Doping in XC skiing

Page 177 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jan 3, 2016
300
0
0
Re:

John de Savage said:
The hypocrisy lies in calling for a complete ban on asthma meds while she herself has used performance enhancing drugs.
The fact that she had a medical reason to do so is not a mitigating circumstance in the context of her routinely criticising sick athletes who benefit from prescription medications. She talks the talk but she didn't walk the walk.
So because Kowalczyk had an injury which she treated with a medicine that is allowed out of comeptition but not in competition , she's not allowed to call out the Norwegian team for having nebulizers on the waxing truck and using asthma meds on athletes that don't have asthma? No, that's not hypocrisy. Kowa is correct and has stood up for her sport when its leading lights haven't.
 
Sep 25, 2009
7,527
1
0
i'm posting in a hurry...

there were some significant doping/anti-doping news today... my apologies if i appear redundant.

the vg.no i read earlier is claiming there is evidence of the johaug' lip cream receipt having an alternative, that is, being bought at a different/another location and at a different (earlier) time. the details are sketchy and unconfirmed.

also, there was an article in the swiss main stream parer, the link: http://www.nzz.ch/sport/analyse-zur-tour-de-ski-ein-solcher-sieger-hilft-seinem-sport-nicht-ld.138714, where reto burgermeister, the former swiss coach of ustiougov - called him the biggest talent in the xc sport ever. that's a lot for a normally VERY reserved swiss and a lot more than a statement by the german isabel knaute (his partner), that ustiogov is 'the biggest talent she knows of, including cologna and northug'

to add to the ever popular theme of 'all the russians dope' reto (i must say, to my considerable surprise b/c i know the swiss quite personally) has doubted ustiougov in the tds, b/c serhey 'refused to carry out his, reto's prescribed workload in the spring'. that ustiougov was at that point at odds with reto and was seeking to change a coach the article is silent on. in fact, serhey post-tds at a press-conf spoke of reto insulting him as being unprofessional and lazy etc. little wonder reto could be angry b/c he was fired by ustiugov for a german coach...

more stuff...
 
http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/johaug-tatt-i-doping/tv-2-ernst-fortalte-dopingjegerne-om-ny-kvittering/a/23893439/
Men Seiser Alm-kvitteringen stammer altså fra dagene før langrennsjentene satte kursen videre mot Livigno, der Johaug og lege Fredrik Bendiksen hevder at sistnevnte gikk til innkjøp av den samme tabbekremen.

Hadde dopingjegerne ment at Therese Johaug kjøpte kremen selv, eller fått den av en annen person enn laglegen, kunne innstillingen til straff blitt betydelig strengere.

The reciept is from before the Team Doc came there, so if she brought the cream herself or someone else did then she's looking at a longer suspension. Not proven so far but the character assassination is going ahead full-steam.
 
Feb 15, 2015
158
0
2,680
A couple of weeks after the TJ story broke I heard a rumour on "what really happened", which led her to buy the cream herself. I'm not gonna go into detail as I have no way of knowing if it's true or not, but with the "new" receipt that the TV2 journalist brought to ADN - the alternative story is suddenly plausible. That would mean that the official story with the doctor is a cover up only to reduce the ban - which at this point seems to work. The alternative story is still an honest mistake and in no way an attempt to gain any advantage, but it is very much her own fault which would make the ban harsher.
 
Re:

python said:
i'm posting in a hurry...

there were some significant doping/anti-doping news today... my apologies if i appear redundant.

the vg.no i read earlier is claiming there is evidence of the johaug' lip cream receipt having an alternative, that is, being bought at a different/another location and at a different (earlier) time. the details are sketchy and unconfirmed.

also, there was an article in the swiss main stream parer, the link: http://www.nzz.ch/sport/analyse-zur-tour-de-ski-ein-solcher-sieger-hilft-seinem-sport-nicht-ld.138714, where reto burgermeister, the former swiss coach of ustiougov - called him the biggest talent in the xc sport ever. that's a lot for a normally VERY reserved swiss and a lot more than a statement by the german isabel knaute (his partner), that ustiogov is 'the biggest talent she knows of, including cologna and northug'

to add to the ever popular theme of 'all the russians dope' reto (i must say, to my considerable surprise b/c i know the swiss quite personally) has doubted ustiougov in the tds, b/c serhey 'refused to carry out his, reto's prescribed workload in the spring'. that ustiougov was at that point at odds with reto and was seeking to change a coach the article is silent on. in fact, serhey post-tds at a press-conf spoke of reto insulting him as being unprofessional and lazy etc. little wonder reto could be angry b/c he was fired by ustiugov for a german coach...

more stuff...

