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Dr Luigi Cecchini

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Aug 13, 2009
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I have heard that Cecchini has retired. He comes from a very wealthy family and does not need to work anymore. He is almost 70 years old.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Race Radio said:
I have heard that Cecchini has retired. He comes from a very wealthy family and does not need to work anymore. He is almost 70 years old.

That would make sense. Apparently his father was a millionaire (of course if it was in Lira that doesn't necessarily mean all that much)
 
Race Radio said:
I have heard that Cecchini has retired. He comes from a very wealthy family and does not need to work anymore. He is almost 70 years old.

So if you have a wealthy family you're allowed to retire as early as 70?
Wow, nobody goes that extra mile anymore - must be due to less doping and having to rely on your natural abilities :)
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Christian said:
That would make sense. Apparently his father was a millionaire (of course if it was in Lira that doesn't necessarily mean all that much)

IIRC his father owned a shirt making factory. Not sure if it survived, most of those mid sized Italian business have moved their production to China.
 
Race Radio said:
IIRC his father owned a shirt making factory. Not sure if it survived, most of those mid sized Italian business have moved their production to China.

If you say so.

But, I think this is more true of the bike manufacturers going to Taiwan than it is of the high end Italian shirt factories moving to China. If you want hand-stitched buttonholes, stick with Italy.

Dave.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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JPM London said:
I actually think he doesn't have anything to do with dope, but when approached by his riders has introduced them to the people he knew would be able to take of them in a secure and professional manner fully well knowing the riders would do it anyway and that he might as well make sure it was done properly.

That seems to be the way it works across many teams.

It also adds credence to the proposed consequence of TEAMS getting spanked rather than solely individual RIDERS. It would be a rare thing indeed to have a solo rider, working his own program with no team knowledge, at the Pro Tour level.

Whether C was doping riders or not, I'd be confident in stating that he knew who was doing what.

And that's a lot of 'what'...
 
Aug 13, 2009
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D-Queued said:
If you say so.

But, I think this is more true of the bike manufacturers going to Taiwan than it is of the high end Italian shirt factories moving to China. If you want hand-stitched buttonholes, stick with Italy.

Dave.

Not high end. Mid range. High end still doing well.

Huge portions of mid range manufacturing has moved overseas.....or even import Chinese workers to Italy. The Venato, Lombardia, and the area west of Florence especially hard hit.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Race Radio said:
Not high end. Mid range. High end still doing well.

Huge portions of mid range manufacturing has moved overseas.....or even import Chinese workers to Italy. The Venato, Lombardia, and the area west of Florence especially hard hit.

Lots of importing of Chinese labour. The Italians aren't too stoked on it. As are the Greeks who are the entry-point of thousands of illegals to keep the EU machine rolling.

Isn't globalization awesome? Now everyone is getting poorer and hating each other more. Wicked.

Wow! How's that for an off-topic digression...
 
JMBeaushrimp said:
That seems to be the way it works across many teams.

It also adds credence to the proposed consequence of TEAMS getting spanked rather than solely individual RIDERS. It would be a rare thing indeed to have a solo rider, working his own program with no team knowledge, at the Pro Tour level.

Whether C was doping riders or not, I'd be confident in stating that he knew who was doing what.

And that's a lot of 'what'...

As for Riis himself and what C did for him Riis said exactly that, when he came clean in 07 I think: That C had not been involved in the doping, but that he knew what was going on - he had to as his doctor - and said that Riis should be very careful and be sure to take care of himself.

Obviously some of the dope doctors are in it for the money, to see have much they can push boundaries and so on, but I think quite a few of them are/were just succumbing to the facts that their patients are going to do it anyway and they might as well try to make it as safe for them as possible - "better I do it than some schmuck".

In his recent autobiography Riis also details all the other areas where he got immense support from C - all non-dope and even non-medical areas. Riis was a crazy innovator as a rider - as he is now as a DS - and tried all kinds of things that could give him an edge or more knowledge like sleeping on nail mattresses (fakir mattresses) and how C was pretty much the only person who not only didn't shake his head at his follies, but supported him and came up with a lot of ideas as well - some more crazy than Bjarne's own ideas.
 
