Doping in XC skiing

[Cloxxki]

Re: Re:

Yes, it very peculiar how many of the very top skiers that do have asthma. I recall this being debated in the early nineties in Sweden as well. It would be interesting to know how many olympics and worlds that have been won without Salbumetol in the last 20 years. To me it's clear that anti-asthma meds have additional perks.

A total ban for all asthma medication with doubtful substances is unfortunately the only way out of this mess. No TUEs. Zero tolerance in the tests. Athletes that cannot cope with it due to real asthma, have to quit elite sports.

And reduce Salbutamol to 400mcg daily.
All TUE's just need to be confirmed by a second phisician, not related to the nation nor sport of the athlete. So skiers can't ask another ski doc, or even someone at FIS. Impartiality needs to be confirmed for each case, on top of that of the phisician's eligibility.

 

[BullsFan22]

Norwegian culture minister named vice president of WADA...

http://www.langrenn.com/linda-hofstad-helleland-ny-visepresident-i-wada.5929086-1743.html

The arrogance in that somewhat short article is just what I was expecting from the Norge's.


Aaaaand then this:


http://www.langrenn.com/vegard-ulvang-har-brukt-forstoeverapparat.5929502-1743.html

 

[Discgear]

Norwegian culture minister named vice president of WADA...

http://www.langrenn.com/linda-hofstad-helleland-ny-visepresident-i-wada.5929086-1743.html

The arrogance in that somewhat short article is just what I was expecting from the Norge's.


Aaaaand then this:


http://www.langrenn.com/vegard-ulvang-har-brukt-forstoeverapparat.5929502-1743.html

The statements by culture minister Helleland has to some of the most sickening reads ever, in blatant arrogancy. Remember she's the responsible minister for sports in Norway including the anti-doping work. On which planet has she been the last months?

A few quotes:
- Antidoping Norge is well renowned for its anti-doping work and has a lot to contribute, says Helleland

- Young athletes today have to know they are able to compete in a clean sport and this is more important than ever.

- This is going to be demanding, also for me personally with a heavy work load, but in a time when Norway is demanding a clean sport, I do mean it’s important that we do contribute ourselves, says Helleland

 

[Cloxxki]

What does this hire say about WADA? Are they corrrupt, or just genuinely stupid? No-one else available to fill the seat?
Lately the role of WADA gets worse and worse "press". Is AD doomed?

 

[BullsFan22]

Toenseth 'admits' (though I am not sure if it's really an admission at this point, seeing that current skiers and coaches don't see themselves as doping when using these 'meds') to 'doping,' for the races in Beito. Doesn't see anything wrong with it.

http://www.skisport.ru/news/cross-country/83351/

 

[Blaaswix]

Norway's skiforbund has been phoning critics of Norway's use of asthma medicine: http://www.tv2.no/sport/8737209/ Foreign athletes, coaches and journalists have all been contacted, including Manificat and Kowalczyk's team boss. From the many interesting points in the article:

"Several journalists and commentators have been actively contacted by the Skiforbundet. Amongst them Sweden's most well-known cross-country writer, Tomas Petterson. He was first rung up in advance of the press conference with Johnsrud Sundby. But has afterwward had more phone calls.

" People of high standing in the Skiforbundet have called me and given me 'tips' to direct my gaze toward Sweden instead of continuing to investigate what's happening in Norway, says Petterson"

 

[BullsFan22]

Norway's skiforbund has been phoning critics of Norway's use of asthma medicine: http://www.tv2.no/sport/8737209/ Foreign athletes, coaches and journalists have all been contacted, including Manificat and Kowalczyk's team boss. From the many interesting points in the article:

"Several journalists and commentators have been actively contacted by the Skiforbundet. Amongst them Sweden's most well-known cross-country writer, Tomas Petterson. He was first rung up in advance of the press conference with Johnsrud Sundby. But has afterwward had more phone calls.

" People of high standing in the Skiforbundet have called me and given me 'tips' to direct my gaze toward Sweden instead of continuing to investigate what's happening in Norway, says Petterson"

Jeez. Not even those pesky Russians did this!

 

[Cloxxki]

Whole new levels of "bravoure".

 

[Robert5091]

Norway's skiforbund has been phoning critics of Norway's use of asthma medicine: http://www.tv2.no/sport/8737209/ Foreign athletes, coaches and journalists have all been contacted, including Manificat and Kowalczyk's team boss. From the many interesting points in the article:

"Several journalists and commentators have been actively contacted by the Skiforbundet. Amongst them Sweden's most well-known cross-country writer, Tomas Petterson. He was first rung up in advance of the press conference with Johnsrud Sundby. But has afterwward had more phone calls.

" People of high standing in the Skiforbundet have called me and given me 'tips' to direct my gaze toward Sweden instead of continuing to investigate what's happening in Norway, says Petterson"

"Keeping ahead of the narative" as the CIA say.
Pettersson - writes in Expressen tabloid in Sweden https://twitter.com/bobacken?lang=sv

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.dn.se/sport/norge-jamfordes-med-ddr/
http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/vintersport/skidor/article23985681.ab
Welcome to Ruka!

 

[python]

a pedant in me would demand an '=' sign btwn the ddr and norway

i'd also advise the next poster maker to add this: 'nebulizers=doping' :surprised:

 

[Cloxxki]

How are the Swedish press and people looking at the rise of athma within their own borders?

Have to say, it's nice that DDR is brought up. Wonderful to insult a country and the compared regime doesn't exist anymore, although the land is still there.

 

[jens_attacks]

At first i've read sky team.

God damn cycling.

 

[kingjr]

Re:

At first i've read sky team.

God damn cycling.

lmfao

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

How are the Swedish press and people looking at the rise of athma within their own borders?

