Dutch Olympic Skaters have to be doping

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Feb 23, 2014
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The Dutch skaters get tested a lot because they also always do really well on EK's en WK's. Not ever has anyone of them tested positive. But it's not like their success comes out of the blue. They train really hard. Like for the men's persues they have trained for two years to try to win gold here in Sochi.
 
classicomano said:
What is of more importance is that in the last few years the competition dropped dramatically, many of the foreign stars retired and there was nobody to fill up the gap, except for more Dutch skaters. Besides, we are the only country that puts any serious money into the sport, all the foreigner are left to fend for themselves while the Dutch skaters have all the facilities they could wish for.
So then, why again are there so many medals at stake in this sport only 1 country seriously competes in? Why not make it a speed skating omnium or something?
 
Oct 23, 2011
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Samson777 said:
Okay, misunderstood then. My bad,

Anyway, of course it is not the best source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_in_the_Netherlands But wiki suggest it is: 1.Football 2. Field hockey. 3. Volleyball For team sports.

And Tennis, gymnastic, and Golf, when it comes to how many is active in a individual sport. But of course, this is not the same as being a mainstream popular sport, at all.

You have to make a distinction between two types of popularity though. There's a difference between how popular a sport is in the sense that many people watch it and the atheletes in the sport are famous and stuff like that on the one hand and a lot of people practicing it as amateurs and joining a local club and stuff like that on the other hand.

I'm not suprised Volleybal and Field Hockey score high as for popularity, if you look at how many people are part of local clubs and practice it as amateurs. But I never hear people talk about these sports, I never see games on TV and I don't know a single athlete in those sports. I know a lot of people playing it as amateurs though.

I do hear people talk a lot about skating, the world cups all get covered extensively on TV and everybody knows a number of the better skaters. I would argue for this type of popularity it's 1. Football 2. Skating and 3. maybe cycling. You can also see that when a sport like skating get's TV coverage, thus everybody knows the athlete's and there's money to be made, it's quite attractive to try to become a pro, if you're any good at it.

I would also argue there's another type of popularity, which is about a lot of people doing it sporadically without seriously practicing it as a sport or joining a local club. When we have a harsh winter and some lakes get frozen over, there's always a frenzy where everybody and their mother goes skating. If you see literally thousands of people going out in the cold to the middle of nowhere to go skating on some lake, you know it's a national sport. Every Dutch person learns skating like that as a kid, even though they never learn it well, they'll never join a club and they'll never practice it as a sport. :)

Anyway, football is definitely uncontested at the top of all types of popularity, though.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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sniper said:
the fact that the IOC maintains speed skating at the olympics suggests the Dutch have a strong lobby.
speed skating has become quite a farce.
it has nothing to do with the dutch having a strong lobby. it's just that the isu(also figure skating) is EXTREMELY powerful within the ioc. so speed skating will only expend or stay the same. the isu however are now trying to do anything after this olympics to change the sport
 
Mar 31, 2010
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Take a bit of your own advice.

Top skaters are millionaires and national heroes.
none of them are millionaires. not even sven kramer. however korean speed skaters are millionaires. they make a lot of money but someone like bergsma who tore kramer a new one is lucky to make 1000 euros a month. those are facts.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Clausfarre said:
Then I guess you would have had a chuckle if you had a chance to hear the Danish commentators talking endlessly about the wild popularity of skating in the Netherlands.

Whatever the case, the few who do are very dedicated and perhaps "dedicated". And it never hurts with some generous state funding which I suspect is plentyful.
what are you talking about? speed skating is a huge sport in the netherlands. it's far behind footbalol but probably 2nd with muay thai/kickboxing and in front of cycling
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Samson777 said:
Okay, misunderstood then. My bad,

Anyway, of course it is not the best source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_in_the_Netherlands But wiki suggest it is: 1.Football 2. Field hockey. 3. Volleyball For team sports.

And Tennis, gymnastic, and Golf, when it comes to how many is active in a individual sport. But of course, this is not the same as being a mainstream popular sport, at all.
that article like most of wiki is full of ****
 
Mar 31, 2010
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spalco said:
So then, why again are there so many medals at stake in this sport only 1 country seriously competes in? Why not make it a speed skating omnium or something?
because the isu is incredibly powerful within the ioc. the isu is to make changes. but speed skating won't be reduced. I'm sure they will cut the 10 km and replace it with mass start which is increidbly spectacular
 
user66 said:
They train really hard. Like for the men's persues they have trained for two years to try to win gold here in Sochi.
dopers can train too. In fact they can train harder because doping gives them better recovery so they can train harder. Which is why many of them dope in the first place and many of the most famous dopers only doped in training.

So please don't offer "they train hard" as an alternative to doping.
 
