Dutch champ Clen bust 30 pg/ml - claims Mex beef?

[theyoungest]

How often are they (and who are) tested? And are they tested for Clenbuterol?

As Swordsman claims, there are only four labs in the world with the improved testing methods. None of these is in Mexico, I guess.

 

[scribe]

Something tells me Spanish farmers are going to start treating all their cows with EPO, CERA, HGH, and Alberto Contador's blood. Just to keep this "I ate a weird steak" excuse on the "mesa".

Don't forget Vino's blood too! Accidents can happen. Believe it.

 

[sublimit]

Something tells me Spanish farmers are going to start treating all their cows with EPO, CERA, HGH, and Alberto Contador's blood. Just to keep this "I ate a weird steak" excuse on the "mesa".

The use of Contador blood for enhancing cow racing is the next big thing, particularly for Qatar,Dubai.

American bullriders might also be interested.

 

[_Zipp0_]

Is it possible that we are all consuming some small amounts of clen without knowing it? In China they will put poison into milk to increase profits, so why not elsewhere? This is the problem with allowing industry to "self-police." They are apt to put profit above all else.

The clen positives are probably doping, but there seem to be a lot of issues with this drug at the moment.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

A lot of people testing positive for Clen.

It's funny how people say here that Contador's defence is a joke with the argument that more people should get busted for clen if it was true. But everytime someone gets busted for clen they think he's guilty right away

Quite funny. And I'm aware Contador has doped in his career. But I can believe the Clen was an accident.

Clen was not an accident. Not really funny his defense. A huge pile of dung no doubt but not funny haha.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

The use of Contador blood for enhancing cow racing is the next big thing, particularly for Qatar,Dubai.

American bullriders might also be interested.

I am curious if this will catch on with the camel owners and racers?

 

[poupou]

She says "suspect", but in WADA terms, any trace is guilt, period. The guy who proved Mexican meat before still lost a year of his career. They would rather punish innocent people than let a cheater get away, even though guys get away with using things a lot more beneficial to their performance. Contador's level was forty times less than labs are required to detect. This one was even less. I don't know mountain biking - was this training at a time when a guy would be desperate enough to lose weight that he would use drugs?

You have a difficult choice : to punish sometimes an innocent guy to protect a lot of guys,
or
to let go a lot of dopers who will make more damage to a lot of clean guys.

 

[PotentialPro]

I am going down to Baja for XMAS and I have always noticed how lean the beef is there. I think I will buy my meat from COSTCO in CABO(imported beef) or eat fish.

No way I want to eat clen.

It is a conspiracy so the various "shows" in Tijuana can be extended, so they can charge more. The bulls last longer, and umm the donkeys too.

 

[crispy]

These guys need to start eating more beans and tofu.

 

[Blakeslee]

It's funny how people say here that Contador's defence is a joke with the argument that more people should get busted for clen if it was true. But everytime someone gets busted for clen they think he's guilty right away

This could also be looked at the opposite way. All of the recent Clenbuterol positives point to the possibility the drug is commonly used by professional riders as a performance enhancer. I believe Contador and others are using the beef defense because there is already some precedent for overturned or reduced suspensions based on this defense.

 

[Muzzin]

Bingo

This could also be looked at the opposite way. All of the recent Clenbuterol positives point to the possibility the drug is commonly used by professional riders as a performance enhancer. I believe Contador and others are using the beef defense because there is already some precedent for overturned or reduced suspensions based on this defense.

We have a winner.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I'm as anti-dope as they come.

Bearing that in mind, I went through all the info on the potential of eating clen-doped meat and it resulting in a positive. It is possible.

At this point, to me, it's looking more like the UCI got stuck with an accidental pos (since they weren't really looking to find anything - biopass, hahaha!); and now they're being forced to deal with it.

Tough place to be. I'm sure that they have previous AAFs from AC, but now being forced to address the clen is truly a b*tch. I am not saying that AC's clean, I'm just saying that with the clen leak they're being forced to deal with issues they would rather have total control over. As in 'under the carpet'.

With the increasing press on clen positives, and the increasing number of tainted meat claims, don't expect AC to get what he deserves. He might just have the luck to be riding the wave of AAF changes at WADA. H*ll, he had the luck to be the right age at the tail-end of LA's tenure...

 

[flicker]

I had a Mexican Rib Eye steak last night. delicious.
Wave as ya go past on your way to Cabo
Feliz Navidad

I do not mean to slam Mexican beef. I see the darn cattle out there in Baja with chollo cactus stuck to their faces and rumps. I don't see the Mexican natives even having feedlots. Everything I see is free range, the cattle live off brush weeds and cactus. We used to buy pork from the guys who worked out at the dumps, the pigs lived off the slop, nothing wrong with that,just doing things natural.