Interesting stuff Python.

Here is an interview with Cramer. I would like to preface by saying, again, that Cramer was a former national development team coach for Germany under then head coach Jochen Behle, also coached the Swiss national team when Cologna was starting to break through on the World Cup, TDS, World's, Olympics...and this was the period when Knauthe (Ustiugov's, Legkov's, Chernousov's, Belov's...former physio that also coached alongside Burgermeister). Kramer essentially praises Ustiugov and his hard work, easy going personality, and his drive and focus. Interestingly, he said that during their pre-TDS camp, it wasn't Ustiugov that was the strongest, it was actually Legkov. Had he been allowed to start, there would have been some very interesting reactions by various athletes on the tour.

http://www.skisport.ru/news/cross-country/84347/

Pretty much the same quotes in this one as well:

http://news.sportbox.ru/Vidy_sporta/cross_country/spbnews_NI706819_Markus_Kramer_Do_starta_Tur_de_Ski_dumal_chto_silnejshij_v_komande__Legkov

Another thing to note, Kramer has worked with Legkov for a number of years now, and helped write Legkov's training plan with Burg. and Knauthe. Some Russian commentators say that he still helps Cologna with some training. Not sure if that's true, but I'll accept it as truth for now. I know that Cologna and Legkov have trained a lot since Legkov started training, almost exclusively in Switzerland/Central Alps since 2010.

Interview with Burg. (I think it's pretty much the same as the one Python shared, but on a different site)

http://www.blick.ch/sport/wintersport/langlauf/ex-trainer-burgermeister-ueber-den-tour-ueberflieger-ustjugow-ist-eher-locker-und-faul-id6003444.html

In one interview, Kramer is (understandably) excited and praises Ustiugov's work ethic, his enthusiasm and his easy going attitude, and in another Burgermeister is saying the opposite. I don't really want to get into the details of this (it's not my business) but one of the reasons Ustiugov, Belov and the others in the Reto/Isabel group split and went to Kramer was because of 'authoritarian' like attitude of Reto-he set strict schedules and the athletes felt like they didn't really have enough time to do other things, even being on their phones and send SMS messages (i am paraphrasing from the skisport.ru article when details of the split emerged in October/November).

But yes, Burgermeister is surprised to see Sergey skiing so well after, in Reto's words, he didn't train as much or doesn't have the attitude to train hard. Maybe he is just upset/jealous now that he doesn't coach and sees his former pupil excelling under a different coach (though one that Reto know's well as they have worked in the past). I am not really sure who to trust. In the above skisport.ru article, one commentator mentions that Ustiugov will have trained or has trained around 800 hours. Now that may not be Sundby numbers, but those are the numbers one would expect a world cup skier to train. If he is doing a normal load, and stays healthy, motivated and wants to work and learn, plus his massive talent, his results are not shocking. Surprising to win 5 stages in a row? Yes, but he didn't breakaway from the field halfway, nor did he win the individual race by a margin (it was half a second). The bonus seconds helped him a lot. There is always discussion whether or not to eliminate bonus seconds. That's off topic though.

So Reto says that Sergey is the biggest talent in xc ever? Markus has similar praise and we know Isabel has mentioned it as well, though as Python says, she said in comparison to someone like Northug and Cologna, she didn't say 'ever.'
 
Kokoso said:
Kokoso said:
BullsFan22 said:
Ustiugov has more natural talent than Sundby.
What is natural talent?
No answer Bullsfan. So you have no idea what natural talent is but still you use it as your strong argument.

