Doping raid Operación Galgo: Fuentes Caught...again

[hrotha]

Hmm, aren't you guys being needlessly melodramatic? Alberto León didn't kill himself because he doped, and it wasn't the doping system that led him to killing himself. He wasn't a sportsman anymore, he was allegedly part of a drug dealing criminal ring. He got caught, his wife asked for a divorce, he couldn't take the pressure. It's a shame, but it's not the fault of dopers, or of anti-dopers, or of anyone else.

 

[thehog]

Hmm, aren't you guys being needlessly melodramatic? Alberto León didn't kill himself because he doped, and it wasn't the doping system that led him to killing himself. He wasn't a sportsman anymore, he was allegedly part of a drug dealing criminal ring. He got caught, his wife asked for a divorce, he couldn't take the pressure. It's a shame, but it's not the fault of dopers, or of anti-dopers, or of anyone else.

Its a little more than that. He would have been under great pressure this time around to name names. He couldn't face it. Spain would have hated him for what he had to tell.

Thats why Landis has amazing strength to be doing what he's doing.

 

[hrotha]

Its a little more than that. He would have been under great pressure this time around to name names. He couldn't face it. Spain would have hated him for what he had to tell.

Thats why Landis has amazing strength to be doing what he's doing.

And you know this because he called you before doing the deed? What the hell do you know about his personal life? Just yesterday everybody was saying Fuentes (and by extension, logically, León) was untouchable and that the whole thing would come to nothing, now León faced so much pressure to talk and reveal everything he had to kill himself? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

 

[Roland Rat]

Hmm, aren't you guys being needlessly melodramatic? Alberto León didn't kill himself because he doped, and it wasn't the doping system that led him to killing himself. He wasn't a sportsman anymore, he was allegedly part of a drug dealing criminal ring. He got caught, his wife asked for a divorce, he couldn't take the pressure. It's a shame, but it's not the fault of dopers, or of anti-dopers, or of anyone else.

He used illegal drugs. He got involved in dealing illegal drugs. He got caught. His wife left him. He killed himself (apparently...).

Yep, can't see any chain of causation there.

 

[ansimi]

Terribly sad. Medically supervised doping is probably pretty safe health-wise but it pushes people into deception, shame, self-hatred and destroys lives and families.

 

[hrotha]

He used illegal drugs. He got involved in dealing illegal drugs. He got caught. His wife left him. He killed himself (apparently...).

Yep, can't see any chain of causation there.

Of course there's a causation here, but it's not like many people are saying. "Doping kills". Yeah, that isn't melodramatic at all applied to this case. In other forum I sometimes visit some people are going as far as claiming the anti-doping crusade killed León. Nope, not melodramatic.

 

[Roland Rat]

Of course there's a causation here, but it's not like many people are saying. "Doping kills". Yeah, that isn't melodramatic at all applied to this case.

Yes, it is. But then sometimes it needs to be to try to cut through some of the "doping doesn't harm anyone, let them dope if they want to" *** that is spread. The fact is doping can harm people physically and mentally, it hurts those around them, and it's likely that the drugs being supplied are part of a larger organised crime syndicate. Sometimes people need to be melodramatic to force a point across.

In other forum I sometimes visit some people are going as far as claiming the anti-doping crusade killed León. Nope, not melodramatic.

That's just absurd. I'm sick of people basically saying cheats and criminals should be left alone for one reason or another.

 

[Cloxxki]

We have to worry for the souls of those who felt a sense of relief when they heard the news of Leon's death. That at least one and the most likely subject to tell on their doping practices, will not harm their little doping paradise life and reputation.

I wouldn't be surrpised if he knew a few things too many about the Soccer and Tennis side of national sports. Those parties could really apply pressure, the money is so big there, that big men in black suits and sunglasses would not be out of the question. I would go totally mad in that situation. And if then the one support you were building on suspends faith in you... He had it all coming if guilty, but you can't help but feel for him with the mess he'd gotten himself into.

That's why people, athletes or otherwise, will always need to face consequences of their actions before they actually DO. If you are OK with any of the imaginable consequences of what you're about to do, you won't have such a hard time when the sh!t hits the fan.