May 5, 2009
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Cecchini was one of the most interesting revelations in Tyler's book "The Secret Race".

Interestingly, Tyler writes that Luigi was always against doping and advised not to dope or not to dope too much. He also said that with specific and targeted training, one can achieve almost as much as with doping.

On the other hand, it is contradictory to the notes in the interview linked earlier here in the thread, where it is said that he sent some riders to Fuentes and once called Fuentes. But considering that most of his clients were also seeing Fuentes for the d-thing that might maybe not say too much? Hmm... difficult...

While his client list is condemning, considering Tyler's statement, maybe he is not even that bad? That's really something that I would like to ask or speak about with Tyler. Is Cecchini really a dope doc as FatPat and the media indicate or is Tyler right?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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If you look in the acknowledgement list at the back of the secret race. Tyler addresses cecco and his family as 'his european family'. I'm undecided but gut feeling is Tyler is hiding something here.
 
According to Hamilton, Cecchini said three qualities are needed to win the Tour:
1) You need to be extremely fit
2) You have to be extremely skinny
3) You have to keep your hematocrit up
In Cecco's eyes, rule number 3 is a regrettable and unavoidable fact of life.
 
the delgados said:
According to Hamilton, Cecchini said three qualities are needed to win the Tour:
1) You need to be extremely fit
2) You have to be extremely skinny
3) You have to keep your hematocrit up
In Cecco's eyes, rule number 3 is a regrettable and unavoidable fact of life.

It's also a bit limited, as with a low Hct an an extra bloodbag, you can reach very similar results.

I can see though how a fysiology doctor/trainer would prefer blood doping via bags over substances. It doesn'enhance your fysiology as much. No crap enters your system, when done properly.

Sure, a skinny and superfit well-trained clean rider has a fighting chance against an overweight, lazy out of shape doper. But that goes without saying. That's simple math.
 
May 5, 2009
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AcademyCC said:
If you look in the acknowledgement list at the back of the secret race. Tyler addresses cecco and his family as 'his european family'. I'm undecided but gut feeling is Tyler is hiding something here.

I hope not, but you might be right. Probably what just appears to be obvious that he sent his riders for item #3 (see below) to Madrid... But then again, not everybody did the hematocrit massaging / doping part with Fuentes. Wish we could really have first hand information on Cecchini.

the delgados said:
According to Hamilton, Cecchini said three qualities are needed to win the Tour:
1) You need to be extremely fit
2) You have to be extremely skinny
3) You have to keep your hematocrit up
In Cecco's eyes, rule number 3 is a regrettable and unavoidable fact of life.
 
With the Dekker book out, worth re-animating a convo that same up when the Cancellara book came out, about the most misunderstood doctor in sport, Luigi Cecchini

fmk_RoI said:
Fabian Cancellara in his recently translated authorised biography, talking about Luigi Cecchini:
"'He came straight to the point with me,' says Cancellara. '"If you've come here to find drugs to make you go faster, there's the door." He was quite clear. He never mentioned doping to me. Doping was never an issue for me.'"
And, from the same, on why he didn't have to dope:
"I was indeed around at a time when doping was unfortunately a very topical issue, but you have to make a distinction between those who specialised in the Grand Tours and those riders who focused on the classics, like me. For classics riders, doping wasn't something that could make them better."
Deets

Of the responses this drew on Twitter this is by far my fave.

