Dumoulin.

["Jeff"]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":20p5jaq5]Some of you are a caricature of themselves.

After every good performance, a new topic is started or bumped.

Laughable.

You know what else is laughable? A heavy TT specialist dropping Purito and a doped alien on double figure gradients

Nevermind him, he's Dutch.

This is the nonsense I really start to dislike. That's probably the 3rd time the last 3 weeks. If I would not list that I am from Holland, I wouldnt hear this. Its lame and weak.

Who knows Dumoulin is on the juice. That's not exactly my problem. The problem I have is what I already said.

Some of you remind me of Statler and Waldorf from the Muppet Show. Cant enjoy a good performance. Everybody sucks and is doped.[/quote]

My point is I just don't think someone with Dumoulin's physique can win on a climb like that against guys like that without being juiced up. Does that make it any less entertaining? Of course not - that stage was simply epic, and it's still probably a somewhat level playing field. Just depends on who is willing to risk their health the most and take the most illegal PEDs[/quote]I already told you he's 6'0 and 165 lbs. He's one of the best time trial specialists. He's pretty fresh. He's a talented guy, the Vuelta is known for surprise acts.

Too many things too mention.

 

[roundabout]

165 lbs would probably be 10+ kg heavier than everyone else in the top 10 except Roche and Froome.

 

[proffate]

Re:

I could just about believe a steady sustained output of power from him on a climb, but this was like a 'Spanish flea' type ride, plain ridiculous.

what race were you watching? Not the same one as me. Froome, Dumoulin and Rodriguez rode steadily up the climb while Majka, Qunitana, Valverde and Chaves flailed away with 10-15 second attacks. Domoulin only rode away when the others were looking at each other (they were fanned out all across the road until Roche I believe it was sprinted after him).

In the end, Rodriguez sprinted and blew up, Froome sprinted and blew up, and finally Dumoulin just passed everyone in the final meters. Looked like he had the steadiest power output of any of the front group. The fact that the road was so steep just gives more benefit to a TT-style climber because drafting is near worthless and therefore there's no real need to respond to attacks.

Why shouldn't a good time trialist be able to climb? People love to speculate about what Tony Martin and Fabian Cancellara could do if they lost weight. Well, Dumoulin is pretty stick figurish right now. He also made an early exit from the TdF so should be fresher than a lot of the competition. Honestly this is one of the least suspicious rides from a rider at this level.

 

[proffate]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":xkffninv]I already told you he's 6'0 and 165 lbs. He's one of the best time trial specialists. He's pretty fresh. He's a talented guy, the Vuelta is known for surprise acts.

Too many things too mention.[/quote]

you know this how? Wikipedia says 6'1" 157lbs. Pro cycling stats says even less (69kg == 152lbs).

 

["Jeff"]

Re:

165 lbs would probably be 10+ kg heavier than everyone else in the top 10 except Roche and Froome.

Yes lets put everyone in a category. Those who doesnt quite meet all of Cyclingsnews' requirements for being a climber, TT specialist or whatever = doped.

I love it.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":35zoz2bm]Some of you are a caricature of themselves.

After every good performance, a new topic is started or bumped.

Laughable.

You know what else is laughable? A heavy TT specialist dropping Purito and a doped alien on double figure gradients[/quote]
Dumoulin is a whopping 3kg heavier than Froome.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Also some people are forgetting Dumoulin also won the ITT with the Aia, where only Rodriguez went faster on the Aia itself. He was always really good on the shorter hills. Steep or not steep. Now he has the advantage of being the freshest. He'll still lose a lot of time in the big mountains.

 

["Jeff"]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":krxgdg1h]I already told you he's 6'0 and 165 lbs. He's one of the best time trial specialists. He's pretty fresh. He's a talented guy, the Vuelta is known for surprise acts.

Too many things too mention.

you know this how? Wikipedia says 6'1" 157lbs. Pro cycling stats says even less (69kg == 152lbs).[/quote]I said: I met him several times and say 6'0 and 165 lbs. Now you confront me with wiki who says 6'1 and 157 lbs.

If anything, you should congratulate me (not that wiki is always a reliable source though).


I'm 6'2'' myself and he was at least 2 inches smaller. I didnt have my scale with me, sorry, but apparently was pretty close.

I'm a hockey fan, and in hockey size and weight matters, so I have some expierence with this.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

165 lbs would probably be 10+ kg heavier than everyone else in the top 10 except Roche and Froome.

Yes lets put everyone in a category. Those who doesnt quite meet all of Cyclingsnews' requirements for being a climber, TT specialist or whatever = doped.

I love it.[/quote]

No, let's put everyone who is beating known dopers at the peak of their career after their bans in the doping category, and those who are beating those in the doping category in the clean category

Even without doping, these athletes are all freaks, at the top of their game. By doping, they are getting a 5-10% gain, which is ridiculous at that level. So you're trying to say that Dumoulin is naturally 5% better than any other freak?

