Dr. Ashenden - a man of principle!

[GreasyMonkey]

Is Dr. Ashenden the ONLY player in this whole UCI/Armstrong/USPS saga that has principles, and prepared to stand up and say what needs to be said?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ashenden-quits-the-change-cycling-now-group

It seems that every other person with involvement is somehow tainted or compromised to the degree that they cannot claim to stand on their principles and integrity before the "Court of public opinion", a.k.a. THE CLINIC.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It would appear to me, albeit from a limited sample size, that Dr Ashenden operates under the principle of walking away when things do not suit him.

* Gov't told him to stop experimenting on AIS riders he was preparing for competition or leave - he left AIS.
* Lausanne says to sign an NDA to continue on the BP panel - he leaves BP panel.
* CCN meets with Armstrong - he leaves CCN.

Not saying this is good or bad - but it is consistent.

If you're looking for someone with principles, Travis Tygart seems to fit the bill.

 

[Benotti69]

Is he leaving because he was not informed of this attempt and felt he should've been or is he leaving because he disagrees with the attempt to contact Armstrong?

The idea, and I am guessing ,was whether they could get Armstrong to spill all he knew about UCI and therefore push forward with their change cycling now meaning rid the UCI of the enablers.

I would not have contacted Armstrong. A guy with psychopathic tendencies is not going to be a realiable ally.

But this is another blow to the cause.

 

[coinneach]

It would appear to me, albeit from a limited sample size, that Dr Ashenden operates under the principle of walking away when things do not suit him.

* Gov't told him to stop experimenting on AIS riders he was preparing for competition or leave - he left AIS.
* Lausanne says to sign an NDA to continue on the BP panel - he leaves BP panel.
* CCN meets with Armstrong - he leaves CCN.

Not saying this is good or bad - but it is consistent.

If you're looking for someone with principles, Travis Tygart seems to fit the bill.

I agree: of course its good to have principles, but cycling also needs people to work together to solve the mess.
Ashenden will forever be outside, questioning.
I'd also like to know more details about CCN's contact with Lance before I condem it...what type of contact was it?

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

I'd also like to know more details about CCN's contact with Lance before I condem it...what type of contact was it?

An offer to be locked in a room with Kimmage until only one of them remains alive, perhaps?

 

[LutherB]

I agree: of course its good to have principles, but cycling also needs people to work together to solve the mess.
Ashenden will forever be outside, questioning.
I'd also like to know more details about CCN's contact with Lance before I condem it...what type of contact was it?

Maybe it's how it has to be, on the outside questioning. Nothing seems to get done on the inside.

 

[Master50]

Ashenden is like a plumber that quits every job there is poop. When dealing with a mess I think that a little crap gets on things. He talks a good line but what good is a quitter to create a change? What value is integrity if all we get out of it is press announcements that he quit another committee or what ever he does. All he has really demonstrated is he won't work with anyone that isn't following him. He isn't earning any points by me.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Its a mistake to leave now. Bring Armstrong in and give him 20 minutes to deliver real stuff otherwise adjourn the meeting and ask him to leave again. Do it via recorded conf call if cost is an issue.

 

[JimmyFingers]

seems a rather knee-jerk reaction, and its a shame he has withdrawn himself because of it

 

[hrotha]

I'm inclined to agree this doesn't reflect too well on Ashenden.

 

[weeniebeenie]

Its a mistake to leave now. Bring Armstrong in and give him 20 minutes to deliver real stuff otherwise adjourn the meeting and ask him to leave again. Do it via recorded conf call if cost is an issue.

I agree. Given his level of involvement you have to speak to him, but it has to be on condition that he delivers.

 

[sashimono]

Is Dr. Ashenden the ONLY player in this whole UCI/Armstrong/USPS saga that has principles...

Huh? Ashenden is unemployed and he uses a very unexceptional scientific background to seek out publicity and push an agenda. If he has helped cycling, thats awesome, but I expect his celebrity reign will come to an embarassing end at some point.

