Doping in XC skiing

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

I don’t know, but either EOS is completely stupid or he managed to – in a quite clever way – to raise questions that wouldn’t have been possibly to raise in a direct way.

It's the first one.

Other great comments from him:

Praising Katusha for bringing in Stein Ørn to save them from having to dope to cope. Now the whole team can succeed with his magic training formula like Kristoff. (http://www.dagbladet.no/2015/10/16/sport/sykkel/stein_orn/alexander_kristoff/41535178/) Not going well so far, though.

Praising Edvald for "giving away his silver" to help Kristoff in Richmond because he will benefit from it in the long run. (http://www.dagbladet.no/2015/09/28/sport/sykling/sykkel-vm2015/alexander_kristoff/edvald_boasson_hagen/41260056/)

Sundby is the greatest of Norwegian sports. (http://www.dagbladet.no/2015/01/11/sport/langrenn/tour_de_ski_2015/martin_johnsrud_sundby/37120440/)

EOS? More like POS!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Martin Fourcade questions Abramova's excuse, pointing out that while her reasoning for the positive based on having been given a prescription for something prior to Jan.1, it is concerning that she had a prescription for something related to acute angina and serious cardiac problems...

 

[python]

Re:

Martin Fourcade questions Abramova's excuse, pointing out that while her reasoning for the positive based on having been given a prescription for something prior to Jan.1, it is concerning that she had a prescription for something related to acute angina and serious cardiac problems...

martin is questioning her properly but from a wrong angle.

i dont like piling up on easy targets. be they the busted eastern europeans or whoever, but the abramova explanation is a shear nonsense scientifically speaking. the fourcade angle, if it was re-stated properly, applies to a very controversial subject of supposedly ill/unhealthy athletes being allowed to use meds to correct a health issue. thus, that abramova excuse could theoretically equal another controversial, but imo border-line practice of using the anti-asthma meds.

indeed, why one athlete can correct a lung condition legally, but another athlete is busted for correcting her heart condition ??

unfortunately for abramova, the anti-doping science re. asthma and such is currently outdated (particularly wrt to the borderline doses) compared to the traditional medicine's understanding of heart and its circulation. the bottom line is that abramova lied. if she stopped taking the mildronate a month before failing the test, as she claimed, it would not and could not be detected b/c of the very short half-life (appr. 6 hours). iow, it's out of the system in 1-2 days. to add salt to the abramova injury, there are multiple medications out there with likely performance enhancing properties that wada is either too backlogged to sort out or is simply not in phase.

 

[BullsFan22]

See, this is the sort of BIAS that the Norwegians show time and time again:

http://www.langrenn.com/emil-iversen-faa-sekunder-fra-pallen-i-falun.5844503-1743.html

Nothing on who won the race until a few lines later..

 

[Blaaswix]

See, this is the sort of BIAS that the Norwegians show time and time again:

http://www.langrenn.com/emil-iversen-faa-sekunder-fra-pallen-i-falun.5844503-1743.html

Nothing on who won the race until a few lines later..

I see you article and I raise you this one http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/02/13/sport/langrenn/idrett/verdenscup/ski/43136824/from Dagbladet. It really is quite appalling that there are only allowed three Norwegians in the top three, when really there should be four. It's almost as if other competitors don't realise that this is a Norwegian sport, for Norwegians. Come on FIS, get your act together.

(Spoiler alert: TJ won.)

 

[Discgear]

TJs victory margin yesterday over the best non-Norwegians and usual suspects like the Americans and Kowa was 4.5% and over the best Finn and Swede 5.5%. The victory margin over the best Russian lady - aka the country with the biggest economic support, biggest number of skiers and talent pool, most skis sold and so on - was 8.5%. Your scientific conclusion mister Esten O. Sæther? Especially since you don't hesitate to mention doping and base your opinions on articles in peer-reviewed journals.

 

[Blaaswix]

Lots of Norwegian whining today because Utsjugov won the 15km today and Sundby was the best placed Norwegian in 3rd place of the six Norwegians that finished in the top ten. This is all wrong, apparently, and the organisers should have made the track wider so it suited Northug's late sprint. Aftenposten even has a story (behind the paywall) with the title 'Northug on the Russians - "they're destroying the sport" '. Words fail me.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Northug is like Peter Sagan, only without the defensible racing, and actually a criminal. Any race he wins is a blow struck directly to the heart of the sport far more than any Sundby, Johaug or even Bjørgen show. Anybody who gives this idiot column inches with clown-like statements like that forfeits their right to be taken seriously.

