Dr Ferrari -vs- Lemond

[Mach Schnell]

Re. Lemond: To paraphrase The Bard, "the lady doth protest too much methinks".

 

[Lajeretta4Ever]

What I find starling in his response is, " I never coached more than 20 professional cyclists at a time" .... "In recent years, less than half of that."

Ok, so do you think we really had a clean Tour this year?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Amazing that there are people out there who actually believe Ferrari was merely working as a coach and had nothing to do with doping.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Amazing that there are people out there who actually believe Ferrari was merely working as a coach and had nothing to do with doping.

Nobody believes that Alpe d'Huez. Nobody. The only point of all this is to sow misinformation and doubt about Ferrari's guilt and to slime Lemond. We've seen it over and over again. The Andreus were attacked, Lemond was attacked, Kimmage, etc., etc.

If you make as much money as Lance, you can hire a lot of muppets especially at the deal he must be getting for the ones who post here.

 

[B.Rasmussen]

Nobody believes that Alpe d'Huez. Nobody. The only point of all this is to sow misinformation and doubt about Ferrari's guilt and to slime Lemond. We've seen it over and over again. The Andreus were attacked, Lemond was attacked, Kimmage, etc., etc.

If you make as much money as Lance, you can hire a lot of muppets especially at the deal he must be getting for the ones who post here.

It's quite sad actually. I wonder what those who are paid to do it tell their friends and family what they do for a living. Do they tell the truth or do they (kind of) lie and say they work as a prostitute to at least be able to look them in the eye?

 

[Race Radio]

Lol. eh..no.



you should check your "Facts" before you post such things. Come to think of it, you have quite a history of wrong "facts" about Armstrong etc...on this board. A pattern, one might say, of being wrong.

If I had a long history of being wrong then please point out where.

So are you saying that Public Strategies did not prepare the public powerpoint presentation for the Trek-Lemond case? They did, they even admitted so in court. They then fought to hide what other work PS was doing for them, what do you think they are trying to hide?

Are you saying that the Trek Spokesman, Bill Mashek, who was the public face of the recent federal subpoenas

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...trong_sponsor_trek_in_cycling_drug_probe.html

Is not an employee of Public Strategies?
http://www.pstrategies.com/index.php/bios/consulting/william-mashek.htm

Are you saying that Mark MicKinnon, the guy who sits on the board of Livestrong and crafted the media strategy behind Armstrong's return is not the same guy who works at Public Strategies?
http://www.pstrategies.com/index.php/bios/senior-strategists/mark-mckinnon.htm

In the same building as Armstrong's CSE management firm?

It appears obvious who here is often wrong.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

If I had a long history of being wrong then please point out where.

So are you saying that Public Strategies did not prepare the public powerpoint presentation for the Trek-Lemond case? They did, they even admitted so in court. They then fought to hide what other work PS was doing for them, what do you think they are trying to hide?

Are you saying that the Trek Spokesman, Bill Mashek, who was the public face of the recent federal subpoenas

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...trong_sponsor_trek_in_cycling_drug_probe.html

Is not an employee of Public Strategies?
http://www.pstrategies.com/index.php/bios/consulting/william-mashek.htm

Are you saying that Mark MicKinnon, the guy who sits on the board of Livestrong and crafted the media strategy behind Armstrong's return is not the same guy who works at Public Strategies?
http://www.pstrategies.com/index.php/bios/senior-strategists/mark-mckinnon.htm

In the same building as Armstrong's CSE management firm?

It appears obvious who here is often wrong.

Blammo.

Eleven, anything?

 

[Benotti69]

Amazing that there are people out there who actually believe Ferrari was merely working as a coach and had nothing to do with doping.

they dont care they are part of the effort to smear LeMond on behalf of Pharmastrong.

I don't understand why CN would give Ferarri that kind of space, he's a disgraced doping doctor.

 

[Benotti69]

........
If you make as much money as Lance, you can hire a lot of muppets especially at the deal he must be getting for the ones who post here.

they get reject yellow bracelets, where the v did not come out on it...

on the laying of hands of course

 

[oldschoolnik]

Blammo.

Eleven, anything?

Wow pwned.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Turns out, that one doesn't go to eleven after all. Well done, Colm.

 

[scribe]

I'm a Lemond fan, of course. I have seen ZERO evidence that he ever doped. I saw the guy suffer like a dog for his 3 Tour wins and cheer Armstrong on until Lance's ties with Ferrari came to light.

You actually think a connected TdF champion hadn't a clue what was going on with Armstrong and cyclists in general before this Ferrari connection became news? Which was incidentally right about when it was clear Armstrong was favored to eclipse Lemond's number of titles.

 

[Kennf1]

You actually think a connected TdF champion hadn't a clue what was going on with Armstrong and cyclists in general before this Ferrari connection became news? Which was incidentally right about when it was clear Armstrong was favored to eclipse Lemond's number of titles.

He may have, but didn't say anything publicly until the Ferrari revelation.
I think that a lot of people believed cycling had cleaned up after the Festina bust. At least, until the next wave of scandals began to hit.
What does the timing of the Ferrari news have to do with anything? Are you really dragging out the jealous/bitter Lemond routine again?

 

[CitizenErased]

You actually think a connected TdF champion hadn't a clue what was going on with Armstrong and cyclists in general before this Ferrari connection became news? Which was incidentally right about when it was clear Armstrong was favored to eclipse Lemond's number of titles.

Hahaha, exactly!
Everybody in the professional cycling world knew of LA working with Ferrari, since 1995. It was no news when it came "public" in 2001.

 

[Anonymous]

Bravo...

