E3 Saxo Classic 2025, one day classic, March 28

[Blanco]

Sagan has like triple the palmares. He will be remembered by cycling history in 50 years for his world titles and green jerseys, if Van Aert will be remembered at all it will only be as a foil to Van der Poel.

Or a great domestique for Roglic and Vingegaard...

 

[zlev11]

cycling feels like it's fixed or something now. why does anyone ride with Van der Poel in a race like this? remember how Sagan and Cancellara got completely marked out of races? why does nobody do that to him?

 

[Blanco]

In 2022 he was hanging on for dear life and he made it.

You mean when they sprinted H2H and Van Der Poel made him finish 4th!?

 

[Gratemans]

cycling feels like it's fixed or something now. why does anyone ride with Van der Poel in a race like this? remember how Sagan and Cancellara got completely marked out of races? why does nobody do that to him?

Yup. And many others said it in this thread as well. Mads has been doing this for years now, surely by now he should have learned? I can only conclude that he just likes to be on a podium, and doesn't give a rats behind if it isn't the top spot.
Seems like it's contagious though: Ganna caught the bug as well.

I mean I'm a big fan of Mathieu, but I was puzzled yet again by how others (didn't) ride against him.

 

[jono]

Would Ganna and Pedersen have had better results today if they didn't work with MVDP, let the group catch up, and see how things play out from there?

 

[danielzu]

Imagine the bunch would have been 10 seconds faster. Teunissen would probably be fourth and fedorov in the top 10. This would have been around 200 points more for vinos guys, and maybe 80 less for cofidis

 

[jono]

Indeed. His last ascent when he dropped Mathieu is in the edit of my post. Around 3 minutes the cobbles.

Coming back to this. Pogi's PR up the Kwaremont cobbles segment of 3:00 is actually from his second passage of the climb in 2023. The third time up, when he dropped MVDP, he rode 7 seconds slower at 3:07.

Mathieu rode the segment in approximately 3:00 or 3:01 today (no exact time because he no longer uploads to Strava) but a shorter and much different race, of course, and they only climbed Oude Kwaremont once.

 

[scribers]

Would Ganna and Pedersen have had better results today if they didn't work with MVDP, let the group catch up, and see how things play out from there?

Pedersen effectively isolated himself with his primary challenger by attacking. And paid for it up the road. Hindsight has benefits, but he has to know mvp is on a different level then himself.

 

[Gratemans]

Pedersen effectively isolated himself with his primary challenger by attacking. And paid for it up the road. Hindsight has benefits, but he has to know mvp is on a different level then himself.

This. And usually, I would say "yeah, we all got hindsight. he didn't know it at the time".

Well, by now he has ridden quite a few races with Mathieu over the years. So I think we're all allowed to ask Mads: "wtf were you doing!?"
I mean, I've always loved the guy, but over the past few years, he hasn't really shown any intelligent racing to put it mildly. I would love for him to win a monument, but he just keeps pulling when he shouldn't, and it doesn't seem like anybody can get him to do otherwise.

 

[E_F_]

What a horrible race... Why did I watch that? When will they learn not to give MvdP an inch? (Never is the answer, I know). What a waste of time, man.

 

[Andy262]

Just read the thread. Best summarised as: Come back Simon Gerrans, all is forgiven.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

cycling feels like it's fixed or something now. why does anyone ride with Van der Poel in a race like this? remember how Sagan and Cancellara got completely marked out of races? why does nobody do that to him?

I think it’s fair to say that this generation of riders and DSs is possibly the least intelligent we’ve ever seen.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I think it’s fair to say that this generation of riders and DSs is possibly the least intelligent we’ve ever seen.

You aren't wrong...

 

[Red Rick]

I think it’s fair to say that this generation of riders and DSs is possibly the least intelligent we’ve ever seen.

You aren't wrong...

Meanwhile Van der Poel is complaining big time about a lack of solidarity in the peloton after they somewhat pulled when he missed a split.

The guy would have had an aneurysm racing in Sagan's era when everyone would just triple team Sagan.

 

[Heston]

For real, you have to wonder how many monuments Sagan would have won if his competitors rode the same way VdP's competitors do. Everyone ganged up on Sagan in so many races, whereas the likes of Mads Pedersen are happy to help VdP to victory.

 

[Salvarani]

They've massacred my boy.

Look what they did to my boy

 

[Mayomaniac]

For real, you have to wonder how many monuments Sagan would have won if his competitors rode the same way VdP's competitors do. Everyone ganged up on Sagan in so many races, whereas the likes of Mads Pedersen are happy to help VdP to victory.

If Trek and Jumbo actually played the numbers game they could put him in trouble and make him loose.