 

[Trond Vidar]

Re:

Lots of Norwegian whining today because Utsjugov won the 15km today and Sundby was the best placed Norwegian in 3rd place of the six Norwegians that finished in the top ten. This is all wrong, apparently, and the organisers should have made the track wider so it suited Northug's late sprint. Aftenposten even has a story (behind the paywall) with the title 'Northug on the Russians - "they're destroying the sport" '. Words fail me.

Agree with everything except the last part. He said that with a bucket full or irony, and that is also referenced by the newspaper.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Lots of Norwegian whining today because Utsjugov won the 15km today and Sundby was the best placed Norwegian in 3rd place of the six Norwegians that finished in the top ten. This is all wrong, apparently, and the organisers should have made the track wider so it suited Northug's late sprint. Aftenposten even has a story (behind the paywall) with the title 'Northug on the Russians - "they're destroying the sport" '. Words fail me.

Agree with everything except the last part. He said that with a bucket full or irony, and that is also referenced by the newspaper.

Yeah, I knew instantly that it was irony/sarcasm. He said that because the Russians have won three straight men's races. He probably hears/reads/watches people (like us non-norwegians here) complaining about Norwegians dominating, so now that someone else gets on a role, it's bad.

Northug actually respects the Russians a lot. He's trained with Legkov and Chernousov in the past, and he has often praised those guys and guys like Kriukov and Vylegzhanin for various performances. Now, if they were Swedes, I would be confused as to what he would mean by the remarks!

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Northug is like Peter Sagan, only without the defensible racing, and actually a criminal. Any race he wins is a blow struck directly to the heart of the sport far more than any Sundby, Johaug or even Bjørgen show. Anybody who gives this idiot column inches with clown-like statements like that forfeits their right to be taken seriously.

The media give him the forum to say thought provoking things because he is a perfect headline maker. He says all sort of things and people lap it up and make everything he says a big deal. If he said he was gonna become a Swiss citizen next week, it would get at least a mention somewhere in the major newspapers in Norway.

Sagan, I think, is more playful and like you said, doesn't rely on cowardly tactics to win races. He attacks rather than sitting on the back, drafting for 99% of the race.

 

[Discgear]

The hunt on the Russians continues. Be it in Norwegian lead Nato with Stoltenberg, or in Norwegian influenced IBU or FIS. Put the light on a spot far away from the crime scene.

http://www.nrk.no/sport/ibu-sjef-starter-dopingetterforskning-av-sotsji-ol-1.12804212

Don't forget the suppressed anger of the late Bengt Saltin. He clearly was upset with the seek and hide game by the Norwegian ski federation.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Another biathlon Meldonium positive. Once more no word on the athlete, who is suspended effective today. All we know is that it would not appear to be a German as DSV have confirmed again that neither they nor their athletes have been contacted.

 

[python]

a very good bet unfortunately it is another eastern european.

basically, for 2 reasons. the drug meldonium/meldonate is essentially an eastern europeam medication researched, validated and produced there (riga). if i recall it right (but not sure) it is not approved for use by the us fda...

why did they start catching so many so easily right after the drug was added to the banned list ? it is b/c the drug had a monitored chemical status all along. that is, it was tested for by all 34 wada labs along with all banned stuff but not reported as positive. the names whose samples were tainted as 'monitored' were known to wada (but not to national or the sports feds) all along. once meldonium went on the 2016 banned list, it was a simple matter of target testing those who were already known as users.

 

[BullsFan22]

The hunt on the Russians continues. Be it in Norwegian lead Nato with Stoltenberg, or in Norwegian influenced IBU or FIS. Put the light on a spot far away from the crime scene.

http://www.nrk.no/sport/ibu-sjef-starter-dopingetterforskning-av-sotsji-ol-1.12804212

Don't forget the suppressed anger of the late Bengt Saltin. He clearly was upset with the seek and hide game by the Norwegian ski federation.

?

 

[Discgear]

The hunt on the Russians continues. Be it in Norwegian lead Nato with Stoltenberg, or in Norwegian influenced IBU or FIS. Put the light on a spot far away from the crime scene.

http://www.nrk.no/sport/ibu-sjef-starter-dopingetterforskning-av-sotsji-ol-1.12804212

Don't forget the suppressed anger of the late Bengt Saltin. He clearly was upset with the seek and hide game by the Norwegian ski federation.