Excellent junior results. Was the best or amongst the best in every group in Russia, dominated world juniors, U23's, the first world cup individual win for him was when he was 21, won the qualification i that race by over 3 seconds (he's done that numerous occasions, most recently in Val Mustair, which he dominated), doesn't have great technique but has great glide, a great motor, power, strength, improved his tactics, and showed himself to be mentally very tough. Case in point, look at the way he skied the TDS stages. Knew his where his strengths lie, didn't try and silly maneuvers or breakaways. All his current and former coaches say he's a great talent. Go read the articles Python and I posted here earlier. Isabel Knauthe, Reto Burgermeister, Marcus Kramer, Yury Borodavko, Elena Vaelbe, etc have all said what a talent he is. Borodavko said that 'this type of athlete comes once every 50-100 years.'

What do you think 'natural talent' means? Let's not play semantics here. You are either trolling or you are the one that doesn't know what it means. There is no other possibility.
 
Nov 15, 2015
180
0
0
Re: Re:

I hope TJ gets at least 2 years. Her absence is the best thing that happened to women's XC skiing.

Blaaswix said:
So because Kowalczyk had an injury which she treated with a medicine that is allowed out of comeptition but not in competition , she's not allowed to call out the Norwegian team for having nebulizers on the waxing truck and using asthma meds on athletes that don't have asthma? No, that's not hypocrisy. Kowa is correct and has stood up for her sport when its leading lights haven't.
Don't be a revisionist. Her criticism has nothing to do with nebulizers or using meds on athletes that don't have asthma. You make it sound like she started voicing her opinion within the last 6 months and specifically called out the above mentioned activities. You should know that's not true. Her view can be summarized as follows: sick athletes who need to use meds to perform should not be allowed to do so. Asthmatics should not be allowed to use asthma meds. Asthma meds should be prohibited and therapeutic use exemptions should not be granted. Kowa has made her stance abundantly clear over the past 7 years.
 
Apr 22, 2012
3,570
0
0
BullsFan22 said:
Kokoso said:
Kokoso said:
BullsFan22 said:
Ustiugov has more natural talent than Sundby.
What is natural talent?
No answer Bullsfan. So you have no idea what natural talent is but still you use it as your strong argument.

Excellent junior results. Was the best or amongst the best in every group in Russia, dominated world juniors, U23's, the first world cup individual win for him was when he was 21, won the qualification i that race by over 3 seconds (he's done that numerous occasions, most recently in Val Mustair, which he dominated), doesn't have great technique but has great glide, a great motor, power, strength, improved his tactics, and showed himself to be mentally very tough. Case in point, look at the way he skied the TDS stages. Knew his where his strengths lie, didn't try and silly maneuvers or breakaways. All his current and former coaches say he's a great talent. Go read the articles Python and I posted here earlier. Isabel Knauthe, Reto Burgermeister, Marcus Kramer, Yury Borodavko, Elena Vaelbe, etc have all said what a talent he is. Borodavko said that 'this type of athlete comes once every 50-100 years.'

What do you think 'natural talent' means? Let's not play semantics here. You are either trolling or you are the one that doesn't know what it means. There is no other possibility.
To assess talent based on youth categories can be misleading. Human body is only just developing. Those who are biologically older can have tremendous advantage which can later disappear as maturation ends. Other thing is that he could simply train more, or better way, than his compatriots, that can carry on to older age of course. Yet another thing is that in youth categories concurency is lower and sometimes can be very, very low so to shine doesn't take so much. People who end up on podium in youth categories often go nowhere in pro's. Yet another thing is doping. If someone dopes from, say, 15 years of age...that doesn't need another comment I think.

For me natural talent very difficult to fathom. One would say it's innate, geneticaly given physiologic ability to perform in given area. That includes both body and mind, they are inseparable, influencing each other. Until now it seems quite simple; problem is, there are many other epigenetic factors influencing how talent can express itself. And they begin to act from point zero - from birth. So there is never certainity how natural talent really is. You can never know that, it's as simple as that.
 
Sep 25, 2009
7,527
1
0
today legkov and belov were heard by the fis doping/anti-doping commission.. no reliable information as to what was going on is available. reportedly, belov had some good vibes about the hearing. fis is said to deliver a decision in a week.

to remind, they are suspected in a conspiracy involving the scratches found on their samples containers. the athletes insist they have no idea what happened to the containers after they gave the samples.

curiously, there is a precedent when the CAS acquitted a long jumper with the same story when the international athletics fed denied her entry to the recent olympics.
 