I hope whatever he takes to the grave, will be uncovered via others.
The athletes still denying falsely...not sure what to wish for them, especially after a life was lost...

 

[joe_papp]

Terribly sad. Medically supervised doping is probably pretty safe health-wise but it pushes people into deception, shame, self-hatred and destroys lives and families.

+1

I can certainly understand, based on the alleged circumstances, the hopelessness he would have felt and how it led him to make another, but final, tragic decision.

 

[Benotti69]

Fuentes, shocked by the death of Leon....


http://translate.googleusercontent....&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhhM3dnyicYTi6Jf4ux7Cfoj__uLTg

.......probably because he was gonna stitch him up...

 

[The Hitch]

Alberto León, siempre con nosotros.

 

[Berzin]

Medically supervised doping is probably pretty safe health-wise but...

-1.

Stop right there. Doping programs supervised by who, exactly?

A gynecologist? Most of these doctors who "supervise" doping programs for various teams are nothing but unethical quacks and frauds with medical degrees.

And they are a bigger part of the problem than the riders who take dope. Any doctor that says he dopes riders because he's looking after their health should have his license to practice medicine revoked.

Products like HgH, EPO, testosterone and blood transfusions are unsafe for use outside of their intended medical purpose. A doctor messing with the endocrine system of an otherwise healthy but physically overtaxed rider is doing harm to a rider's system.

There are also the psychological scars, of which we know nothing because most of these cats suffer in silence after their careers are over and the only time we hear of any of them having severe psychological issues is when they spectacularly die at an early age.

The only thing that stops more riders from dropping dead from all the crap they've taken is they probably have a high threshold for the stuff. This doesn't mean they won't have problems further down the road. We just don't know because there have never been any long-term tests done.

 

[joe_papp]

-1.

...
Products like HgH, EPO, testosterone and blood transfusions are unsafe for use outside of their intended medical purpose. A doctor messing with the endocrine system of an otherwise healthy but physically overtaxed rider is doing harm to a rider's system.

+1. I wish I'd never been introduced to the D.O. in Pennsylvania who started me on EPO because I was "anemic." Then there was the secondary adrenal suppression from too much cortisone. Then thanks to the Cali quack, the over-excited libido from Androgel that left me, as **** Pound (lol ) observed, feeling like "...violating every virgin within 100 miles. [How does he even get on his bicycle?]"

There are also the psychological scars, of which we know nothing because most of these cats suffer in silence after their careers are over and the only time we hear of any of them having severe psychological issues is when they spectacularly die at an early age...

Yeah, trust me, they're bad! Speaking from both personal experience and direct observation of former colleagues.

This many years out, I can say that doping left me with no net positive and absolutely is not a path I would ever repeat if given the opportunity.

I can't say that I'd feel the same strong convictions if it'd earned me tens of millions of dollars, as money can buy what at least approximates happiness, but then there's Pantani and VDB as examples of guys who raked-in megabucks but still had major issues.

Anyway, yeah, the medically-supervised doping fantasy is as much of a nightmare as autonomous doping. You might not have the acute physical side-effects that are more common when preparing w/o medical support, but you're still living the lie and collecting all of the baggage that goes along with it.

 

[Cloxxki]

An update today on a Dutch Athletics website:
http://losseveter.dnsalias.net/blog...-adrienne-herzog-vergelijken-met-bloedzakken/

Spanish investigative judge Mercedes Pérez Barrios has ordered to collect blood samples of connected athletes, to find the origins of found blood bags.
4 bags were thusfar tested. 2 were from males, 2 from a female.
Alemayehu Bezabeh, 2009 European Cross Country running Champion, is said to have been confirmed for one of the male blood bags.
As Adrienne Herzog was implicated by her coach Pascua to have been a customer (blood withdraw having been made, recharge not executed) of blood doping facilitator Alberto Léon (who since committed suicide), Herzog's blood sample will be sought for.
Inserted comment: Supposedly the police also hold recording of phone conversations between Pascua and Herzog, discussing EPO and blood doping. Pascua identified her codename as AA50, and a doping schedule for this code was found, matching the expected peak dates for a 5000m runner like her.
The Dutch Anti-doping Authority expect such a request for blood samples from Spain will go through the Ministry of Justice.

