competition", which is pretty obvious what he's referring to by adding that bit
In fact it was just after the unbeaten season.

"We have had some players come to us at Arsenal from other clubs abroad and their red blood cell count has been abnormally high," said Wenger.

The Highbury boss added: "That kind of thing makes you wonder."

EPO increases the oxygen-carrying capability of blood and Wenger said: "There are clubs who dope their players without the players knowing.

"The club might say that they were being injected with vitamins and the player would not necessarily know that it was something different."

Wenger was speaking at a debate in Brussels on the contribution of football to European integration.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/3725668.stm

And I don't see it as a jibe when he was referring to his own players.
 
gooner said:
Archibald said:
2013 wasn't an unbeaten season- it was a pretty empty trophy cabinet at that point since '04 - so, yes his frustrations while the pressure was continuing to mount is well relevant...
As for Rio, well, any jibe he could make to ruffle Fergie has always been taken regardless of what else was going on

And of course he's speaking 'generally', but then adds "special competition", which is pretty obvious what he's referring to by adding that bit
In fact it was just after the unbeaten season.
eh?? 2012/13 wasn't unbeaten... and what I quoted was from 2013

"We have had some players come to us at Arsenal from other clubs abroad and their red blood cell count has been abnormally high," said Wenger.

The Highbury boss added: "That kind of thing makes you wonder."

EPO increases the oxygen-carrying capability of blood and Wenger said: "There are clubs who dope their players without the players knowing.

"The club might say that they were being injected with vitamins and the player would not necessarily know that it was something different."

Wenger was speaking at a debate in Brussels on the contribution of football to European integration.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/3725668.stm

And I don't see it as a jibe when he was referring to his own players.
so let me get this straight: during the standard pre-transfer medical, he finds out they have an abnormally high red blood cell count, but doesn't reject the transfer/player when he discovers the reason for why said player appeared to be so good and was worth signing the first place??
He wonders, "hmmm.. this guy was so good because he was doped, but we'll still sign him because he'll be just as good for us once he's clean"...

yeah, right :rolleyes:
 
Sep 27, 2011
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Re:

Eagle said:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34801778

The FA said in a statement: "The FA, in conjunction with United Kingdom Anti-Doping (Ukad), operates one of the most comprehensive anti-doping testing programmes in the world.
There are over 4000 members of the PFA and on average the FA carry out about 1500 tests per year. That's not what I would call comprehensive.

Edit: just checked and in the last year they did over 2000 tests so its gone from a 33% change of being tested in a season to a 50% chance.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Archibald said:
so let me get this straight: during the standard pre-transfer medical, he finds out they have an abnormally high red blood cell count, but doesn't reject the transfer/player when he discovers the reason for why said player appeared to be so good and was worth signing the first place??
He wonders, "hmmm.. this guy was so good because he was doped, but we'll still sign him because he'll be just as good for us once he's clean"...

yeah, right :rolleyes:
salient point.
 
slowspoke said:
The plot thickens

Arsène Wenger has claimed his criticism of Uefa over doping resulted in 10 anti-doping officers turning up at Arsenal’s training ground last Friday to carry out random checks on his players.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/23/arsene-wenger-accuses-uefa-accepting-doping-arsenal-dynamo-zagreb
Gold!
He wants more testing, then gets sh*tty because he gets what he's called for - did he seriously think his side was above suspicion after saying that he's had players arrive with dodgy blood counts?? :rolleyes:
 
Archibald said:
slowspoke said:
The plot thickens

Arsène Wenger has claimed his criticism of Uefa over doping resulted in 10 anti-doping officers turning up at Arsenal’s training ground last Friday to carry out random checks on his players.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/23/arsene-wenger-accuses-uefa-accepting-doping-arsenal-dynamo-zagreb
Gold!
He wants more testing, then gets sh*tty because he gets what he's called for - did he seriously think his side was above suspicion after saying that he's had players arrive with dodgy blood counts?? :rolleyes:
Probably saw Paula Radcliffe being ordained as clean because she once stood next to a banner and figured that that's how it works around here.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Archibald said:
slowspoke said:
The plot thickens

Arsène Wenger has claimed his criticism of Uefa over doping resulted in 10 anti-doping officers turning up at Arsenal’s training ground last Friday to carry out random checks on his players.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/23/arsene-wenger-accuses-uefa-accepting-doping-arsenal-dynamo-zagreb
Gold!
He wants more testing, then gets sh*tty because he gets what he's called for - did he seriously think his side was above suspicion after saying that he's had players arrive with dodgy blood counts?? :rolleyes:
He didn't get rattled over it. He welcomed that his comments may have influenced it.

I came out on that and as a result we had a doping control from Uefa on Friday. We had 10 people on Friday to control us. I said that before I want better controls. And we got better controls straight away. I don’t remember we have been controlled before, we have nothing against it. I called for more blood checks. That’s a major issue.”
The very reason he said it, is that he hadn't seen this to that level done before. He was responding to a question on it. But hey, don't let get facts get in the way. Just like Wenger only speaking about doping during the lean years of his reign when in fact he also did so at the height of the successful years.

I happen to agree with him, if teams get deducted points for playing an illegal player, then a a player testing positive should result in the same.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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The Hitch said:
Archibald said:
slowspoke said:
The plot thickens

Arsène Wenger has claimed his criticism of Uefa over doping resulted in 10 anti-doping officers turning up at Arsenal’s training ground last Friday to carry out random checks on his players.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/23/arsene-wenger-accuses-uefa-accepting-doping-arsenal-dynamo-zagreb
Gold!
He wants more testing, then gets sh*tty because he gets what he's called for - did he seriously think his side was above suspicion after saying that he's had players arrive with dodgy blood counts?? :rolleyes:
Probably saw Paula Radcliffe being ordained as clean because she once stood next to a banner and figured that that's how it works around here.
It has nothing to do with it, other then giving yourself a pat on the back.

We're talking about a sport where the media and fans show little or no interest on the topic of doping and has nowhere near the same scrutiny as other sports like cycling and athletics. Under that scrutiny in those sports, many would play the clean card to deflect questions away. That same level of questioning and accountability is nowhere to be seen in football. If a manager is doping his players, the easiest thing would be the stay quiet and keep the status quo going, particularly when there are never big bust nowadays in football. It's actually nonsensical to keep talking about the issue.
 
Nov 20, 2015
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Yup, for whatever reason Wenger is stirring the pot in a big way in European football. I don't remember anyone of similar status currently involved in the game raising these questions before. He's forcing people to take notice and acknowledge there's a problem in the worlds biggest sport.
It's a bit strange that people here apart from gooner think this isn't noteworthy. Here's your Bassons, your doping jesus getting stamped on by the authorities for breaking omerta. All he's getting here is scorn.
 

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