Nov 15, 2015
180
0
0
Can they really ban athletes without evidence of wrong doing on their part? It seems kind of unfair, even if it's obvious that they must have been on something (why else would the russians have manipulated their samples?).

I haven't read anything about the russians switching blood samples, so I assume that did not happen. What's detectable in urine but does not show up in a blood sample?
 
Re:

python said:
today legkov and belov were heard by the fis doping/anti-doping commission.. no reliable information as to what was going on is available. reportedly, belov had some good vibes about the hearing. fis is said to deliver a decision in a week.

to remind, they are suspected in a conspiracy involving the scratches found on their samples containers. the athletes insist they have no idea what happened to the containers after they gave the samples.

curiously, there is a precedent when the CAS acquitted a long jumper with the same story when the international athletics fed denied her entry to the recent olympics.

They (Belov and Legkov) have a German lawyer that defended them in court and I am hearing the same things you are. So far, all the athletes accused have proclaimed innocence (naturally) and all of them have said that they went in to the anti-doping tent/room, gave their urine samples to the anti-doping officials and that's that. I haven't heard an audio/visual on this since Legkov made the very first press conference in early May. That was when the story first broke out. Legkov had with him a big binder of all the tests he was had, the vas majority of them being outside of Russia. All of them clean. FIS later acknowledged that he had indeed been tested as many times as he said in the press conference and that those tests had, indeed, been negative (obviously, as had one of them been positive, we might not be having this discussion). He, like the other 5 athletes that are temporarily suspended have all said that they don't even know who Rodchenkov is. I have no idea what the heck happened over in Sochi and/or Moscow or wherever those samples went or were supposed to go, but without having read either McLaren reports, I'll make an educated guess and say that either EVERYONE was in on it or NOBODY was in on it and Rodchenkov is one slimy character that has an axe to grind. To me, there is no in between here. This is not an easy situation for any of these athletes to be in. Really the only thing they could say at this point is what they've been saying all this time: "I didn't dope, I was tested X amount of times during this period, I provided all the samples and where those samples went or who took them is out of my control."

Legkov, Petukhov and Vylegzhanin have (obviously) proclaimed innocence publicly and also on social media. I am not really sure what any of them can do at this point besides keep telling FIS and CAS and/or whoever else is involved that they have no control over their samples (nor should they or any athlete, that's WADA and other anti-doping agencies job). What Rodchenkov did to manipulate the samples or exchange or whatever he and his team 'may' have done is a completely different issue if the athletes are telling the truth.

However, if it's true that they doped and tests were indeed manipulated to make sure they were all negative, well that's just point of no return.

Either way, the ball is not on their side of the court. How can they prove what happened to the samples once they gave the urine to the testers? I mean, it's completely illegal for athletes to tamper. They would have been DQ'd on the spot had they tried doing something like that. And where was WADA? Who was actually in charge of testing and administering the tests and then storing them for tests? Surely Rodchenkov and his team weren't the only people responsible? Where was WADA and other international testers? Isn't their oversight to make sure there is no foul play? I should think that whether an Olympic sanctioned sport where there is anti-doping work, there needs to be A) valid organizations from the host country AND B) valid international organizations such as WADA there to assist and observe and make sure everyone is run the right way.

Something...or many things...just don't add up here. Like I said, to me there is no in between.
 
Re:

John de Savage said:
Can they really ban athletes without evidence of wrong doing on their part? It seems kind of unfair, even if it's obvious that they must have been on something (why else would the russians have manipulated their samples?).

I haven't read anything about the russians switching blood samples, so I assume that did not happen. What's detectable in urine but does not show up in a blood sample?

While I am sure they were on something (just like Cologna or Olsson or Hellner or Richardson or Sundby) at those games, I am fairly certain they (the athletes) didn't manipulate any tests. The manipulation was 100% done by Rodchenkov and whoever was part of his team then.

The peculiar thing to me, among many in this case, is that Rodchenkov has had an address in California since 2011. He's worked in Russian labs since the 80's, so he's probably seen all sorts of stuff. It's just strange how he's bringing up his stories now, after he's already left the country (did so after Sochi). If he was so concerned about anti-doping and fair play, why didn't he say something years ago? Surely if there was doping and he witnessed it and was part of the system, why wait to say something? Just like Stepanova. She started talking once she failed a test, and once she realized the Russian authorities weren't going to overturn her suspension and they weren't going to give her 'severance pay.' Now she is all high and mighty.
 