"But what Greg does not know, or pretends not to know, is that one of such “confidants” actually clearly mentions his name and that of his doctor in relation to doping events."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/open-letter-from-dr-michele-ferrari

The fact that you do not see the irony in Dr Ferrari throwing doping allegations tells me all I ever needed to know about you and your PR game.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

If you make as much money as Lance, you can hire a lot of muppets....

Somewhere Jim Henson just rolled over in his grave.

 

[perico]

Interestingly, David Walsh quotes the "Donati Dossier" as fact in the book From Lance to Landis (Check page 48).

If I were a betting man, I would wager that LeMond is getting his facts from Walsh, who may have forgotten to tell LeMond that the dossier apparently mentions him and his trainer.

That's not to say that LeMond isn't right in his basic accusations, which I think he is... but that he needs to double check his sources before throwing hearsay out because it can come back to haunt you.

I don't think Ferrari is accusing LeMond of anything, just that if LeMond wants to use arguments made in this particular dossier, then he should study what exactly was said in it.

 

[Elagabalus]

Hahaha, exactly!
Everybody in the professional cycling world knew of LA working with Ferrari, since 1995. It was no news when it came "public" in 2001.

Now your footing is a little less solid. Only a few people knew Lance was working with Ferrari (Even his team was kept in the dark and Lance didn't even bother to mention it in "It's not about the Bike").

For you and scribe:

http://books.google.com/books?id=zJ...&resnum=4&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

go to page 178

 

[Race Radio]

Hahaha, exactly!
Everybody in the professional cycling world knew of LA working with Ferrari, since 1995. It was no news when it came "public" in 2001.

Not exactly. I know teammates of his at the time who were surprised of the news.

There is a reason he kept it quite for so long

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Interestingly, David Walsh quotes the "Donati Dossier" as fact in the book From Lance to Landis (Check page 48). If I were a betting man, I would wager that LeMond is getting his facts from Walsh, who may have forgotten to tell LeMond that the dossier apparently mentions him and his trainer...

It's more likely Greg red the Donati report himself. You can read it here. It's 109 pages and dry medical info at times, but eye opening.

I would strongly recommend everyone who wishes to comment on this issue at least peruse through it. Donati was extremely thorough in his report, painstakingly citing references, studies and sources.

Here is WADA's release, and info on Donati.

 

[Big GMaC]

Ferrari is comedy gold.

He appears to forget how the rapid spread of the cancer of his most famous client can be attributed to the aggressive steroid program Armstrong admitted that participated in.

Greg's strategy is working. The rats are clearly afraid.

Will anyone come out and directly state this?

Because would take some balls.

i.e Highlight the fact that the drugs tests should have shown the indicators of his cancer, (massive ratio differences that would have showed cancer) yet they never did for some reason

Will Lemond have those balls?

 

[CitizenErased]

It's more likely Greg red the Donati report himself.

Ugh... that is not the Donati Dossier.
It's a different report.

 

[MacRoadie]

It's more likely Greg red the Donati report himself. You can read it here. It's 109 pages and dry medical info at times, but eye opening.

I would strongly recommend everyone who wishes to comment on this issue at least peruse through it. Donati was extremely thorough in his report, painstakingly citing references, studies and sources.

Here is WADA's release, and info on Donati.

I was under the impression the "report" in question was the 1994 EPO report to CONI that mysteriously disappeared:

9. 1994, THE EPO DOSSIER

Before the Committee was closed down, however, I decided to investigate closely, and very secretly, on the incidence of doping among professional cyclists.

I identified twelve key-figures of the cycling milieu, athletes, physicians, officials, and spoke to them assuring that the information would remain strictly anonymous, as my interest lay in collecting information that I would then report to the President and to the General Secretary of CONI in order to establish adequate measures.
After four months of investigation, I arrived to extraordinary conclusions:

1) anti-doping tests on cyclists were very rarely positive because they used new substances, peptidic hormones, which cannot be traced with urine tests;
2) in particular, the erythropoietin hormone also known as Epo, was being used ever more frequently;
3) the idea of using Epo for athletes involved in endurance sports, and therefore also for cyclists, had clearly come from Prof. Conconi, who had been nominated member of the IOC Medical Committee some years before;
4) Prof. Conconi and his assistants had signed very important contracts with professional cyclist clubs to administer Epo to the cyclists;
5) at that time the production of Epo was quite limited and the substance was provided only to the hospitals who treated nephrology and the cyclists therefore obtained it through illegal channels;
6) the cost of Epo on the black market was very high (about 150 US$ per dose); there were also other very expensive hormones, such as Gh, or Igf1; in other words the doping market was becoming as lucrative as the narcotics market;

I wrote out a 14-page report and sent it, complete with a protocol letter, to the President and to the General Secretary of CONI. The President did not even answer it. The General Secretary sent for me and said he was very worried.

Time passed but nothing more was said about my report.

Anti-doping the Fraud Behind the Stage

Just so the fanboys don't accuse anyone of obfuscation...

 

[CitizenErased]

Now your footing is a little less solid. Only a few people knew Lance was working with Ferrari (Even his team was kept in the dark and Lance didn't even bother to mention it in "It's not about the Bike").

For you and scribe:

http://books.google.com/books?id=zJ...&resnum=4&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

go to page 178

I apologize. I was wrong writing that everybody knew.
I should have written a lot of people within the world of professional cycling.

 

[red_flanders]

Bravo...

"But what Greg does not know, or pretends not to know, is that one of such “confidants” actually clearly mentions his name and that of his doctor in relation to doping events."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/open-letter-from-dr-michele-ferrari

Really? Let's see this mention of his name and his doctor. I'd like to hear the details of it. For all I know it says "Greg Lemond and his doctor, while working for teams where doping was rumored, appear not to have engaged in the practice".

I call absolute BS. Ferrari is a liar and is very careful to say nothing of any substance whatsoever with his little slander.