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Maxiton said:As stated, though, the room is dark and we don't know what all the factors are in their decision to manipulate these results. I hope this comes to the attention of some E.U. regulators.
BotanyBay said:It's called "being coy"
Barrus said:I said keep the thread serious
Barrus said:I said keep the thread serious
BotanyBay said:Or do we have a rogue operator?
jimmypop said:Just go to Google, type in "Lance Armstrong", click "news", and look at the results. Because I claim to know a bit about how those results are formed, I'll also claim that they appear a bit managed, given the traffic and links we've seen over the past 14 days.
VeloFidelis said:I doan theen dat word means what you theen it means.
coy/koi/Adjective
1. (esp. of a woman) Making a pretense of shyness or modesty that is intended to be alluring but is often regarded as irritating.
DirtyWorks said:I absolutely agree that results are managed. But care must be taken to distinguish between a search process that generically biases news and one that biases a specific target, WonderBoy.
Is there a bias in Google's news? Absolutely. It treats each appearance of syndicated content as distinct when in fact, it's the same article vaguely repurposed.
Is there a customized bias for Wonderboy? That's hard to answer. Good question, but we need ways to collect facts on it. I can scrape content all day, but how to test the collected results?
I have my doubts about a former Wonderboy associate at google customizing search results. First and foremost, Google is a big company and I don't see how it would work inside the company. Second, the search ranking process may have manual hooks, but some targeting a blog critical of WonderBoy would be pretty amazing.
I would argue Wonderboy doesn't need a mole. Some exec would probably take Wonderboy's call and use the relationship to elevate his status at Google. The mole thing is fun, but complicated and therefore unlikely.
I don't doubt the claims about someone from Team Pharmstrong visiting his site. I doubt his last post that suggests google is watching. It's called surfing the net at work. I have lots more interesting addresses than just a Google-owned IP in my logs.
jimmypop said:Just go to Google, type in "Lance Armstrong", click "news", and look at the results. Because I claim to know a bit about how those results are formed, I'll also claim that they appear a bit managed, given the traffic and links we've seen over the past 14 days.
DirtyWorks said:I absolutely agree that results are managed. But care must be taken to distinguish between a search process that generically biases news and one that biases a specific target, WonderBoy.
That's not bias; that's search algorithms not yet attuned sufficiently to prevent repetition (assuming preventing repetition would be seen as desirable).Is there a bias in Google's news? Absolutely. It treats each appearance of syndicated content as distinct when in fact, it's the same article vaguely repurposed.
There is, plainly, apparent bias. It is why we are having this discussion. We don't need a test to determine that. What we need to determine is how the bias comes about, or conversely how it's explained by Google if it isn't there by plan.Is there a customized bias for Wonderboy? That's hard to answer. Good question, but we need ways to collect facts on it. I can scrape content all day, but how to test the collected results?
Google is full of amazing intellects doing amazing things - that's why we use them, after all. I would be surprised if they were incapable of manipulating search results to favor or disfavor certain sites.I have my doubts about a former Wonderboy associate at google customizing search results. First and foremost, Google is a big company and I don't see how it would work inside the company. Second, the search ranking process may have manual hooks, but some targeting a blog critical of WonderBoy would be pretty amazing.
Maybe that's it; but isn't that effectively the same thing as a mole? And in any case, for all we know there may be an entire management team behind this. Heck, it could even be an agenda item at a board of directors meeting, for all we know.I would argue Wonderboy doesn't need a mole. Some exec would probably take Wonderboy's call and use the relationship to elevate his status at Google. The mole thing is fun, but complicated and therefore unlikely.
Given all the other stuff he mentions, though - putting it in context, in other words - it does begin to quack like a duck, does it not?I don't doubt the claims about someone from Team Pharmstrong visiting his site. I doubt his last post that suggests google is watching. It's called surfing the net at work. I have lots more interesting addresses than just a Google-owned IP in my logs.
goober said:Not very strong claims to know a "bit" and "appear". Admit you know little.
Scott SoCal said:Yet, the accusation of search manipulation is not new.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30684_3-20015601-265.html
BotanyBay said:Just like they can assist the police by keeping track of certain searches like "naked little boys", they most certainly have some kind of dashboard that lets them interfere or manipulate (if needed). The question is: "Who has the keys to the dashboard?"
I'm just saying... We have manipulated results, an insider connection, a person with an interest in manipulating results and an injured party. We also have a news item that BOOMED around the internet, and it didn't register in the Google News results. Two separate incidents of "hmmm" and a common connection between the company and the one with something to gain.
jimmypop said:As much as I despise all things SEO, let's not downplay the potential for manipulation by a third party.
DirtyWorks said:Scott,
I'm not saying it's not done. It was well documented that Linux searches were weirdly biased in Microsoft's Bing too.
I'm saying the mole allegation is very unlikely.
I also have doubts about a single blogger's site being the target of attention at Google. That make Team Pharmstrong out to be much more powerful than a few felons with money. I just don't see it.
DirtyWorks said:I also have doubts about a single blogger's site being the target of attention at Google.
Agreed. One way would be to collect data and compare results. But, compare how?Maxiton said:What we need to determine is how the bias comes about, or conversely how it's explained by Google if it isn't there by plan.
The complexity would be enormous. Smart people can do many things, but put many of them together and their output isn't collectively better. So, stick a small team on the task. Now what? Every special request they get would open the door for the next special request that would need a new exception and more complexity.Maxiton said:Google is full of amazing intellects doing amazing things - that's why we use them, after all. I would be surprised if they were incapable of manipulating search results to favor or disfavor certain sites.
Maxiton said:Given all the other stuff he mentions, though - putting it in context, in other words - it does begin to quack like a duck, does it not?
BotanyBay said:Lance has millions of fans. Yet this simple blog was the target of attention at CSE. So why would you doubt it could then be referred to a friend at Google?
Well someone is watching - this is from last year, over the use of a t-shirt.DirtyWorks said:Scott,
I'm not saying it's not done. It was well documented that Linux searches were weirdly biased in Microsoft's Bing too.
I'm saying the mole allegation is very unlikely.
I also have doubts about a single blogger's site being the target of attention at Google. That make Team Pharmstrong out to be much more powerful than a few felons with money. I just don't see it.
From:
To: xxxxxxx@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:46:21 -0600
Subject: LambStrong Shirts
Hello Mr. Wilson,
My name is Joseph Halbert, and I am an intern at LIVESTRONG headquarters in Austin, Texas. We are interested in learning more about your LambStrong shirts, as they seem to have become an internet phenomenon. In particular, we are interested in their origin and purpose. Any information you can provide would be helpful and appreciated.
Regards,
Joseph
JOSEPH HALBERT
Legal Intern
LIVESTRONG
p 512.236.8820 Ext. 2020
f 512.236.8482
http://www.livestrong.org
So Mr Halbert I hope the above post goes some way of answering you question of what and where LAMBSTRONG originated. Don't worry we are not obsessed with world domination like Lance is, we won't be running against him for governor of TEXAS or President of the U S of A. You are welcome to him and we definitely don't claim to be the cure to cancer we are just a bunch of cycling obsessed fans using out finely tuned English sense of humour to poke fun at your constant desire for control and megalomania.
King Regards
Simon (LAMBSTRONG) Lamb
Dr. Maserati said:Well someone is watching - this is from last year, over the use of a t-shirt.