Jun 21, 2013
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Ryo Hazuki said:
none of them are millionaires. not even sven kramer. however korean speed skaters are millionaires. they make a lot of money but someone like bergsma who tore kramer a new one is lucky to make 1000 euros a month. those are facts.
Yeah wright... facts?
Kramer earned more than 1.2 million euro in 2010. In 2012 he signed a new contract for probably more than 1 million a year.
What facts are you talking about?
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Ryo Hazuki said:
none of them are millionaires. not even sven kramer. however korean speed skaters are millionaires. they make a lot of money but someone like bergsma who tore kramer a new one is lucky to make 1000 euros a month. those are facts.
I'm not even sure why you're commenting.

You obviously have absolutely NO clue what you're talking about...
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Dutch dont do doping, and when they do they dont get caught, they are the most tested athletes on the planet.

Oh wait.

To be fair, Canada is gone[except Danny Morrison], Germany is gone, Norway is gone, Russia is gone, USA didnt even come to the Olympics it looked like, not to mention South Korea and Japan on the sprints.

What it is? Better funding ;)

The total wipe out on the 500 for men was mindboggling though.
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
they will cut the 10 km and replace it with mass start which is increidbly spectacular
I tried watching a mass start once, I think I fell asleep since I can't remember who won. I'm sure it was exciting in the last few laps when they probably didn't skate like 80 year old men, but I didn't manage to stay awake that long.

The level of some countries is just laughable these days, Norway didn't even manage to put one guy on the start list of the 10 km and all the young people would rather do xc skiing. I guess it's the same situation in a lot of other countries, having a single guy at a decent level training on his own without much competition on the team doesn't help.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Ryo Hazuki said:
it has nothing to do with the dutch having a strong lobby. it's just that the isu(also figure skating) is EXTREMELY powerful within the ioc. so speed skating will only expend or stay the same. the isu however are now trying to do anything after this olympics to change the sport
tanx, didn't know that.

something must indeed change.
the dutch dominance was irritating/farcical, as was the cheering about it in the netherlands and dutch press.
 
sniper said:
tanx, didn't know that.

something must indeed change.
the dutch dominance was irritating/farcical, as was the cheering about it in the netherlands and dutch press.
It's strange, I think for some participants, Austria especially, but surely also Switzerland, maybe France, Germany, Italy, Slovenia to some extent, winning medals is at least as much about tourism PR as about patriotic prestige. I remember years when Austria dominated Alpine skiing to such an extent that there were concerns that other countries might lose interest (which sounds incredibly arrogant now, but is an opinion that was voiced; Switzerland had similar periods of extreme dominance too), which in turn was implied to possibly leading to less relevant commercials about how awesome Austrian mountains are.

That matters less to the Netherlands, and if the Skating Federation is as powerful as Ryo says, it's not a concern in the short term, and great for the Netherlands to have such a successful Olympics, but if this happens in 2018 again and then 2022?
Not sure what the Dutch could do about that though reasonably, lend coaches to other countries? Actually I don't know where I'm going with this at all. but now that I've written it I don't just want to cancel it. ;)

Can anyone think of examples where a sport's prestige significantly diminished due to a single country's dominance?
 
May 11, 2009
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The Netherlands beat out the rest of the competition at this years Olympics.

But years ago the USA men and women dominated the sport (many also being cyclists). Eric Heiden, for example, won five Olympic Gold medals and was a seven time world champion in speed skating.

I wonder if the Netherlands has better skater support program than other nations.

Here is how Russian Snowboarder Viv Wild is treated in Russia compared to the USA http://www.denverpost.com/olympics/ci_25207732/vic-wilds-gold-ring-leads-two-gold-medals
 
In Norway it was viewed as a bit of a disaster the way our skaters did at the olympics.
Our main guy Bøkko, was completely without a chance. The problem though, is that it wasn't really because the dutch were unbeatable, it's more that he himself has stagnated, and although trying to train specificly for the 1500m, is unable to get any better at it. In the long distance races we are far from good enough.

But it tells something about the sport when our next best skater SLP is a very young guy that has not been training that long for an olympic athlete. Still, he is basicly at the same level, or already passing Bøkko.

I'd say the dominance of the dutch is bad for the sport, and could indicate doping, but being the only country with pro teams can also give you that kind of dominance, it does not have to be doping.
 
Feb 3, 2013
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It's the same with any nation dominating in any sport. Having a combination of knowledge, money, large talent pool, competition and of-course the latest and greatest in doping products while knowing how to use them without getting caught.

Nobody questions why the American basketball team wins the gold at (nearly) every Olympics. Or why the Chinese win every medal at ping-pong. It's the same for the Dutch and speedskating.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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iejeecee said:
Nobody questions why the American basketball team wins the gold at (nearly) every Olympics. Or why the Chinese win every medal at ping-pong. It's the same for the Dutch and speedskating.
Except when they've been beaten by Americans, Canadians, Italians, Germans, Swedes, Russians, Koreans, Norwegians or Fins (just to name a few)?
 
Feb 3, 2013
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Granville57 said:
Except when they've been beaten by Americans, Canadians, Italians, Germans, Swedes, Russians, Koreans, Norwegians or Fins (just to name a few)?
Your point being?
 
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