 

[proffate]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":1c9xo99h]I already told you he's 6'0 and 165 lbs. He's one of the best time trial specialists. He's pretty fresh. He's a talented guy, the Vuelta is known for surprise acts.

Too many things too mention.

you know this how? Wikipedia says 6'1" 157lbs. Pro cycling stats says even less (69kg == 152lbs).[/quote]I said: I met him several times and say 6'0 and 165 lbs. Now you confront me with wiki who says 6'1 and 157 lbs.

If anything, you should congratulate me (not that wiki is always a reliable source though).


I'm 6'2'' myself and he was at least 2 inches smaller. I didnt have my scale with me, sorry, but apparently was pretty close.

I'm a hockey fan, and in hockey size and weight matters, so I have some expierence with this.[/quote]

right, so you just eye-balled him. You can get within 10lbs apparently but that's not accurate enough for the purposes of the clinic. 10lbs is the difference between 10th and 1st in a GT.

 

[Miburo]

Re:

Also some people are forgetting Dumoulin also won the ITT with the Aia, where only Rodriguez went faster on the Aia itself. He was always really good on the shorter hills. Steep or not steep. Now he has the advantage of being the freshest. He'll still lose a lot of time in the big mountains.

So it's because he's fresh this is all possible?

 

[BigMac]

Think we're getting ahead of ourselves here. Nothing suspicious to see as of now, in my opinion. There hasn't even been actual medium mountains, I could always seem him perform in this sorts of finishes.

If I had to pick on something I'd be more inclined to his intriguingly fast recovery time. But even that would be far fetched I think.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

Also some people are forgetting Dumoulin also won the ITT with the Aia, where only Rodriguez went faster on the Aia itself. He was always really good on the shorter hills. Steep or not steep. Now he has the advantage of being the freshest. He'll still lose a lot of time in the big mountains.

So it's because he's fresh this is all possible?

Chris Horner
Peter Velits
Nicolas roche in the top 5
Maxime Monfort in the top 10

We've all seen it before. It's the Vuelta. Freshness really counts.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Also some people are forgetting Dumoulin also won the ITT with the Aia, where only Rodriguez went faster on the Aia itself. He was always really good on the shorter hills. Steep or not steep. Now he has the advantage of being the freshest. He'll still lose a lot of time in the big mountains.

So it's because he's fresh this is all possible?

Chris Horner
Peter Velits
Nicolas roche in the top 5
Maxime Monfort in the top 10

We've all seen it before. It's the Vuelta. Freshness really counts.

You make it look like horner didn't dope or even velits, to get a good contract lol

 

[roundabout]

Roche and Monfort did the full Tour before, so that wasn't due to freshness

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

They were fresher, i think roche didn;'t go full gc in the tour.

Anyway, it's still not suspect. If he wins in Andorra ok...

 

[roundabout]

No, if he finishes top-10 in Andorra it will be suspect. Seriously, what is his best stage finish in a high mountain stage that would only make a win suspect?

 

[BigMac]

Rettenbachferner, Saas-Fee?

You get the point.

edit. such conclusions should also deppend on how much time he loses to the day's winner.

 

[roundabout]

Yes, on one he managed to crack the top-10 against what D_T would normally call a weak field and on the other he finished same time as Tony Martin.

And this were his 2 best placements on high mountain stages.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

Yes, on one he managed to crack the top-10 against what D_T would normally call a weak field and on the other he finished same time as Tony Martin.

And this were his 2 best placements on high mountain stages.

Yes, see my edit.

 

[classicomano]

Re: Tom Dumuolin is now a climber

Dumoulin just graduated to climber. One of the most incredible/ridicolous/doped transformations ever.

Quoted for dumbest post in these forums. Ever.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

Yes, on one he managed to crack the top-10 against what D_T would normally call a weak field and on the other he finished same time as Tony Martin.

And this were his 2 best placements on high mountain stages.

This were also the only 2 times he really tried

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Yes, on one he managed to crack the top-10 against what D_T would normally call a weak field and on the other he finished same time as Tony Martin.

And this were his 2 best placements on high mountain stages.

This were also the only 2 times he really tried

And despite finishing with Tony Martin in Saas-Fee he probably did the 4th fastest ascent that day. Plus, it's cherry picking to say he finished with Tony Martin, he finished in a group of climbers.

 

[classicomano]

Dumoulin has always climbed well in races where he TRIED, hes only now really discovering what he can do climbing wise, hes still young and steadily progressed over the years. Besides, he was always great in the hills, this was a 4km effort after all. Lets see how he does in Andorra.

 

[classicomano]

A stage with 5 mountains is a real test, not a flat stage with a 4km wall in the end. Lets not forget hes also competing against a field whos completely squeezed out from the Tour while Tom is as fresh as he can be in absolute peak form.