Driving into cyclists the Emma way

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It has been a common route for all the city and eastern suburbs training groups for many many years. I've ridden it myself countless times but I'm afraid that the nature of the road and driving culture is such that this is going to become a more regular occurrence. Of course the comments will be of the "blame the victim" style, so not worth reading.

Nevertheless, this is big part of why I stopped riding much in Sydney some time back. I didn't realise how much my training for racing meant I put up with so much *** on the roads until I "retired" and learned that it was simply not enjoyable to ride there. Riding for pleasure wasn't overly possible. So I left town and have started riding again in much more cycle friendly location, and it's been bliss (although shifting all the extra kgs and crummy fitness are a challenge!).
 
Re:

Alex Simmons/RST said:
It has been a common route for all the city and eastern suburbs training groups for many many years. I've ridden it myself countless times but I'm afraid that the nature of the road and driving culture is such that this is going to become a more regular occurrence. Of course the comments will be of the "blame the victim" style, so not worth reading.

Nevertheless, this is big part of why I stopped riding much in Sydney some time back. I didn't realise how much my training for racing meant I put up with so much ****** on the roads until I "retired" and learned that it was simply not enjoyable to ride there. Riding for pleasure wasn't overly possible. So I left town and have started riding again in much more cycle friendly location, and it's been bliss (although shifting all the extra kgs and crummy fitness are a challenge!).
There is no way I would ride on that road but depending on where you want to go to get to quieter roads it's not that easy and not everyone has a car to drive to a better location as some people do. These riders need to find a better training route it's just not worth the risk. But the fact that some drivers just plough into them at speed means they are not even being seen, a large bunch of riders, but of course the driver could be on something or just a rubbish car driver.
 
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movingtarget said:
Alex Simmons/RST said:
It has been a common route for all the city and eastern suburbs training groups for many many years. I've ridden it myself countless times but I'm afraid that the nature of the road and driving culture is such that this is going to become a more regular occurrence. Of course the comments will be of the "blame the victim" style, so not worth reading.

Nevertheless, this is big part of why I stopped riding much in Sydney some time back. I didn't realise how much my training for racing meant I put up with so much ****** on the roads until I "retired" and learned that it was simply not enjoyable to ride there. Riding for pleasure wasn't overly possible. So I left town and have started riding again in much more cycle friendly location, and it's been bliss (although shifting all the extra kgs and crummy fitness are a challenge!).
There is no way I would ride on that road but depending on where you want to go to get to quieter roads it's not that easy and not everyone has a car to drive to a better location as some people do. These riders need to find a better training route it's just not worth the risk. But the fact that some drivers just plough into them at speed means they are not even being seen, a large bunch of riders, but of course the driver could be on something or just a rubbish car driver.
The elephant in the room is that Southern Cross Drive is a State designated cycling route, but everyone is having too good a time blaming the victims instead of asking why there isn't a more suitable route in the Eastern Suburbs. The M2 motorway in the Northern Suburbs is another similar situation - 100km/h zones and "bike lanes" don't mix.
 
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42x16ss said:
movingtarget said:
Alex Simmons/RST said:
It has been a common route for all the city and eastern suburbs training groups for many many years. I've ridden it myself countless times but I'm afraid that the nature of the road and driving culture is such that this is going to become a more regular occurrence. Of course the comments will be of the "blame the victim" style, so not worth reading.

Nevertheless, this is big part of why I stopped riding much in Sydney some time back. I didn't realise how much my training for racing meant I put up with so much ****** on the roads until I "retired" and learned that it was simply not enjoyable to ride there. Riding for pleasure wasn't overly possible. So I left town and have started riding again in much more cycle friendly location, and it's been bliss (although shifting all the extra kgs and crummy fitness are a challenge!).
There is no way I would ride on that road but depending on where you want to go to get to quieter roads it's not that easy and not everyone has a car to drive to a better location as some people do. These riders need to find a better training route it's just not worth the risk. But the fact that some drivers just plough into them at speed means they are not even being seen, a large bunch of riders, but of course the driver could be on something or just a rubbish car driver.
The elephant in the room is that Southern Cross Drive is a State designated cycling route, but everyone is having too good a time blaming the victims instead of asking why there isn't a more suitable route in the Eastern Suburbs. The M2 motorway in the Northern Suburbs is another similar situation - 100km/h zones and "bike lanes" don't mix.
Yes cyclists are taking calculated risks and shouldn't have to but there are many roads like this now especially in the larger Australian cities and then you have some of the drivers themselves, some of whom are totally against cyclists being on the road at all. Australia just doesn't have the cycling culture that some European cities have and probably never will unless there is massive changes from the government and the same level of change in attitudes to cycling and cyclists.
 
