Doping in XC skiing

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Did anyone catch what Travis Tygart had to say about the FIS vs Johaug case?

https://www.nrk.no/sport/amerikansk-antidopingsjef-meget-kritisk-til-johaug-anken-1.13549454

Goodness me, what's going on with Tygart these days?? I thought he was one of the 'good guys' a few years ago. He is saying that FIS wanting to increase Johaug's suspension is either 'political or they have a personal vendetta against her.' I don't know if Travis remembers all those times that Armstrong and his team of lawyers used that very same language 'politically motivated' and this one in particular 'personal vendetta against Lance...."

Also saying that what Johaug took isn't performance enhancing. I guess they should take out those anabolic steroids off the WADA banned list and make them available to everyone, right? Why did that Italian cyclist and the US baseball player get banned for the same offense?
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Re: Re:

Pazuzu said:
python said:
if you are looking for a dude-like dudette in the norwegian team look no furthe than the post above by pazuzu :)
Bjoergen's neck is as thick as her head. Rather like American football players in the 70s and 80s unregulated steroid era. :confused:



contrast that with US XC standout Jessica Diggins:

To be fair, you've choosed non-representative pics, at least that of Marit. There are many pics on internet where her neck looks much thinner. When one kinda retracts his head the way Marit does, everybody will look thick - necked, bar extremes. Marit has quite normal neck for woman.
 
Feb 18, 2011
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BullsFan22 said:
Goodness me, what's going on with Tygart these days?? I thought he was one of the 'good guys' a few years ago.
You see, Tygart is about anti-doping. Catching the bad guys. You know, Armstrong. Those who try to cheat and gain an unfair advantage over the competitors. And having rules that do exactly that, and not get some poor sloppy soul get caught up in a Kafka-process.

I fully understand that is a concept that's beyond you. You should take some interest in anti-doping.
 
Knutsen said:
BullsFan22 said:
Goodness me, what's going on with Tygart these days?? I thought he was one of the 'good guys' a few years ago.
You see, Tygart is about anti-doping. Catching the bad guys. You know, Armstrong. Those who try to cheat and gain an unfair advantage over the competitors. And having rules that do exactly that, and not get some poor sloppy soul get caught up in a Kafka-process.

I fully understand that is a concept that's beyond you. You should take some interest in anti-doping.

Don't know if serious.
 
Jan 3, 2016
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BullsFan22 said:
Did anyone catch what Travis Tygart had to say about the FIS vs Johaug case?

https://www.nrk.no/sport/amerikansk-antidopingsjef-meget-kritisk-til-johaug-anken-1.13549454

Goodness me, what's going on with Tygart these days?? I thought he was one of the 'good guys' a few years ago. He is saying that FIS wanting to increase Johaug's suspension is either 'political or they have a personal vendetta against her.' I don't know if Travis remembers all those times that Armstrong and his team of lawyers used that very same language 'politically motivated' and this one in particular 'personal vendetta against Lance...."

Also saying that what Johaug took isn't performance enhancing. I guess they should take out those anabolic steroids off the WADA banned list and make them available to everyone, right? Why did that Italian cyclist and the US baseball player get banned for the same offense?
You'll never guess who supports Tygart's view. One of 'em's pictured on this page, and the other one got busted for overuse of asthma meds. :rolleyes:
http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/bjorgen-og-sundby-reagerer-pa-fis-behandling-av-johaug--tror-de-er-redde-for-brak/67673904
 
BullsFan22 said:
Knutsen said:
BullsFan22 said:
Goodness me, what's going on with Tygart these days?? I thought he was one of the 'good guys' a few years ago.
You see, Tygart is about anti-doping. Catching the bad guys. You know, Armstrong. Those who try to cheat and gain an unfair advantage over the competitors. And having rules that do exactly that, and not get some poor sloppy soul get caught up in a Kafka-process.

I fully understand that is a concept that's beyond you. You should take some interest in anti-doping.

Don't know if serious.
Looks serious to me. Tygart doesn't believe Johaug attempted, or got any benefit from the substance she took. Doping is about taking drugs that are prohibited to gain an advantage. Hence it requires, intent, and to some extent advantage for it to be doping.
 
ToreBear said:
BullsFan22 said:
Knutsen said:
BullsFan22 said:
Goodness me, what's going on with Tygart these days?? I thought he was one of the 'good guys' a few years ago.
You see, Tygart is about anti-doping. Catching the bad guys. You know, Armstrong. Those who try to cheat and gain an unfair advantage over the competitors. And having rules that do exactly that, and not get some poor sloppy soul get caught up in a Kafka-process.

I fully understand that is a concept that's beyond you. You should take some interest in anti-doping.