?

Don't remember? Go back to February-March 2014 in this very thread.

 

[python]

The hunt on the Russians continues. Be it in Norwegian lead Nato with Stoltenberg, or in Norwegian influenced IBU or FIS. Put the light on a spot far away from the crime scene.

http://www.nrk.no/sport/ibu-sjef-starter-dopingetterforskning-av-sotsji-ol-1.12804212

Don't forget the suppressed anger of the late Bengt Saltin. He clearly was upset with the seek and hide game by the Norwegian ski federation.

?

Don't remember? Go back to February-March 2014 in this very thread.

that's right !

it is not too difficult to establish 3 facts about the late dr. bengt saltin:
1. he was the man calling all shots scientifically and medically speaking in the sport for a looooong time
2. his skeptical opinions (including about the blood values no one was better positioned to know about them him), if and when expressed, were always measured , polite gentleman-like and balanced. it is an absolute true observation compared to another swede and perhaps equally qualified but far less reserved scientist like damsgaard
3. bengt, an ultimate professional, never had any personal reason to join the typical (occasionally serious) blame game btwn the norwegians and the swedes.

b/c he was skeptical and had the courage to say so about the blood values of certain champions from an era where the norwegians ruled earned him the tag of beeing an old deranged man (here in the clinic and in the norwegian media), this fact should speak for itself.

i mean, if one, anyone, has the resedue of being independent and impartial !

 

[Discgear]

The hunt on the Russians continues. Be it in Norwegian lead Nato with Stoltenberg, or in Norwegian influenced IBU or FIS. Put the light on a spot far away from the crime scene.

http://www.nrk.no/sport/ibu-sjef-starter-dopingetterforskning-av-sotsji-ol-1.12804212

Don't forget the suppressed anger of the late Bengt Saltin. He clearly was upset with the seek and hide game by the Norwegian ski federation.

?

Don't remember? Go back to February-March 2014 in this very thread.

that's right !

it is not too difficult to establish 3 facts about the late dr. bengt saltin:
1. he was the man calling all shots scientifically and medically speaking in the sport for a looooong time
2. his skeptical opinions (including about the blood values no one was better positioned to know about them him), if and when expressed, were always measured , polite gentleman-like and balanced. it is an absolute true observation compared to another swede and perhaps equally qualified but far less reserved scientist like damsgaard
3. bengt, an ultimate professional, never had any personal reason to join the typical (occasionally serious) blame game btwn the norwegians and the swedes.

b/c he was skeptical and had the courage to say so about the blood values of certain champions from an era where the norwegians ruled earned him the tag of beeing an old deranged man (here in the clinic and in the norwegian media), this fact should speak for itself.

i mean, if one, anyone, has the resedue of being independent and impartial !

Kudos

 

[BullsFan22]

The hunt on the Russians continues. Be it in Norwegian lead Nato with Stoltenberg, or in Norwegian influenced IBU or FIS. Put the light on a spot far away from the crime scene.

http://www.nrk.no/sport/ibu-sjef-starter-dopingetterforskning-av-sotsji-ol-1.12804212

Don't forget the suppressed anger of the late Bengt Saltin. He clearly was upset with the seek and hide game by the Norwegian ski federation.

?

Don't remember? Go back to February-March 2014 in this very thread.

Sorry, but I just don't remember all the specifics on Saltin in this particular thread. I do know through the SVT documentary "Blood Race" and the high blood values in xc skiers in the 90's what he said or what the gist was. It's too bad he never fully came out and said what we all (well, most of us, anyway) feel.

 

[BullsFan22]

The hunt on the Russians continues. Be it in Norwegian lead Nato with Stoltenberg, or in Norwegian influenced IBU or FIS. Put the light on a spot far away from the crime scene.

http://www.nrk.no/sport/ibu-sjef-starter-dopingetterforskning-av-sotsji-ol-1.12804212

Don't forget the suppressed anger of the late Bengt Saltin. He clearly was upset with the seek and hide game by the Norwegian ski federation.

?