Clen in feed lots, how would that go.... lets see feed yo bull some clen and then fatten him up quick on grain at the feedlot and sell.... sounds expensive....still it seems like that would take a month for fattening, by then the clen would clear. I think when I am on vacation I will just catch my fish from the sea of Cortez, and augment my diet with some kid goat, goat meat rules!

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I do not mean to slam Mexican beef. I see the darn cattle out there in Baja with chollo cactus stuck to their faces and rumps. I don't see the Mexican natives even having feedlots. Everything I see is free range, the cattle live off brush weeds and cactus. We used to buy pork from the guys who worked out at the dumps, the pigs lived off the slop, nothing wrong with that,just doing things natural.

Clen in feed lots, how would that go.... lets see feed yo bull some clen and then fatten him up quick on grain at the feedlot and sell.... sounds expensive....still it seems like that would take a month for fattening, by then the clen would clear. I think when I am on vacation I will just catch my fish from the sea of Cortez, and augment my diet with some kid goat, goat meat rules!

You had me worried there for a minute. I thought you said '...some goat kid, kid meat rules!'.

 

[D-Queued]

The use of Contador blood for enhancing cow racing is the next big thing, particularly for Qatar,Dubai.

American bullriders might also be interested.

Kind of like the rationale when T.Boone Pickens bought Gulf Oil.

There was more value in what was inside the thing than the cost of adding more to the inventory.

Time to harvest?

Dave.

 

[BroDeal]

I blame WADA for not fixing the detectable limit level. The director of the Cologne lab has said that accidental positives are possible when testing for extremely small amounts. We have reports of widespread contamination in Mexico and China. Instead of being proactive, WADA waited until it became a problem.

The result is that the credibility of anti-doping has been damaged. At the super low detection levels, there will always be athletes claiming that it was contamination. There will be lots of people who believe them. And having athletes who were victims of a screw-job because they ate food in a place like Mexico reinforces people's beliefe that the system is not fair.

 

[Aguirre]

I blame WADA for not fixing the detectable limit level. The director of the Cologne lab has said that accidental positives are possible when testing for extremely small amounts. We have reports of widespread contamination in Mexico and China. Instead of being proactive, WADA waited until it became a problem.

The result is that the credibility of anti-doping has been damaged. At the super low detection levels, there will always be athletes claiming that it was contamination. There will be lots of people who believe them. And having athletes who were victims of a screw-job because they ate food in a place like Mexico reinforces people's beliefe that the system is not fair.

super agree with this. well done!

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

You will note that he only says "meat", not "beef".

Susan

thread title says "... Mex beef"
thread body says neither.
Anyway, it was a joke.

 

[python]

As Swordsman claims,

theswordsman only quoted (accurately) what contador's team said.

there are only four labs in the world with the improved testing methods. None of these is in Mexico, I guess.

correct. mexico does not even have a wada acc'ed lab. (there are only two wada labs in latin america - colombia and brasil)

the four clen-hypersensitive wada labs contador spoke about are: athens, beijing , dresden, cologne. source: cas

 

[Dimtick]

i think everyone needs to remember that there's a lot more to the Contador case than the tiny amount of Clen.
First there is the plasticizer that was detected that is an indication of a blood transfusion.
then there is the fact that European beef has been extensively tested (because of the Mad Cow scare) and that there were only a handful of positives of thousands of samples....none from Spain.
There is also the fact that WADA traced Contadors meat to the source butcher shop and from there to the original farm. there was extensive testing done on the cattle as well as the butcher meat which all came back negative.
I don't think that anyone beleives that Spanish farmers aren't going to try to sneak some things thru to increase their profits. WADA says that the cattle industry have learned to wait until the Clenbuterol is no longer detectable and has had the most benifit to the cow before the animal is slaughtered.

I also want to comment that I don't think that the anti-doping credibility is damaged by having such tiny detection levels and no set minimum. If anything I think that this exponentially boosts it because now people are being busted who otherwise would not be caught.

 

[scribe]

These guys need to start eating more beans and tofu.

they do. Along with Clen' to make leaner muscle mass.

 

[hrotha]

There is also the fact that WADA traced Contadors meat to the source butcher shop and from there to the original farm. there was extensive testing done on the cattle as well as the butcher meat which all came back negative.