Jul 28, 2011
135
0
8,830
BullsFan, even though I mostly agree with you, the continual focus on Rodchenkov detracts from your overall arguments. Occam's razor. Why would Rodchenkov want to anger all of Russia and Putin for some random "axe to grind"? That is asking for a polonium-laced tea, regardless of how good your hiding is. I'm not going to speculate about his motives or even more tangentially, potential politics behind this, just to say asking why Rodchenkov wasn't such an anti-doping advocate in the past but spilled the beans now is the exact same reason Floyd Landis, Tyler Hamilton, Richard Virenque, Lance Armstrong -- the list could go on and on! -- saw it and played the game and vehemently denied until they were compromised enough. It's omerta 101; there is honor among thieves until a certain point when you feel you are getting the punishment for all, then it's just F You! Just like Landis, Hamilton, and Stepanova, as your pointed out. Why assume anything more complicated? Sure maybe there are details behind the scenes but I think the notion that Rodchenkov would just scratch a few thousand sample bottles to piss people off is a complete non sequitur.
 
Apr 22, 2012
3,570
0
0
Re: Re:

BullsFan22 said:
John de Savage said:
Can they really ban athletes without evidence of wrong doing on their part? It seems kind of unfair, even if it's obvious that they must have been on something (why else would the russians have manipulated their samples?).

I haven't read anything about the russians switching blood samples, so I assume that did not happen. What's detectable in urine but does not show up in a blood sample?

While I am sure they were on something (just like Cologna or Olsson or Hellner or Richardson or Sundby) at those games, I am fairly certain they (the athletes) didn't manipulate any tests. The manipulation was 100% done by Rodchenkov and whoever was part of his team then.
You've said that either nobody, or everybody was on it (not sure what it means though). Hour later you say everybody was on it. What made made make up your mind?

The peculiar thing to me, among many in this case, is that Rodchenkov has had an address in California since 2011.
What is peculiar about having an adress in California?
He's worked in Russian labs since the 80's, so he's probably seen all sorts of stuff. It's just strange how he's bringing up his stories now, after he's already left the country (did so after Sochi). If he was so concerned about anti-doping and fair play, why didn't he say something years ago?
Maybe because Rodchenkov enjoys his life and once you are dead, it's much harder, if not impossible ;) I think it's perfectly possible you can't speak openly in Russia about some topics. In this context it would only be logical that he began to speak after he left Russia to some safer part of the world.
 
Apr 22, 2012
3,570
0
0
Re: Re:

BullsFan22 said:
How can they prove what happened to the samples once they gave the urine to the testers? I mean, it's completely illegal for athletes to tamper. They would have been DQ'd on the spot had they tried doing something like that.
Unless there are people who doesn't care at will.
And where was WADA? Who was actually in charge of testing and administering the tests and then storing them for tests? Surely Rodchenkov and his team weren't the only people responsible? Where was WADA and other international testers? Isn't their oversight to make sure there is no foul play? I should think that whether an Olympic sanctioned sport where there is anti-doping work, there needs to be A) valid organizations from the host country AND B) valid international organizations such as WADA there to assist and observe and make sure everyone is run the right way.
I share this opinion with you - it's highly, highle unlikely only Russians were involved given the extent of the whole case.
 
Re: Re:

Kokoso said:
BullsFan22 said:
John de Savage said:
Can they really ban athletes without evidence of wrong doing on their part? It seems kind of unfair, even if it's obvious that they must have been on something (why else would the russians have manipulated their samples?).

I haven't read anything about the russians switching blood samples, so I assume that did not happen. What's detectable in urine but does not show up in a blood sample?

While I am sure they were on something (just like Cologna or Olsson or Hellner or Richardson or Sundby) at those games, I am fairly certain they (the athletes) didn't manipulate any tests. The manipulation was 100% done by Rodchenkov and whoever was part of his team then.
You've said that either nobody, or everybody was on it (not sure what it means though). Hour later you say everybody was on it. What made made make up your mind?