Don't remember? Go back to February-March 2014 in this very thread.

that's right !

it is not too difficult to establish 3 facts about the late dr. bengt saltin:
1. he was the man calling all shots scientifically and medically speaking in the sport for a looooong time
2. his skeptical opinions (including about the blood values no one was better positioned to know about them him), if and when expressed, were always measured , polite gentleman-like and balanced. it is an absolute true observation compared to another swede and perhaps equally qualified but far less reserved scientist like damsgaard
3. bengt, an ultimate professional, never had any personal reason to join the typical (occasionally serious) blame game btwn the norwegians and the swedes.

b/c he was skeptical and had the courage to say so about the blood values of certain champions from an era where the norwegians ruled earned him the tag of beeing an old deranged man (here in the clinic and in the norwegian media), this fact should speak for itself.

i mean, if one, anyone, has the resedue of being independent and impartial !

I googled Bengt Saltin and then one of the searches in the bar was Bjoern Daehlie, of course. This was the first thing that came up:

http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/ski-vm-2013/daehlie-oppgitt-over-dopingpaastander/a/10100658/

This was basically the same time that the SVT documentary came out.

 

[python]

The hunt on the Russians continues. Be it in Norwegian lead Nato with Stoltenberg, or in Norwegian influenced IBU or FIS. Put the light on a spot far away from the crime scene.

http://www.nrk.no/sport/ibu-sjef-starter-dopingetterforskning-av-sotsji-ol-1.12804212

Don't forget the suppressed anger of the late Bengt Saltin. He clearly was upset with the seek and hide game by the Norwegian ski federation.

?

Don't remember? Go back to February-March 2014 in this very thread.

that's right !

it is not too difficult to establish 3 facts about the late dr. bengt saltin:
1. he was the man calling all shots scientifically and medically speaking in the sport for a looooong time
2. his skeptical opinions (including about the blood values no one was better positioned to know about them him), if and when expressed, were always measured , polite gentleman-like and balanced. it is an absolute true observation compared to another swede and perhaps equally qualified but far less reserved scientist like damsgaard
3. bengt, an ultimate professional, never had any personal reason to join the typical (occasionally serious) blame game btwn the norwegians and the swedes.

b/c he was skeptical and had the courage to say so about the blood values of certain champions from an era where the norwegians ruled earned him the tag of beeing an old deranged man (here in the clinic and in the norwegian media), this fact should speak for itself.

i mean, if one, anyone, has the resedue of being independent and impartial !

I googled Bengt Saltin and then one of the searches in the bar was Bjoern Daehlie, of course. This was the first thing that came up:

http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/ski-vm-2013/daehlie-oppgitt-over-dopingpaastander/a/10100658/

This was basically the same time that the SVT documentary came out.

i understand that people usually read only what immediately interests them or close to their views and tastes. take my word, i dont mean this as a criticism or a put down...such is human nature, including mine, but this thread is rather unique (perhaps even considering the scandinavian/russian/finnish etc forums). this thread is a multi-yer repository of all sorts of doping history, references, translations, sources, analysis, opinions...not always, but mostly solid and well stated. in that sense what you just googled could probably be found by searching the thread.

 

[homer133]

The previously suspended Austrian cross-country skier Harald Wurm has admitted doping.

Source (german):
http://derstandard.at/2000031443811/Doping-Langlaeufer-Harald-Wurm-gestaendig

 

[BullsFan22]

The previously suspended Austrian cross-country skier Harald Wurm has admitted doping.

Source (german):
http://derstandard.at/2000031443811/Doping-Langlaeufer-Harald-Wurm-gestaendig

Obviously Austria has a much smaller population of competitive cross country skier and biathletes, but I am sure if we take the percentages of dope cases in these two sports and compare them to the Russians, the Austrians wouldn't be too far back. You'd expect the Russians to have more, mostly due to such a massive number of racers there, but the Austrians, percentage wise, per skier, would be pretty close. Just my feeling.

 

[BullsFan22]

I guess the Asthmatics were a little angry after getting trounced by the Russians in three straight races last week. Came back with a vengeance today. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and a few other hovering near the top as well. Hats off to Manificat and Legkov for sticking with the Asthma train for as long as the did.

 

[Discgear]

I guess the Asthmatics were a little angry after getting trounced by the Russians in three straight races last week. Came back with a vengeance today. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and a few other hovering near the top as well. Hats off to Manificat and Legkov for sticking with the Asthma train for as long as the did.

Yes, today was another slap in the face by the asthmatic red army. When something looks, behaves and smells like a fish - it usually is a fish. This won't hold up. Someone is going to break the omertà.