Not sure about that one. Some claim WADA gathered and tested samples at the butcher's, which were negative. Contador's legal team says WADA did not do such thing. Has WADA actually said anything official about this?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

All these positives for tiny amounts bring me back to this quote from the head of WADA's Montreal Lab.

WADA regulations set no minimum threshold for the drug. Ayotte doesn't favor setting one as she considers any trace finding to be suspect.

"We can't link content in urine to performance, because we don't know the time, the mode of administration or the dose," she said. "If this case is lost because they're concluding the amount is too small, that would be a major problem. It's not the end of the world, but if competent arbitrators decide that, my heart would break. More dopers would go through the net."

http://espn.go.com/olympics/blog/_/name/olympics/id/5685675

She says "suspect", but in WADA terms, any trace is guilt, period. The guy who proved Mexican meat before still lost a year of his career. They would rather punish innocent people than let a cheater get away, even though guys get away with using things a lot more beneficial to their performance. Contador's level was forty times less than labs are required to detect. This one was even less. I don't know mountain biking - was this training at a time when a guy would be desperate enough to lose weight that he would use drugs?

They know that Clenbuterol is allowed and used in a lot of countries, and enters the normal food supply. With the Contador case, it was said that only four labs in the world could detect that amount. Imagine if all labs get that precise, and all the non-vegetarian athletes from those countries get banned?

If the minimum threshold was set at a reasonable level based on real life, a lot of these cases would never have happened. And Contador is actually the perfect case to show that, because they had clean urine samples from two days before and two days after the two days that had trace amounts. They know that he didn't use it during the Tour for performance. They can't prove he cheated in any way. The idea that a guy could ride 120 miles, including four or five major climbs, and decide he needed to pop a pill for a one day weight loss plan is ridiculous.

And they still punish people like the guy who got the year for eating Mexican meat, and they want to appeal the Otcharov case. All because people like the professor in Montreal decided not to make a minimum threshold because they believe suspicion should cost someone their results and two years of their career.

It's like a couple of years ago in the US when they discovered melanine in products from China, and they worked their way into our food supply through chickens and pigs, etc. I doubt that any of the 300 million of us intentionally ingested melanine, but I'll bet a lot of us would have had it in our system at some point.

Wait a second - she was never quoted as saying "suspect".

It was ESPN that put the word in there in a paragraph between 2 of Ayottes quotes:

"It's used in sports where they need to cut weight," she said. "Just because it's small doesn't mean it's not doping. ... This is just the dopers adjusting, or misadjusting, to the testing."

WADA regulations set no minimum threshold for the drug. Ayotte doesn't favor setting one as she considers any trace finding to be suspect.

"We can't link content in urine to performance, because we don't know the time, the mode of administration or the dose," she said. "If this case is lost because they're concluding the amount is too small, that would be a major problem. It's not the end of the world, but if competent arbitrators decide that, my heart would break. More dopers would go through the net."

Also - you mention clean tests the 2 days before and a couple of days after. Again only 10 samples in total were sent to Cologne so most of ACs samples would have come back Clen free as all other samples went to Lausanne.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Wait a second - she was never quoted as saying "suspect".

It was ESPN that put the word in there in a paragraph between 2 of Ayottes quotes:


Also - you mention clean tests the 2 days before and a couple of days after. Again only 10 samples in total were sent to Cologne so most of ACs samples would have come back Clen free as all other samples went to Lausanne.

Take it easy with the facts DR. your going to make the Contador fan base angry and they will draw swords, shoot pistols, and make reptilian sounds.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Questions

Review:
Clenbuterol does not occur naturally, so positives or Adverse Analytical Findings are damning.

Clenbuterol's purported uses are to speed recovery and get skinny. Both are of great interest to athletes. On the livestock side, it is used as a way to raise the amount of lean meat on the animal.

I think it's safe to say nations having well-regulated food supplies essentially ban the use of clen in livestock.

############
A study in a specific region of Mexico found 43 out of 50 animals had detectable amounts of clenbuterol. Only 7 had very low amounts. The six high-scoring animals were retested independently, all came back with similar results.

Don't make the intuitive leap about the Mexican beef industry that the rider in question might try to use. The best question is: is there similar research for the region he visited?

Here's a link to a 2008 report that sampled beef in a region of Mexico: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNHRDpzBNLr7D82xuKjLF_Nrlu_Qyw&cad=rja

The **critical** open issue that would better describe WADA's credibility is the rate of false negatives and false positives for the new high-precision test. I don't see these numbers reported.

I tend to believe that an athlete will do the clen simply because until very recently, the test did not have much precision.

Lastly, I predict a swift ejudication by the UCI on this one. He's no TdF winner.