The peculiar thing to me, among many in this case, is that Rodchenkov has had an address in California since 2011.
What is peculiar about having an adress in California?
He's worked in Russian labs since the 80's, so he's probably seen all sorts of stuff. It's just strange how he's bringing up his stories now, after he's already left the country (did so after Sochi). If he was so concerned about anti-doping and fair play, why didn't he say something years ago?
Maybe because Rodchenkov enjoys his life and once you are dead, it's much harder, if not impossible ;) I think it's perfectly possible you can't speak openly in Russia about some topics. In this context it would only be logical that he began to speak after he left Russia to some safer part of the world.
I meant in terms of the Russians only. In terms of the Russian skiers, coaches, Rodchenkov etc. I'll clarify, either the athletes, coaches and Rodchenkov/labs were ALL in on manipulating samples and they all knew it, or it was Rodchenkov and his associates only. That's what I meant by there is no in between.

Python mentioned a while back that according to him, there was probably some micro-dosing.
 
Apr 22, 2012
3,570
0
0
Re: Re:

BullsFan22 said:
Kokoso said:
BullsFan22 said:
John de Savage said:
Can they really ban athletes without evidence of wrong doing on their part? It seems kind of unfair, even if it's obvious that they must have been on something (why else would the russians have manipulated their samples?).

I haven't read anything about the russians switching blood samples, so I assume that did not happen. What's detectable in urine but does not show up in a blood sample?

While I am sure they were on something (just like Cologna or Olsson or Hellner or Richardson or Sundby) at those games, I am fairly certain they (the athletes) didn't manipulate any tests. The manipulation was 100% done by Rodchenkov and whoever was part of his team then.
You've said that either nobody, or everybody was on it (not sure what it means though). Hour later you say everybody was on it. What made made make up your mind?

The peculiar thing to me, among many in this case, is that Rodchenkov has had an address in California since 2011.
What is peculiar about having an adress in California?
He's worked in Russian labs since the 80's, so he's probably seen all sorts of stuff. It's just strange how he's bringing up his stories now, after he's already left the country (did so after Sochi). If he was so concerned about anti-doping and fair play, why didn't he say something years ago?
Maybe because Rodchenkov enjoys his life and once you are dead, it's much harder, if not impossible ;) I think it's perfectly possible you can't speak openly in Russia about some topics. In this context it would only be logical that he began to speak after he left Russia to some safer part of the world.
I meant in terms of the Russians only. In terms of the Russian skiers, coaches, Rodchenkov etc. I'll clarify, either the athletes, coaches and Rodchenkov/labs were ALL in on manipulating samples and they all knew it, or it was Rodchenkov and his associates only. That's what I meant by there is no in between.

Python mentioned a while back that according to him, there was probably some micro-dosing.
Thanks. I've suspected I've got it wrong.

We can be sure about one thing - Sundby was at least on salbutamol. Maybe even corticoids and ipratropium (which is not banned I think).

Microdosing is these times easily very likely option, if not the only one - because you have BPs.
 
Talk about adding fuel to the fire. Who runs FLGR? Elena Vaelbe is the the president of the FLGR, a woman with millions of years of experience, having raced all over the world and having dealt with many colleagues, coaches, athletes, sponsors (both domestic and foreign), etc is acting like a complete amateur. No, actually a complete beginner. How completely stupid do you have to be to OK one of your currently (temporarily) banned athletes while he is waiting on the results of the FIS doping panel? Vylegzhanin, to his credit, first checked with Vaelbe and Vedenin (former xc great, now working as a FIS Delegate) to see if he can compete in some regional, non-FIS sanctioned races in his home region of Udmurtia. Vaelbe said it shouldn't be a problem and she then checked with Vedenin, who...not sure if he checked with any other FIS representatives, said it was ok, as it wasn't FIS sanctioned. So the man raced. January 7 and 14. He won both races. Great that he won and trying to stay in form...but...under FIS rules, a temporarily banned athlete cannot take part in any national races that are run by the national federation, and since virtually all national federations are FIS representatives and have to abide by FIS rules, on not just anti-doping, but anything FIS related, the Udmurtia races, although not on the FIS calendar, are on the FLGR calendar, therefore the rules still seem to apply.