 

[Brullnux]

If Trek and Jumbo actually played the numbers game they could put him in trouble and make him loose.

The one time Trek did that they won

 

[Red Rick]

I'd actually blame cycling media and overall discourse a little bit. There's basically 0 expectation from anyone to beat these guys, so there's alos 0 criticism any time they don't do anything to win. Instead you just get people praising Ganna for 'riding like a champion' after he smashes his own windows in Sanremo for example.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

I'd actually blame cycling media and overall discourse a little bit. There's basically 0 expectation from anyone to beat these guys, so there's alos 0 criticism any time they don't do anything to win. Instead you just get people praising Ganna for 'riding like a champion' after he smashes his own windows in Sanremo for example.

The cycling media has always refused to do anything other than hype up whatever is happening, as much as that's a problem it doesn't make sense to blame the woes of this era on something that's unchanged from previous eras.

 

[Brullnux]

If Trek and Jumbo actually played the numbers game they could put him in trouble and make him loose.

That said, I think Trek were right to treat E3 as a test of Mads v MvdP. E3 isn't the main goal of the season, and to work out exactly how far behind you are vis a vis MvdP is a good use of the race. If they repeat this at Flanders and Roubaix I'll be frustrated, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now as they did do very well at GW last year, before then having half their team crash at Dwars and scuppered for Flanders.

 

[Balthazar]

I'd actually blame cycling media and overall discourse a little bit. There's basically 0 expectation from anyone to beat these guys, so there's alos 0 criticism any time they don't do anything to win. Instead you just get people praising Ganna for 'riding like a champion' after he smashes his own windows in Sanremo for example.

I get your point that some teams could try something different and I think more will try and anticipate at the RVV but that also just ends up making the race harder. When the favorites make their move there are no teamtactics or wheelsucking that is going to help you, everybody is just destroyed and hanging on. Tactics play a minor role in the Flemish classics, especially when you have guys that are just stronger.

Some examples to illustrate the strength of the top riders:
KOM for Pedersen, MvdP, and Ganna on Taaienberg (and its run-off): 2'13''
And KOM equaled by MvdP on the cobbled section of Oude Kwaremont: 2'59''
(Timing may vary by a second – Pogacar did 3'00'' in 2023)

Cobblestone (semi-)classics since 2000 in which a maximum of 2 riders finished within 2 minutes ⏱️ (including the winner):

• Paris-Roubaix 2002 (🥇 @johanmuseeuw)
• Paris-Roubaix 2024 (🥇 @mathieuvdpoel)
• E3SaxoClassic 2025 (🥇 MvdP & Pedersen)

 

[Pozzovivo]

We continue to talk about riders never learning from their mistakes (of working with Van der Poel & Pogi), but we also never learn from our mistakes. We still analyze the race from the "riders are trying to win" point of view. Sure riders WANT to win, but they actually ride for top placings (whether podium or top 5-10 depending on the rider). Very few ride for the WIN in the sense that they don't care about getting podium or top 5-10. In my opinion, ONLY Pogacar and MVDP actually ride for the WIN as if podiums were worthless.

It is severly undercommunicated how important good results are for almost all ot of the riders and teams. It is very apparent that a good results is what most teams race for. If all teams and riders (or even the majority) rode for the win, races would look completely different.

 

[Mayomaniac]

That said, I think Trek were right to treat E3 as a test of Mads v MvdP. E3 isn't the main goal of the season, and to work out exactly how far behind you are vis a vis MvdP is a good use of the race. If they repeat this at Flanders and Roubaix I'll be frustrated, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now as they did do very well at GW last year, before then having half their team crash at Dwars and scuppered for Flanders.

But then they chased down the dangerous move by Küng and Politt in Paris-Roubaix helping vdP(after Milan had crashed out and with a returning Pedersen being w big question mark).

 

[Panda Claws]

When it comes to Sagan I don't recall that many monuments where he was so much better than the field as Mathieu is. I don't think he ever had the same punch uphill nor the same TT capability to do solos as Mathieu has shown. He was also plagued by question marks about his 250k+ stamina throughout his career.

Sure there was more wheelsucking but Sagan simply wasn't the classics rider that Van der Poel is and wouldn't have rivaled him on neither a Poggio nor an Oude Kwaremont.

Sagan mostly suffered from this cause he couldn't actually distance all of his rivals. Cancellara sometimes could but was easier to mark overall due to his weaker sprint.

When it comes to Sagan specifically it's notable that Kristoff, Degenkolb, Terpstra and old man Gilbert managed to win multiple monuments during his reign.

If Van der Poel hadn't been there and WvA was the premier cobble star than perhaps he might have been marked out as Sagan was due to not being able to distance everyone well enough.