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winkybiker said:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/prospect-of-demolishing-dunc-gray-velodrome-threatens-nsw-cycling-20161208-gt7fes.html

NSW really does hate cyclists, doesn't it?
Track cycling used to be a huge sport especially in Australia. The participation rate was high even at the youth level but times change and the money does not seem to be in it anymore. They do need an indoor velodrome that's for sure but many velodromes when they are built now are multi purpose, it sounds like this one isn't. This seems to be a problem in every Olympics now and not just with velodromes, how are the venues used afterwards ? Look what happened in Athens. Even in the World Cup some stadiums are often little used later. I am sure they could find a way to retain the velodrome but money and patronage is always the bottom line for any venue sports or otherwise.
 
man knocked off bike by the transport secretary

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/16/chris-grayling-could-face-private-prosecution-for-dooring-cyclist

Cycling UK offers legal assistance to man who was knocked off bike by the transport secretary as he got out of ministerial car

Chris Grayling, the transport secretary, could face a private prosecution for “dooring” a passing cyclist in Westminster, when he sent a man crashing off his bike by opening the door of his ministerial car in traffic.

A cycling organisation hopes to contact the cyclist to offer legal assistance. Although the transport secretary stopped to apologise and check on the injured man, he left about 90 seconds after the incident, without leaving his details. The cyclist, Jaiqi Liu, was left dazed and injured, with a damaged bike and unaware of the identity of Grayling or the other ministers and aides in the car.

Cycling UK said “dooring” was a criminal offence and that if police did not prosecute, it was prepared to use its cyclists’ defence fund (CDF) to assist Liu in considering a possible case against Grayling.
 
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
winkybiker said:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/prospect-of-demolishing-dunc-gray-velodrome-threatens-nsw-cycling-20161208-gt7fes.html

NSW really does hate cyclists, doesn't it?
Track cycling used to be a huge sport especially in Australia. The participation rate was high even at the youth level but times change and the money does not seem to be in it anymore. They do need an indoor velodrome that's for sure but many velodromes when they are built now are multi purpose, it sounds like this one isn't. This seems to be a problem in every Olympics now and not just with velodromes, how are the venues used afterwards ? Look what happened in Athens. Even in the World Cup some stadiums are often little used later. I am sure they could find a way to retain the velodrome but money and patronage is always the bottom line for any venue sports or otherwise.
I live in Brisbane, less than half the size of Sydney where the new velodrome has been built for the 2016 Commonwealth Games. It's been finished for a few weeks but it's already seeing heavy use. Why? Brisbane has 12 clubs in the greater metropolitan area, almost all with regular racing. Sydney has around 15-20 clubs for less than double the population, some aren't even racing clubs.

The attitude to events, permits and suitable venues helps drive participation and quality of events.
 
Re: Re:

42x16ss said:
movingtarget said:
winkybiker said:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/prospect-of-demolishing-dunc-gray-velodrome-threatens-nsw-cycling-20161208-gt7fes.html

NSW really does hate cyclists, doesn't it?
Track cycling used to be a huge sport especially in Australia. The participation rate was high even at the youth level but times change and the money does not seem to be in it anymore. They do need an indoor velodrome that's for sure but many velodromes when they are built now are multi purpose, it sounds like this one isn't. This seems to be a problem in every Olympics now and not just with velodromes, how are the venues used afterwards ? Look what happened in Athens. Even in the World Cup some stadiums are often little used later. I am sure they could find a way to retain the velodrome but money and patronage is always the bottom line for any venue sports or otherwise.
I live in Brisbane, less than half the size of Sydney where the new velodrome has been built for the 2016 Commonwealth Games. It's been finished for a few weeks but it's already seeing heavy use. Why? Brisbane has 12 clubs in the greater metropolitan area, almost all with regular racing. Sydney has around 15-20 clubs for less than double the population, some aren't even racing clubs.

The attitude to events, permits and suitable venues helps drive participation and quality of events.
29 Sydney metro clubs, and as you say many are participation clubs, not racing clubs. Not helped by the CNSW Board approving commercial organisations to become "clubs".