While I understand Vylegzhanin's frustration in not being allowed to start the TDS, and also wanting to have races to prepare for the World's in Lahti, and I respect the fact that he didn't just blindly go and take part in the Udmurtia races, I have to first of all question Vaelbe and Vedenin's complete ignorance on the FIS rules. Why risk this? Why not let Vylegzhanin know that 'wait it out, even if you have to wait another month-you'll know before World's, don't take part in these races, find other local races that aren't sanctioned, a marathon perhaps, and/or find a few training mates that are not on the national team...' There are plenty of fast Russians that are currently not on the National team and are not sponsored by the National team. Go and train with them, you might not gain much by not racing in Udmurtia, but you certainly won't lose it all. Considering the situation he is in, whether or not he believes he is clean or dirty, he should have waited. You can't hurt yourself by waiting. Instead of losing two weeks, he may lose two years because of this. This is very unprofessional. It will only add to the anti-Russian hysteria. I feel sorry for these athletes. Their so-called 'leaders' seem to be completely useless. If you are not sure of the wording in the FIS documents on this, check with someone else that is or understands English a little bit better than you. It really isn't that difficult.
 
BullsFan22 said:
Talk about adding fuel to the fire. Who runs FLGR? Elena Vaelbe is the the president of the FLGR, a woman with millions of years of experience, having raced all over the world and having dealt with many colleagues, coaches, athletes, sponsors (both domestic and foreign), etc is acting like a complete amateur. No, actually a complete beginner. How completely stupid do you have to be to OK one of your currently (temporarily) banned athletes while he is waiting on the results of the FIS doping panel? Vylegzhanin, to his credit, first checked with Vaelbe and Vedenin (former xc great, now working as a FIS Delegate) to see if he can compete in some regional, non-FIS sanctioned races in his home region of Udmurtia. Vaelbe said it shouldn't be a problem and she then checked with Vedenin, who...not sure if he checked with any other FIS representatives, said it was ok, as it wasn't FIS sanctioned. So the man raced. January 7 and 14. He won both races. Great that he won and trying to stay in form...but...under FIS rules, a temporarily banned athlete cannot take part in any national races that are run by the national federation, and since virtually all national federations are FIS representatives and have to abide by FIS rules, on not just anti-doping, but anything FIS related, the Udmurtia races, although not on the FIS calendar, are on the FLGR calendar, therefore the rules still seem to apply.

While I understand Vylegzhanin's frustration in not being allowed to start the TDS, and also wanting to have races to prepare for the World's in Lahti, and I respect the fact that he didn't just blindly go and take part in the Udmurtia races, I have to first of all question Vaelbe and Vedenin's complete ignorance on the FIS rules. Why risk this? Why not let Vylegzhanin know that 'wait it out, even if you have to wait another month-you'll know before World's, don't take part in these races, find other local races that aren't sanctioned, a marathon perhaps, and/or find a few training mates that are not on the national team...' There are plenty of fast Russians that are currently not on the National team and are not sponsored by the National team. Go and train with them, you might not gain much by not racing in Udmurtia, but you certainly won't lose it all. Considering the situation he is in, whether or not he believes he is clean or dirty, he should have waited. You can't hurt yourself by waiting. Instead of losing two weeks, he may lose two years because of this. This is very unprofessional. It will only add to the anti-Russian hysteria. I feel sorry for these athletes. Their so-called 'leaders' seem to be completely useless. If you are not sure of the wording in the FIS documents on this, check with someone else that is or understands English a little bit better than you. It really isn't that difficult.

Here is the link:

http://www.skisport.ru/news/cross-country/84602/


There are others out there, but pretty much have the same spiel in them.
 
Jan 3, 2016
300
0
0
Kikkan Randall, athletes represantative to FIS, started a petition (see this article https://www.nrk.no/sport/derfor-har-ikke-sundby-skrevet-under-dopingoppropet-1.13332647 ) which has been signed by, so far, about a hundred XC skiers, among them ten Norwegians. Not every Norwegian skier has has yet signed though, the name in the link above probably gives it away ;) saying they will look at it again in the spring.