Herzog doesn't respond to journalists anymore, and refers them all to her lawyer, Ad Manders. This man has been quite a controversy himself as cousel, and has handled some most intriguing cases the past years. A most psculiar case for an athlete seeking to clear her name of all blame.

Me, I expect Manders to only play the denial game, and put the justice system on a LOT of work. He'll do everything not to clear Herzog's name of all doubts, but to find a flaw in the followed procedures to get her off the hook.

When LosseVeter contacted Ad Manders, the conversation quickly turned into a rude shouting rant from the counsel, denying knowledge of documents LosseVeter got ahold of in Spain. "I will soon as possibly demand control over all your possessions. I am going to take you down. I'm going to wreck you and chase you the rest of your lives".

Herzog herself is currently stuck in The Netherlands, after encountering problems obtaining a USA visa. After Operacion Galgo his the news, she was soon training in the USA. She hopes to return there within the next few weeks.
Dutch unions have not found ground to hold Herzog's allowance, despite limited co-operation with the investigation, whereas the implicated Spanish Athletes were cut off.

Me, I am surprised Spain would not have blood samples in her own possession, as the athlete in queston has been training there since 2009, openly under supervision of a coach now found to have been under investigation. Does Spain not take blood samples of professional athletes? that's a retorical question.

 

[Cloxxki]

The nice judge rules phone taps as inadmissible. Evidence found using the taps as a lead, likewise of course.
So despite his admissions as to having doped and helped dope his athletes, Pascua is a free man, and free to go train them again.

http://www.as.com/mas-deporte/artic...ria-quedar-invalidada/20120322dasdasmas_5/Tes

Who can believe the disconnect between sports unions, police and magistrates in that country? What does one have to do to get convicted in any way relating to doping?

 

[Bavarianrider]

Southern Europe, what do you guys ecpect?

 

[hrotha]

The nice judge rules phone taps as inadmissible. Evidence found using the taps as a lead, likewise of course.
So despite his admissions as to having doped and helped dope his athletes, Pascua is a free man, and free to go train them again.

http://www.as.com/mas-deporte/artic...ria-quedar-invalidada/20120322dasdasmas_5/Tes

Who can believe the disconnect between sports unions, police and magistrates in that country? What does one have to do to get convicted in any way relating to doping?

Easy. Not be related to one of the major political parties, and not be a big fish in general.

Fortunately, Puerto is still ongoing, so we're in for another hilarious sequel.

 

[Cloxxki]

Southern Europe, what do you guys ecpect?

Dutch sports authorities will be very thankful, their "prize athlete" Adrienne Herzog was very badly implicated by Pascua (and her own voice on the top recordings). Asking for EPO, getting blood doping. Visit to the now deceased Fuentes helper to draw blood. A bad with her code name on it to be investigated, it's all not pretty. She's training with the Dutch union coach now, which means avoiding NL territory much as possble (Spain to USA, of course) working towards London Olympics, of course.

 

[Caruut]

Southern Europe, what do you guys ecpect?

What exactly do you mean by that?

That they're more likely to be doping?

That the authorities are more likely to be covering it up?

The first is debatable, and in the case of the second, unless police deliberately used an illegal wire tap so as to damage their own investigation, I can't see how it's corrupt. Wire-tapping needs prior approval in lots of places.

 

[roundabout]

I am not really surprised that another police operation comes to nothing.

 

[Havetts]

I am not really surprised that another police operation comes to nothing.

Nothing else to say than this really.

 

[Paco_P]

Southern Europe, what do you guys ecpect?

Whose president recently resigned for taking bribes?

Ours get off scot free.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Southern Europe, what do you guys ecpect?

lol. funny.

 

[Walkman]

lol. funny.

It's funny, because it's true!

 

[Zam_Olyas]

It's funny, because it's true!

yea right.