He makes me cringe because there are so many better people in sports science without bias or agendas who work hard without seeking the limelight and publish their results in peer review journals instead of commercial cycling rags.

 

[python]

i will probably be in a minority group by saying that while i do agree that the decision to quit ccn seems indeed impulsive and at first glance not productive, deep down, i think i understand ashenden's motives as they seem consistent with his personality...i also doubt we know everything that lead an intelligent, thoughtful person like ashenden to take the drastic action.

i noted that those who commented so far passed over an important caveat ashenden gave, ' will not be associated with any group that seeks to meet with Lance Armstrong, with the obvious exception of USADA."

that's a reference to travis tygarts integrity who apparently agrees with ashenden.

so far, ashenden was ahead of everyone (except tt) in sniffing out the uci and armstrong duplicity, corruption and even their collusion when it suited them. he was also the first who saw through the uci manipulation of the independent commission terms of reference which was essentially, as tygart put it, blindfolding the process from get-go.

i suspect, ashenden does not want to see armstrong doing what the uci has constantly tried to do - set the terms and take control of the investigation into the cycling's dirty past.

if so, i agree with him 100%.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I agree with Python. And the list presented above, of Ashenden bailing from groups, all have one thing in common - their set-up, or demands, would detract from transparency and accountability.

The continuing legacy of Armstrong proves one thing - LA is a consistent liar and obfuscator, and it certainly hasn't stopped.

Why allow a legit organization to be smeared with the sh*t covered brush LA is still holding?

LA should only be concerned about talking to USADA, as we all should be, and anything else is going to be another Oprahesque goat show of half-truths that result in nothing substantial.

Ashenden obviously feels the same.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Is he leaving because he was not informed of this attempt and felt he should've been or is he leaving because he disagrees with the attempt to contact Armstrong?

These are two absolutely essential questions. If the guy wants to retain some credibility as an anti-doping advocate, he can't be associated with CCN after they contact Wonderboy.

I would not have contacted Armstrong. A guy with psychopathic tendencies is not going to be a realiable ally.

Someone contacting Wonderboy as representing CCN sets awful precedent regardless of any personal motives that might be attributed to Ashenden.

I have to wonder how the decision for a CCN representative contacting Wonderboy was made. That needs to be explained in detail.

JMBeushrimp said it more colorfully!

 

[DirtyWorks]

Huh? Ashenden is unemployed and he uses a very unexceptional scientific background to seek out publicity and push an agenda.

What in your opinion is the agenda?

He makes me cringe because there are so many better people in sports science without bias or agendas who work hard without seeking the limelight and publish their results in peer review journals instead of commercial cycling rags.

Maybe he's not interested in hiding out in academia? Maybe the bias in academia is publish or perish? In the U.S. it's probably closer to secure grants or perish. Academia has produced and published some truly awful propaganda disguised as science. Need I remind you of Ed Coyle's work?

 

[Carols]

So it wasn't a representative from CCN; it was a member acting on his own. Ashenden may have bolted a bit impulsively there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vayer-defends-reaching-out-to-lance-armstrong

 

[DirtyWorks]

So it wasn't a representative from CCN; it was a member acting on his own. Ashenden may have bolted a bit impulsively there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vayer-defends-reaching-out-to-lance-armstrong

Does Vayer have a thread already? That guy will bring problems to anti-doping anything because he's treating it like the "old men who make money in cycling club."

 

[Dazed and Confused]

So it wasn't a representative from CCN; it was a member acting on his own. Ashenden may have bolted a bit impulsively there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vayer-defends-reaching-out-to-lance-armstrong

Christ what a clown, this Vayer. Or perhaps Phat's inside man. Who knows.

 

[sniper]

Ashenden's decision seems rather premature to me, especially if this was just Vayer acting as an individual.

I'm not completely opposed to the idea of CCN contacting Lance. Lance seems ripe for bus-throw-undery (credits Dear Wiggo). Strike while the iron is still hot, Vayer may have thought.