Clubs in Sydney are very tribal and decent race venues are sparse, and getting fewer each year.
 
Re: Re:

Alex Simmons/RST said:
42x16ss said:
movingtarget said:
winkybiker said:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/prospect-of-demolishing-dunc-gray-velodrome-threatens-nsw-cycling-20161208-gt7fes.html

NSW really does hate cyclists, doesn't it?
Track cycling used to be a huge sport especially in Australia. The participation rate was high even at the youth level but times change and the money does not seem to be in it anymore. They do need an indoor velodrome that's for sure but many velodromes when they are built now are multi purpose, it sounds like this one isn't. This seems to be a problem in every Olympics now and not just with velodromes, how are the venues used afterwards ? Look what happened in Athens. Even in the World Cup some stadiums are often little used later. I am sure they could find a way to retain the velodrome but money and patronage is always the bottom line for any venue sports or otherwise.
I live in Brisbane, less than half the size of Sydney where the new velodrome has been built for the 2016 Commonwealth Games. It's been finished for a few weeks but it's already seeing heavy use. Why? Brisbane has 12 clubs in the greater metropolitan area, almost all with regular racing. Sydney has around 15-20 clubs for less than double the population, some aren't even racing clubs.

The attitude to events, permits and suitable venues helps drive participation and quality of events.
29 Sydney metro clubs, and as you say many are participation clubs, not racing clubs. Not helped by the CNSW Board approving commercial organisations to become "clubs".

Clubs in Sydney are very tribal and decent race venues are sparse, and getting fewer each year.
I can imagine that Sydney clubs would have problems with road courses course especially with councils and even residents depending on where they are. Usually the country clubs in regional centres don't have such problems. When I raced years ago there was a lot of traveling done between clubs and events and lot of good races. I am sure that many of those races have disappeared now as well as some of the clubs. In Sydney you had the Tempe velodrome, Camperdown and Wiley Park before the indoor one was built plus you had one at Goulburn, one at Wollongong, I think Nowra had some sort of track and a lot riders would compete between clubs even just on normal club events and on road and track. Wiley Park and Camperdown are long gone of course. Mountain bike racing may have also had an impact although many riders compete on road as well sometimes. I was on the Wollongong's club's website a few months ago and they had suspended their road races because they couldn't get enough volunteer road marshalls but I think it was resolved. Usually I found that a lot of young riders at the club level would drop out when they started working and some would return later but the turnover rate was quite high. Some couldn't handle training at night and some just lost interest or moved elsewhere. Unless the sport is a big one like AFL or cricket or soccer the smaller sports like cycling really depend on their members being dedicated and making themselves useful in some capacity even if they have stopped riding and there are some great officials around that have given a lot of time to the sport. Hopefully some of the younger people follow on.
 
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
Alex Simmons/RST said:
This is particularly awful - 33 year old woman killed on Mona Vale Road today while cycling with a small group - hit by a car:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4044804/Female-cyclist-critical-condition-hit-car-Pymble-Sydney.html
Terrible situation. I think the family could have also done without the photos. Maybe a little more tact wouldn't go astray sometimes within the media.
Caption from one of the photos: "Two bystanders are still sporting their helmets and wearing their bike cleats as they comfort a man who has removed his helmet". Subtext is that cycling is so absurdly and fundamentally dangerous (thus requiring the wearing of helmets) that those who voluntarily engage in this risky activity somehow deserve what they get. In other outrageous reporting, the SMH reports that the cyclist "collided with a car", not that she was run down.
 
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Alex Simmons/RST said:
An update from NSW Police facebook page:

having ridden that section of mona vale road countless times, you're moving pretty quick there - it's downhill and you can freewheel to over 50kmh fairly easily.
Must admit that I'm normally wary of the motorists coming out of the side streets, but not those doing right hand turns into those side streets (ie; cutting across your path)
Could well be yet another situation of a driver underestimating the speed of an oncoming cyclist?
I find it very common here that cars will pull out rather than wait for you to go past no matter what speed you're doing. Plenty of near misses...
 
Re: Re:

Archibald said:
Alex Simmons/RST said:
What exactly was the hassle?

Just looked like someone having a look at the rider as their car passed by at a reasonably safe distance.
would assume the passenger calls something out? (I don't have sound access - work 'puter)
You can't actually hear what he's saying... but I suppose the person who filmed and posted heard what was being said.
 

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