The four points in the petition are:
- A stronger and more independent WADA
-Stronger leadership from FIS, IOC and WADA in the fight for doping free sport
-Quicker and stricter punishments for those that don't follow the WADA code
- to not deliberately breach the WADA code
 
Re:

Blaaswix said:
Kikkan Randall, athletes represantative to FIS, started a petition (see this article https://www.nrk.no/sport/derfor-har-ikke-sundby-skrevet-under-dopingoppropet-1.13332647 ) which has been signed by, so far, about a hundred XC skiers, among them ten Norwegians. Not every Norwegian skier has has yet signed though, the name in the link above probably gives it away ;) saying they will look at it again in the spring.

The four points in the petition are:
- A stronger and more independent WADA
-Stronger leadership from FIS, IOC and WADA in the fight for doping free sport
-Quicker and stricter punishments for those that don't follow the WADA code
- to not deliberately breach the WADA code

Not to undermine Kikkan's efforts, but there are quite a few hypocrites that probably signed that petition. A great example is Manificat. Another skier that doesn't have asthma, yet takes asthma medication.
 
Re:

Blaaswix said:
Kikkan Randall, athletes represantative to FIS, started a petition (see this article https://www.nrk.no/sport/derfor-har-ikke-sundby-skrevet-under-dopingoppropet-1.13332647 ) which has been signed by, so far, about a hundred XC skiers, among them ten Norwegians. Not every Norwegian skier has has yet signed though, the name in the link above probably gives it away ;) saying they will look at it again in the spring.

The four points in the petition are:
- A stronger and more independent WADA
-Stronger leadership from FIS, IOC and WADA in the fight for doping free sport
-Quicker and stricter punishments for those that don't follow the WADA code
- to not deliberately breach the WADA code
Good initiativel. Randall in a few days got more than 100 skiers to sign the petition. However not Johnsrud Sundby who has a number of excuses to not sign. In the article he says that:
He is lazy by nature.
He can't automatically sign anything without fully understanding what it means.
This is the kind of thing I can't spend a lot of time on in mid-season.


Finally, Johnsrud Sundby claims that after he talked with Randall before christmas he persuaded several team mates to sign the petition. But he doesn't have time himself to sign during the season of competitions. :D

The Armstrong Fan boy has spoken.
 
Re:

Blaaswix said:
Kikkan Randall, athletes represantative to FIS, started a petition (see this article https://www.nrk.no/sport/derfor-har-ikke-sundby-skrevet-under-dopingoppropet-1.13332647 ) which has been signed by, so far, about a hundred XC skiers, among them ten Norwegians. Not every Norwegian skier has has yet signed though, the name in the link above probably gives it away ;) saying they will look at it again in the spring.

The four points in the petition are:
- A stronger and more independent WADA
-Stronger leadership from FIS, IOC and WADA in the fight for doping free sport
-Quicker and stricter punishments for those that don't follow the WADA code
- to not deliberately breach the WADA code
To dissect the four points.

1. Not sure if WADA was ever 'independent.' Just like many international organizations like it, WADA functions as those that sponsor it most do. In this case, it's the US and Canadian authorities. Notice how nothing was done when the TUE leaks came. In fact, people like Travis Tygart, Olivier Niggli and Craig Reedie were all up in arms over it.

2. FIS has a lot of Norwegian representation in it. Nothing will be done. Just like the 'independent investigation' on the use of Asthma meds: made up solely of Scandinavians. IOC is like WADA, those Olympic federations that have the most money and lobbyists will have their way.

3. Quicker and stricter punishments that break the WADA code? Like Sundby? FIS waited 18 months to give Sundby a two month Summer 'ban.' Or Johaug? Clearly took steroids for 11 straight days, was caught, and no decision yet after what...four months?

4. Breaching the WADA code? What does that mean? Does it mean that those that don't have asthma but are taking asthma medication(s) to improve their performances should walk free or be suspended accordingly? I haven't heard much complaining from Randall on this issue. Does anyone still have the link to the VG interview of Norwegian skiers about asthma med use? And what about the wax trailer and the 'special room' that they have to use the nebulizers before, during and after races? Pettersen talked about this in detail. Where was Kikkan Randall when that broke out? Or the fact that the juniors were using the same methods last year at World Juniors and U23's in Romania.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
danielovichdk2 The Clinic 3

ASK THE COMMUNITY