Dual subject : Vino and other relatively clean/dirty 2010 TdF riders

So, Vino got his win. He was not tired from his recent long efforts, apparently.
If he DID NOT dope this season, either preparing for, or during the Tour de France, he is APPARENTLY the most naturally gifted rider of this century. And, he needlessly commited blood doping.

Who who seems to be relatively clean or dirty?
- Balan ran out of steam, relatively early for him. He just may have a bad Tour.
- Armstrong, is incredibly weak and unfocussed. If he doped this year, earlier preparing or during the TdF, he didn't get his money's worth, and obviously took needless risk. Unless they're not risks at all for a man like him.
Journalists as well as union top heads, just plead with the guy. All wear his yellow bracelets. Find every opportunity to mention his name. The best of journalists can't help themselves, but to lead the way in this.
- Supposing Leipheimer is on the same as Armstrong, he's looking very typical to his abilities.
- Cancellara. What's up with him? Such a prologue, and then fading like that.
- Hincapie. Not a shadow of the Lance helper he once was. Either WELL over the hill, or not doping anymore. Why would one stay in pro cycling (having other ventures to mind), while being just a faint foot note?
- Lars Boom. Disappoints me. Was weak in his first stage getaway. For a former -23 TT world champ, and CX Elite world champ when actually being -23 still. Out of shape, or cleaner than before.
- Hushovd. Lost his speed, seems to be a great alrounder now. And also-ran in sprints. Yet battles for his green jersey. Odd no-one else seems to fight for it.

Your lists of strikingly strong or weak riders, for possible more/less doping reasons?
 
Cunego has been going virtually in every stage, and he's quite universally reckoned to be clean. Granted, he runs out of steam more often than not, but aside from yesterday it's not like Vino had done much.

That said, I doubt Vino stopped doping all of sudden.
 
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Cloxxki said:
So, Vino got his win. He was not tired from his recent long efforts, apparently.
If he DID NOT dope this season, either preparing for, or during the Tour de France, he is APPARENTLY the most naturally gifted rider of this century. And, he needlessly commited blood doping.

I think thats probabably a bit extreme, yes he had a tough day yesterday, but he only attacked today for 7k on a bit of a hill and then a flat. It was timing more than anything.

I dont think todays little breakaway would have taken much more out of him then perhaps leading contador up a hill for a few k tommorow, or being a domestique. I dont think today was much of a superhuman effort to be honest.

You cant compare a 6-7k breakaway to having a genuinly tough day two days in a row.
 
Cloxxki said:
So, Vino got his win. He was not tired from his recent long efforts, apparently.
If he DID NOT dope this season, either preparing for, or during the Tour de France, he is APPARENTLY the most naturally gifted rider of this century.

Hyperbole much?

I think a huge chunk of that win goes to Contador for some awesome teamwork, repeatedly disrupting the chase.
 
TeamSkyFans said:
I think thats probabably a bit extreme, yes he had a tough day yesterday, but he only attacked today for 7k on a bit of a hill and then a flat. It was timing more than anything.

I dont think todays little breakaway would have taken much more out of him then perhaps leading contador up a hill for a few k tommorow, or being a domestique. I dont think today was much of a superhuman effort to be honest.

You cant compare a 6-7k breakaway to having a genuinly tough day two days in a row.

So, today was a bit like doing a couple solo laps off the front around the Champs Elisees, is that what you mean? :)
It's not like no-one else wanted this win.
Well, maybe there are too many wimps at the front to let the heroes through. All too scared to get a burn in the leg. Have to hand that to Vino, he'll suffer.
 

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- Balan ran out of steam, relatively early for him. He just may have a bad Tour.

Didn't you see the stage of the Col de la Madeleine, Ballan was absolutely fantastic in that stage, so he at least is not having a bad tour.

But concerning the obvious topic at hand, yes I think Vino dopes, but no more than most others, you often see him lose steam, but his attacking mind and mentality can bring him to great achievements sometimes, the rest of the tour he has worked as a domestique to AC
 
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Cloxxki said:
So, today was a bit like doing a couple solo laps off the front around the Champs Elisees, is that what you mean? :)
It's not like no-one else wanted this win.
Well, maybe there are too many wimps at the front to let the heroes through. All too scared to get a burn in the leg. Have to hand that to Vino, he'll suffer.

I wonder how many people thought that he deserved it after yesterday. He picked his moment, timed it perfectly and won, but that amount of effort after a tough day is not really equal to "the most naturally gifted rider of this century"
 
I missed Balan's other action, can't get much TV time in al days.

The Vino performances are just adding up. He seems no less a rider than when caught for blood doping.

Others who did not get caught, are performing below expectations.
 
Dec 29, 2009
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Cloxxki said:
I missed Balan's other action, can't get much TV time in al days.

The Vino performances are just adding up. He seems no less a rider than when caught for blood doping.

Others who did not get caught, are performing below expectations.

miraculous, isn't it :)? i've never seen anyone perform as well after a two-year ban.

ed rader
 
You'd almost think Vino got himself on the receiving end of omerta friendlies. A great deal to ride for Astana, top program, and some teams holding off from even trying to catch him on a hill. Haha, which teams do and don't protect Vino? He may be sitting on better intel than Landis, and using it to star in the TdF, where Landis was not even granted an overrated Tour of Bankruptcy.