Have to say, it's nice that DDR is brought up. Wonderful to insult a country and the compared regime doesn't exist anymore, although the land is still there.

I think it's a bit harsh, mostly because I don't think the Norwegian government and special forces force athletes to dope, even though we know that doping has been going on in Norwegian skiing for at least 25 years, be it through micro-dosing, EPO, altitude houses and enhancement of blood cells, nebulizers, etc. Having said that, who sponsors the Olympiatoppen?

 

[Discgear]

Re:

How are the Swedish press and people looking at the rise of athma within their own borders?

Many have asked for a total ban of asthma medication. Concerning the current status in the Swedish Team I think the clear statements from the team doctor have somewhat calmed the situation. Nebulizers are out of question. Today the team doctor once more went public with how they treat asthma:

När det gäller doser säger skidlandslagets läk­are Per ”Pliggen” Andersson så här:
– Behöver en åkare en dosering som är över de terapeutiska doserna, det vill säga de doser som vi normalt ger till alla i befolkningen tycker inte jag att han ska vara med och träna eller tävla, säger svenska skidlandslagets läkare Per ”Pliggen” Andersson.
– Jag skulle inte behandla en person som kommer till mig med luftvägsbesvär om vi inte har en tydlig diagnos. Då skulle den åkaren få stå över den tävlingen. Det är så vi har hanterat det hittills, säger Per ”Pliggen” Andersson.

In short: If a skier needs higher doses than normal - recommended doses to ordinary people - then the skier won't compete. We would never treat a skier with breathing problems unless there is clear diagnosis.

 

[Random Direction]

and now issues in Canadian x/c skiing: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thisisthat/is-cross-country-skiing-canada-s-most-morally-corrupt-sport-satire-1.3865215?autoplay=true

crazy.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

http://www.dn.se/sport/norge-jamfordes-med-ddr/
http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/vintersport/skidor/article23985681.ab
Welcome to Ruka!

Would be better if it was a picture of Sundby instead of Krogh.

 

[Cloxxki]

Thanks Discgear.
Having a nebulizer in the wax truck should (in a real world) get the whole team banned from competing at a World Cup. Or better, worlds. A few WADA and FIS officials would march in, and ban the team on the spot. Go appeal at CAS after the tournament. Won't happen, neither have looked uncurruptable lately.

 

[Cake]

Re:

Is AD doomed?

Is this part of a 30 year cycle in pro sports do you think? The scenario runs something like: First, deny there's a problem. Second, say it's a few bad eggs. Third, set up a panel to do something, but don't give it the necessary resources.

Fourth, under pressure increase the resources a bit, and after a few high profile busts (insignificant compared to the overall size of the problem but enough to fool the gullible sporting public) say "it is clearly working well and no further resources are necessary".

Fifth, athletes moan about even the pathetically low level of testing they have to do, and slowly it all gets watered down. No one gets caught so there isn't a problem, eventually it gets shut down as a drain on resources.....

 

[meat puppet]

In the context of AD's future prospects I did not like this quote from FIS prez Kasper in this recently fasterskier story:

“We need to stop pretending sport is clean,” he told New York Times reporter Rebecca Ruiz. “It’s a noble principle, but in practice? It’s entertainment. It’s drama.”

http://fasterskier.com/fsarticle/fis-president-kasper-we-need-to-stop-pretending-sport-is-clean/

On the other hand, I mostly agree with his other point that it is not correct to single out and actively vilify certain nations with political motives. In this case russia.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

and now issues in Canadian x/c skiing: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thisisthat/is-cross-country-skiing-canada-s-most-morally-corrupt-sport-satire-1.3865215?autoplay=true

crazy.

Is this supposed to be some sort of Rick Moranis/Dan Aykroyd comedy?? Yes, satire, but it's taking a cheap hit at Canadian XC. I know xc isn't the 'sexiest' sport in Canada, but this won't help raise its status.

 

[abcdaniel]

Aftonbladet has some interesting recent articles on the asthma theme. First off an interview with Lars Larsson, adjunct professor in lung medicine and chairman for the Swedish committee deciding on TUE:s for athletes: http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/vintersport/skidor/article23984305.ab

Larsson talks about how the rules for asthma medicine in sports are inviting abuse, and how the athletes and coaches abusing them might know something more about their performance enhancing effects, than lab based research have shown. Lab research is one thing, but field use represents reality, according to Larsson. For Scandinavian speakers it is an insightful and humble interview, with some facts and event summary below the article. Highlight:

- Judging by Sundby's doses (of asthma meds), and the way he took them, it must have been to dope, it can't be many other ways. That is not normal medical treatment, he says.

– De doser som Sundby tog, och på det sätt han tog det, så måste det ha varit i dopningssyfte, det kan inte vara på så många andra sätt. Det är inte en normal medicinsk behandling, säger han.

In a connected article, Aftonbladet's Petra Thorén tries out Ventoline during training and max test. In summary, she has worse VO2 with Ventoline than without, but she does better on the treadmill, can push herself a bit more, with Ventoline. As she labels it, a journalistic experiment: http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/vintersport/skidor/article23982824.ab

 

[Cake]

Re:

“We need to stop pretending sport is clean,” he told New York Times reporter Rebecca Ruiz. “It’s a noble principle, but in practice? It’s entertainment. It’s drama.”

http://fasterskier.com/fsarticle/fis-president-kasper-we-need-to-stop-pretending-sport-is-clean/

Well, at least he's honest. It might be the most constructive contribution to the PED debate in 2016.

 

[olhell]

Riksidrottförbundet arranged a Asthma-Sports-Doping seminar in october. They have posted 7 videos. Should be of interest, at least for those understanding Swedish

http://www.rf.se/Antidoping/Antidopingarbetet/Dopinginomidrott/Astma-idrott-doping/