fmk_RoI said:
ThePopeOfDope said:
I thought this was a place for rational discussion over doping. Luigi Cecchini never mentioning dope is like saying his son is clean...
1)The 96 olympic race had 3 of his clients on the podium including Sorensen (finished 2nd or 3rd, Richard won) who admitted to using dope for most of his career...
2)Hamilton was working with him when he won the olympic TT...
3)Cecchini is a well known associate of Prof.Conconi...
4)He worked with Riis when he won the TDF and got the infamous nickname Mr.60%...
The guy is a doping Dr. a good one compared to most seeing the palmares of the riders who worked with him including Dekker's only big wins that came when he was working with Dr.Cecchini...
Why do people listen to what Dekker has to say? He's a lying crook who spent all of his money on whores and drugs and is now looking a for quick way to make some cash.
I can see why certain Clinic regulars would take issue with Cancellara's claim - and Dekker's and Hamilton's and Millar's and (?) Jaksche's - I mean you've just presented a brilliant case of guilt by association - zero actual evidence, just lots of innuendo - only for all those clients of Cecchini's to point out that it wasn't the way you think it was. So, clearly, in order to hold to the guilt by association doctrine, we must insist that Cancellara, Dekker, Hamilton, Millar, Jaksche (?) are all telling porkies. Which, of course, they would, cause they're dopers, and we can only believe dopers when they say something that we agree with.

(Did Riis also deny that he and Cecchini discussed doping when he was a rider? So many books, so little I can be bothered remembering any more.)

As for the claim that Cecchini is a well known associate of Prof Conconi - again, I'm going to go from memory here, but Cecchini has IIRC said he only ever met Conconi a couple of times, conferences and the like, he certainly didn't train under him and certainly isn't an associate. Do you have evidence of their association?

Edit: here's what Cecchini said about Conconi
"Everywhere they call me a pupil of Conconi but I only know him from conventions for sports physicians. I met him only once. I also was only once at the Ferrara university. Still my name is being linked with that university in the media. Why? I don't have a clue. I also wasn't in close contact with Ferrari. We worked together for one season with Ariostea. Our contact was dry and business related but with mutual respect."

fmk_RoI said:
Re Cecchini, Conconi and the prescriptions

AFAIK, the only real link between Cecco and Conconi is that he was initially a part of the Ferrara investigation, that when the authorities hit the pharmacy in Bologna they found there prescriptions issued by Cecchini. The dates on the prescriptions, I don't know. Those who know the matter better, maybe you can provide them. Whatever the dates (pre or post 1996), the authorities dropped Cecchini from the case (he says they never even questioned him about it). How that can possibly make Cecchini a well known associate of Conconi I don't know. Me, call me picky, but I'd expect a little bit more evidence for him to be a well known associate.

(Also, Cecchini in at least one interview I've seen says he sued journalists over this - now lots of people claim they'll initiate cases, I know, it's bollox. But Cecchini also claims that he won his cases and received compensation. If someone wants to ferret out reports about these lawsuits and the reality of their outcomes, go for it. This of course does not prove he was innocent, I don't claim it does. But it does raise questions about the reports themselves. Which is why what's said in a court case is more important than what is alleged in a news story before it gets to court.)

The issue here isn't whether Cecco was a dirty doctor or not - I think we're all agreed on the reality of that. The issue here is whether he was as dirty as we thought. We have claims from Riis, from Dekker, from Jaksche, from Millar, from Hamilton, from Cancellara all suggesting at the very least that - by the time they dealt with him - Cecco had got the hang of compartmentalisation, certainly where they were concerned. (Hamilton's version of reality is of particular relevance there.) Rather than simply dismiss those claims out of hand as being the lies of lying liars, I think it's worth entertaining them and seeing where they lead us, examine what they tell us about what we think we know. But then that's me, I don't need the world to be black and white, good guys and bad guys (or, round here, bad guys and more bad guys).

WRT the piccies above, and particularly the syringe. Yes, I think drawing blood is proof of doping, of course it is. It's all the proof we need and more besides. If you take it out, of course you put it back in. Everyone's seen Hancock.
 
Here's Dekker, in summary:

- intro via Jacques Hanegraaf, who knew Cecchini thru Ullrich (Team Coast days)
- Cecchini only coaches for pleasure, he has more money than he knows what to do with
- No money changed hands
- Never saw anything to justify Cecchini's rep (most of his own experience with doping came through Rabo and Hanegraaf)

In all the years I trained with him he never once suggested that I use doping.