Don't know if serious.
Looks serious to me. Tygart doesn't believe Johaug attempted, or got any benefit from the substance she took. Doping is about taking drugs that are prohibited to gain an advantage. Hence it requires, intent, and to some extent advantage for it to be doping.
The substance she took IS PROHIBITED. Just because she took the substance outside of competition, doesn't mean she didn't take it to gain something from it. If this was meant to go on her lips, how did it get into her system? And both she, the main doctor (Bendiksen), the coaches/team doctors at hand in Livigno really are idiots to let this happen. This is an ANABOLIC STEROID. A powerful enhancer. NFL and MLB players have used stuff like this for ages, clearly used for enhancing their performances. Either all the doctors, coaches and Johaug herself handled the events last September as complete idiots, or they knew what they were doing, she got caught, and they've tried to save face for the past 8 or 9 months. Pick one.
 
BullsFan22 said:
ToreBear said:
BullsFan22 said:
Knutsen said:
BullsFan22 said:
Goodness me, what's going on with Tygart these days?? I thought he was one of the 'good guys' a few years ago.
You see, Tygart is about anti-doping. Catching the bad guys. You know, Armstrong. Those who try to cheat and gain an unfair advantage over the competitors. And having rules that do exactly that, and not get some poor sloppy soul get caught up in a Kafka-process.

I fully understand that is a concept that's beyond you. You should take some interest in anti-doping.

Don't know if serious.
Looks serious to me. Tygart doesn't believe Johaug attempted, or got any benefit from the substance she took. Doping is about taking drugs that are prohibited to gain an advantage. Hence it requires, intent, and to some extent advantage for it to be doping.
The substance she took IS PROHIBITED. Just because she took the substance outside of competition, doesn't mean she didn't take it to gain something from it. If this was meant to go on her lips, how did it get into her system? And both she, the main doctor (Bendiksen), the coaches/team doctors at hand in Livigno really are idiots to let this happen. This is an ANABOLIC STEROID. A powerful enhancer. NFL and MLB players have used stuff like this for ages, clearly used for enhancing their performances. Either all the doctors, coaches and Johaug herself handled the events last September as complete idiots, or they knew what they were doing, she got caught, and they've tried to save face for the past 8 or 9 months. Pick one.
Correct it is prohibited, outside or inside competition doesn't matter. The only difference if it was inside competition her results would be annulled. Some medications absorb through the skin. Have you ever heard of nicotine patches? They are absorbed through the skin.

Bendiksen(the only doctor involved) was negligent in not actually checking if there was a prohibited substance in the cream. Instead he was too focused on finding the antibacterial substance he was looking for. Additionally he failed to rethink or recheck if the cream was within the rules when she asked if they were allowed upon receiving the cream. Coaches had nothing to do with this since this was a medical matter.

An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect. Her biopassport showed no difference in her steroid profile, and the story was corroborated by a former police inspector working for Anti Doping Norway who went to the area to investigate.

The idiot mistake was by the Doctor who didn't do his job, and the medical apparatus of the national team which didn't have any routines to prevent one human error to have such an effect. It's all in the Antidoping judgement,
which I suspect Tygart has read: https://www.idrettsforbundet.no/tema/juss/informasjon-om-therese-johaug-saken/
 
Blaaswix said:
BullsFan22 said:
Did anyone catch what Travis Tygart had to say about the FIS vs Johaug case?

https://www.nrk.no/sport/amerikansk-antidopingsjef-meget-kritisk-til-johaug-anken-1.13549454

Goodness me, what's going on with Tygart these days?? I thought he was one of the 'good guys' a few years ago. He is saying that FIS wanting to increase Johaug's suspension is either 'political or they have a personal vendetta against her.' I don't know if Travis remembers all those times that Armstrong and his team of lawyers used that very same language 'politically motivated' and this one in particular 'personal vendetta against Lance...."

Also saying that what Johaug took isn't performance enhancing. I guess they should take out those anabolic steroids off the WADA banned list and make them available to everyone, right? Why did that Italian cyclist and the US baseball player get banned for the same offense?
You'll never guess who supports Tygart's view. One of 'em's pictured on this page, and the other one got busted for overuse of asthma meds. :rolleyes:
http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/bjorgen-og-sundby-reagerer-pa-fis-behandling-av-johaug--tror-de-er-redde-for-brak/67673904
That's not a surprise, to be honest.
 
Jan 3, 2016
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An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect. Her biopassport showed no difference in her steroid profile, and the story was corroborated by a former police inspector working for Anti Doping Norway who went to the area to investigate.
An athlete's 'steroid profile' should show *no* anabolic steroids. None. The rules say if you want to race you can't have any anabolic steroids in your system. They don't say, 'it's okay to have a little bit', they say none. Small doses over a long time can also have an effect, as could a larger dose taken a long time before an unexpectedly sensitive test took place. That's why the rules say the permitted level is *zero*.
 