And yes, the truth could eventually also set Lance free.
His recent interview with CN was like a wind of fresh air. For the first time I saw a glimpse of sincere repentance and self-reflection, even though it were just flashes. I briefly had a feeling that his sworn enemies (Floyd, Paul) must not necessarily remain his enemies till eternity. Of course, still a long way to go. But I'd be willing to welcome a truthful and repentant Lance back into society, provided he rats out Pathetic and Heinous.

 

[skippy]

My comment elsewhere :
Those of you reading " http://www.watercooler-skins.net " , will see that there is little likelihood that Jaimie , would talk to Lance and i doubt the things he has said there would encourage Lance to make the time available !
Vayer , has his own agenda and no doubt Mike Ashender , would not like to be splattered with the mud that he will send flying !

For the Moderator , this goes to other places , so not publishing , my comment , demonstrates DESCRIMINATION !

As you can see I Agree with others about " petit vayer , homme pouvoir ,homme , contraire " !

 

[Benotti69]

Ashenden's decision seems rather premature to me, especially if this was just Vayer acting as an individual.

I'm not completely opposed to the idea of CCN contacting Lance. Lance seems ripe for bus-throw-undery (credits Dear Wiggo). Strike while the iron is still hot, Vayer may have thought.

And yes, the truth could eventually also set Lance free.
His recent interview with CN was like a wind of fresh air. For the first time I saw a glimpse of sincere repentance and self-reflection, even though it were just flashes. I briefly had a feeling that his sworn enemies (Floyd, Paul) must not necessarily remain his enemies till eternity. Of course, still a long way to go. But I'd be willing to welcome a truthful and repentant Lance back into society, provided he rats out Pathetic and Heinous.

I dont think Armstrong will ever become truthful or repentant unless it suits his personal agenda and that is why he is to be avoided.

If Armstrong was truly repentant he would be talking to USADA. Until he does he is best ignored.

 

[sniper]

I dont think Armstrong will ever become truthful or repentant unless it suits his personal agenda and that is why he is to be avoided.

If Armstrong was truly repentant he would be talking to USADA. Until he does he is best ignored.

To be sure, the bold is absolutely right. (I'm not completely sure about the unbolded, but that could certainly also be correct)

But perhaps the legal ramifications of talking to USADA are too severe? Isn't there the perjury issue that could cost Lance dearly in the light of upcoming Federal investigations?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Ashenden is like a plumber that quits every job there is poop. When dealing with a mess I think that a little crap gets on things. He talks a good line but what good is a quitter to create a change? What value is integrity if all we get out of it is press announcements that he quit another committee or what ever he does. All he has really demonstrated is he won't work with anyone that isn't following him. He isn't earning any points by me.

Ashenden is the plumber, he has the ability to fix the problem. He was quite happy to flush the Armstrong turd. The turd didn't return because of faulty plumbing, it returns because the UCI has diarrhea.

Huh? Ashenden is unemployed and he uses a very unexceptional scientific background to seek out publicity and push an agenda. If he has helped cycling, thats awesome, but I expect his celebrity reign will come to an embarassing end at some point.

He makes me cringe because there are so many better people in sports science without bias or agendas who work hard without seeking the limelight and publish their results in peer review journals instead of commercial cycling rags.

Ashenden is not unemployed and has had plenty of his work published before you ever heard of him (hint; that's why he is a credible authority).

 

[DirtyWorks]

And yes, the truth could eventually also set Lance free.
His recent interview with CN was like a wind of fresh air. For the first time I saw a glimpse of sincere repentance and self-reflection, even though it were just flashes.

Credit goes to ChewbaccaD and Oldman for posting that it's a stimulus->response situation. Wonderboy is calculating what to tell to get the response he wants. The CN interview were prepared replies because the Doprah thing didn't work.

The guy won't change. If whatever he's working on now doesn't work, he "finds God" and evades some more.