So, presuming Vino learned his lesson...WTF did he ever go through the trouble of taking doping? He is already better than World Champs and former TdF champs when clean, and just serving as domestique.
 
The hypocrisy here, starts and ends with the fact that no one actually knows who is clean and who is dirty.
Fans of Lance are happy to ignore the fact that he and Vino have shared the same doping doctor, choosing to believe Armstrong used Ferrari for training purposes, while Vino used him to blood dope.

The real difference is that Vino has been sanctioned, when others have continued to ride, dirty.

I think the reason that many applaud Vino is two fold.
Firstly, because of his fearless, attacking style of riding.
Secondly, to balance the whiners, who slag him off, as a doper, while defending their own favourites, based upon a blind faith supposition, that they are clean.
 
erader said:
miraculous, isn't it :)? i've never seen anyone perform as well after a two-year ban.

ed rader

Not many people in that circumstance have had the support Vino has received; most have been treated as lepers rather than the man around whom a nation's aspirations are expressed.

I'm not saying anything about Vino's preparation, only that he's had much better opportunity to perform than almost anyone else, except say, Basso, who wasn't bad earlier this year either.

-dB
 
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Vino is almost a cartoon character, that's why people like him. I really doubt the changed his doping habits beyond not getting a transfusion from a relative or whatever he did to get busted. The loose cannon has to fire.

Wiggins is obviously the guy who stands out the most. He looks like he misses Lim.
 
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Epicycle said:
Vino is almost a cartoon character, that's why people like him.

Granted that Vino got sanctioned for doping, served his time and came back and so on. But if you live life decently and act with quiet dignity in public, you're a cartoon? How so? Here's a small biography on him.
 
Mellow Velo said:
The hypocrisy here, starts and ends with the fact that no one actually knows who is clean and who is dirty.
Fans of Lance are happy to ignore the fact that he and Vino have shared the same doping doctor, choosing to believe Armstrong used Ferrari for training purposes, while Vino used him to blood dope.

The real difference is that Vino has been sanctioned, when others have continued to ride, dirty.

I think the reason that many applaud Vino is two fold.
Firstly, because of his fearless, attacking style of riding.
Secondly, to balance the whiners, who slag him off, as a doper, while defending their own favourites, based upon a blind faith supposition, that they are clean.

I am neither a Lance fan nor a Vino hater. But that doesnt mean that 1 and the other are the same. Sure there are probably some lance fans who call Vino a doper, but lets not generalise. The person leading the anti vino chants on the race thread is a cadel fan. Unless you think cuddles is equally guillty.
 
I just saw it again.
14s Vino had with over 3km of flat, headwind to go. He held it, with reserve to spare.
Were the sprinting teams THAT tired from the climb? More so than Vino, apparently. Not one guy would go in the lead and match Vino's speed.
No dope in the world makes that happen for Vino. Just all at once, the sprint teams that had been preparing for hours to bring their men into position, didn't want to win anymore. At least not badly enough.
I see it, but can hardly believe it.
So many cycling wins are bought, perhaps more even that frauded through dope, certainly at lower level.
I don't always go for conspiracies, but this is just odd.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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The funny thing is that vino said in an interview is that he does not want to talk about 2007 and his past but he wants people to trust him. Why would you believe or trust him when he says that? He is riding exactly like he did in the past. he seemed to do it so easily and I hope he gets his **** kicked out of the tour personally as he is poison in the sport of cycling!
 
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Epicycle said:
Wiggins is obviously the guy who stands out the most. He looks like he misses Lim.

Disagree, I think Wiggins is showing his natural level this year last year was unique in that it was not the most mountainous of parcours, certainly easier than this year and he's about where he should be. He'll take some time back in the TT and scratch a top ten.
 
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auscyclefan94 said:
The funny thing is that vino said in an interview is that he does not want to talk about 2007 and his past but he wants people to trust him. Why would you believe or trust him when he says that? He is riding exactly like he did in the past. he seemed to do it so easily and I hope he gets his **** kicked out of the tour personally as he is poison in the sport of cycling!

Hate much ?
 
Personally everybody makes mistakes and deserves a second chance"
But just a question.Why did Vino and Basso(just examples)dope in the first place?There results seem to be better/on par with their past,so why do it?Obviously these talented riders dont need to dope to win?or do they?Confused!
 
Should be Basso be given more sympathy than Vino ? Vino wins because he is an opportunist. Ballan sits up when he sees the bunch behind him but Vino keeps going. I don't like what he stands for but he adds excitement to the races and has served his ban like many others and the finish yesterday was tailor made for a rider like him.
 
Jul 19, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
The funny thing is that vino said in an interview is that he does not want to talk about 2007 and his past but he wants people to trust him. Why would you believe or trust him when he says that? He is riding exactly like he did in the past. he seemed to do it so easily and I hope he gets his **** kicked out of the tour personally as he is poison in the sport of cycling!
I will not bet on a totaly clean Vino but until now 2010 TDF seems much more cleaner than usual : no one clearly above 420 Portoleau Watts. So I do believe that Vino is cleaner too.
 
movingtarget said:
Should be Basso be given more sympathy than Vino ? Vino wins because he is an opportunist. Ballan sits up when he sees the bunch behind him but Vino keeps going.

I thought I saw Vino just being so mutant strong that Ballan could not hold the wheel.