Blaaswix said:
An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect. Her biopassport showed no difference in her steroid profile, and the story was corroborated by a former police inspector working for Anti Doping Norway who went to the area to investigate.
An athlete's 'steroid profile' should show *no* anabolic steroids. None. The rules say if you want to race you can't have any anabolic steroids in your system. They don't say, 'it's okay to have a little bit', they say none. Small doses over a long time can also have an effect, as could a larger dose taken a long time before an unexpectedly sensitive test took place. That's why the rules say the permitted level is *zero*.
Don't think the profile responds to anabolic steroids, since it's an indirect measure. And for your information, you can have anabolic steroids in your system without having broken any rules.
 
Re:

meat puppet said:
Whichever way this is spun, either Johaug and the Norwegian ski fed are blatant cheats or there was a happy chain of coincidences producing the most improbable outcome. I wonder which one it is.
I don't see any happy chain of coincidences here. I see a doctor with responsibility to prevent athletes taking the wrong medication and failing to do so. For there to be a chain, there should have been someone else, lets say a doctor in Norway that the doctor calls to double check and he also failed to notice the problem. Not having such a step is on the skiing federation, since it should be well known that humans make mistakes.

And I certainly don't see any cheating. Neither does it appear ADN,FIS,WADA or the IOC do either. Since only FIS appealed, and they are not arguing there was any intent to cheat at all.
 
ToreBear said:
Blaaswix said:
An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect. Her biopassport showed no difference in her steroid profile, and the story was corroborated by a former police inspector working for Anti Doping Norway who went to the area to investigate.
An athlete's 'steroid profile' should show *no* anabolic steroids. None. The rules say if you want to race you can't have any anabolic steroids in your system. They don't say, 'it's okay to have a little bit', they say none. Small doses over a long time can also have an effect, as could a larger dose taken a long time before an unexpectedly sensitive test took place. That's why the rules say the permitted level is *zero*.
Don't think the profile responds to anabolic steroids, since it's an indirect measure. And for your information, you can have anabolic steroids in your system without having broken any rules.
The profile includes some anabolic steroids.
 
Re: Re:

ToreBear said:
meat puppet said:
Whichever way this is spun, either Johaug and the Norwegian ski fed are blatant cheats or there was a happy chain of coincidences producing the most improbable outcome. I wonder which one it is.
I don't see any happy chain of coincidences here. I see a doctor with responsibility to prevent athletes taking the wrong medication and failing to do so. For there to be a chain, there should have been someone else, lets say a doctor in Norway that the doctor calls to double check and he also failed to notice the problem. Not having such a step is on the skiing federation, since it should be well known that humans make mistakes.

And I certainly don't see any cheating. Neither does it appear ADN,FIS,WADA or the IOC do either. Since only FIS appealed, and they are not arguing there was any intent to cheat at all.
You do fail to mention though the strickt liability of the athlete to be responsible of what goes to his/her system which is a written rule of WADA. In all fairness Johaug failed her liability regardless of the acts of any stupid doctor. Let's see if CAS agrees.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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tyrart has seized being a 'good guy' the moment i kicked him out of my avatar choices and thereafter banned him for life from occupying the honour spot he once enjoyed :D

and i am only half-joking...

along with some wonderful antidoping work, he had been increasingly known for personalizing his 'zero' tolerance' including defaulting into some political aggressive rhetoric a person in his position should be very careful with...
 
Re:

python said:
tyrart has seized being a 'good guy' the moment i kicked him out of my avatar choices and thereafter banned him for life from occupying the honour spot he once enjoyed :D

and i am only half-joking...

along with some wonderful antidoping work, he had been increasingly known for personalizing his 'zero' tolerance' including defaulting into some political aggressive rhetoric a person in his position should be very careful with...

This. You hit the nail on the head. Tygart got a lot of praise for his involvement in the Lance Armstrong investigation. However, that case was only presented to him (or he took it upon himself with the backing of USADA), only when it became a federal (aka, financial) issue. Plus, nobody did anything until guys like Hamilton and Landis spoke out. I am sure many that spoke out (whether directly, indirectly, privately, publicly, a little bit, a lot, whatever....) had their reasons, and maybe I am wrong in saying this, but they had/have their own agendas, Tygart included. I think the politics that Tygart is trying to involve himself in...or...with, is petty and counter productive to actual anti-doping work. With the language that he is coming up with to describe the Johaug case, in particular comparing it to the case of the Russians, is not helping anyone apart those like Hajo Seppelt, *** Pound and like. But I guess as long as there is money to be had, stuff like this will always be spat out. Plus in this day and age of politics and certain amount of Russophobia, it's no surprise.

My guess is that Johaug will be let off the hook and she'll return when the original ban expires. No way is a high profile Norwegian XC skier going to miss an Olympic games because of a doping infraction.
 
Jan 3, 2016
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Here's another recent Norwegian doping case http://www.vg.no/sport/vektloefting/dopingtatte-ruth-kasirye-doemt-til-to-aars-utestengelse/a/24070810/

Summary:
Norwegian weightlifter travels to Africa where she contracts malaria. She gets hospital treatment which includes meldonium. The athlete says the last day she took it was 1.1.16, the day it was added to WADAs banned list. Her doctor confirms this. Anti doping Norway thinks she took it for longer, up to 18.1.16 They also believe that she did not take it to gain a competitive advantage but she should have checked what was in her medicine.

Decision: two year suspension.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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ToreBear said:
An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect.
Not even you belive this. Of course steroids enhance performance in ANY amount. You've made me really laugh. Amount of lying you do to defend your Norwegian fellas is ridiculous :)

The idiot mistake was by the Doctor who didn't do his job, and the medical apparatus of the national team which didn't have any routines to prevent one human error to have such an effect. It's all in the Antidoping judgement,
which I suspect Tygart has read: https://www.idrettsforbundet.no/tema/juss/informasjon-om-therese-johaug-saken/
The mistake was both doctor and Johaug. She is responsible for what she takes, isn't she?
 
Blaaswix said:
Here's another recent Norwegian doping case http://www.vg.no/sport/vektloefting/dopingtatte-ruth-kasirye-doemt-til-to-aars-utestengelse/a/24070810/

Summary:
Norwegian weightlifter travels to Africa where she contracts malaria. She gets hospital treatment which includes meldonium. The athlete says the last day she took it was 1.1.16, the day it was added to WADAs banned list. Her doctor confirms this. Anti doping Norway thinks she took it for longer, up to 18.1.16 They also believe that she did not take it to gain a competitive advantage but she should have checked what was in her medicine.

Decision: two year suspension.
For an outsider it seems that ADNO willingly accepted all the anomalities from the doctor and athlete in the Johaug case, but expressed mistrust to the explanations by the athlete and doctor in the weightlifter case.

Looking on the pictures makes you wonder............No, it has nothing to do with race. Remember, it's the best democracy in the world.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/norway-world-s-best-democracy-we-asked-its-people-why-n720151
 
Kokoso said:
ToreBear said:
An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect.
Not even you belive this. Of course steroids enhance performance in ANY amount. You've made me really laugh. Amount of lying you do to defend your Norwegian fellas is ridiculous :)

The idiot mistake was by the Doctor who didn't do his job, and the medical apparatus of the national team which didn't have any routines to prevent one human error to have such an effect. It's all in the Antidoping judgement,
which I suspect Tygart has read: https://www.idrettsforbundet.no/tema/juss/informasjon-om-therese-johaug-saken/
The mistake was both doctor and Johaug. She is responsible for what she takes, isn't she?
Stop being pedantic, and stop accusing people of lying. It makes you seem like a child.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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ToreBear said:
Kokoso said:
ToreBear said:
An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect.
Not even you belive this. Of course steroids enhance performance in ANY amount. You've made me really laugh. Amount of lying you do to defend your Norwegian fellas is ridiculous :)

The idiot mistake was by the Doctor who didn't do his job, and the medical apparatus of the national team which didn't have any routines to prevent one human error to have such an effect. It's all in the Antidoping judgement,
which I suspect Tygart has read: https://www.idrettsforbundet.no/tema/juss/informasjon-om-therese-johaug-saken/
The mistake was both doctor and Johaug. She is responsible for what she takes, isn't she?
Stop being pedantic, and stop accusing people of lying. It makes you seem like a child.
Lol you've just confirmed my words, do you realize that? :D funny
 
Aug 17, 2016
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Kokoso said:
ToreBear said:
An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect.
Not even you belive this. Of course steroids enhance performance in ANY amount. You've made me really laugh. Amount of lying you do to defend your Norwegian fellas is ridiculous :)

The idiot mistake was by the Doctor who didn't do his job, and the medical apparatus of the national team which didn't have any routines to prevent one human error to have such an effect. It's all in the Antidoping judgement,
which I suspect Tygart has read: https://www.idrettsforbundet.no/tema/juss/informasjon-om-therese-johaug-saken/
The mistake was both doctor and Johaug. She is responsible for what she takes, isn't she?

Bizarre! I was given steroid cream by my doctor for some contact- eczema caused by my skin reacting to wearing gloves all the time.

According to you and the other cultists,had I been any sort of professional athlete, I would have failed a drugs test and should be banned therefore losing my livelihood because there are no levels of steroids which don't enhance performance.

Also the idea of strict liability as enforced by WADA is in complete conflict with any idea of Human Rights or the normal concept of Natural Justice. Try justifying Alain Baxter losing his medal for using a standard Vicks nasal inhaler. Just go on and try. You can't. It is absolutely impossible to justify that punishment.

Especially when the same gang think that it's perfectly fair to allow men to run against women.
 
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