Early season races: how important are they to GT success?

[42x16ss]

On the other hand, Landis won Paris-Nice in’06, Contador in ‘07 and ‘10, Evans won Tirreno-Adriatico in ‘11, Nibali in 12,13, Contador in ‘14 Quintana in ‘15 and ‘17 and Rodriguez won Catalunya in ‘10 and ‘14, Scarponi in ‘11, Quintana in ‘16.

So it’s probably not essential, but recently it seems to be an indicator of who laid a proper platform for the rest of the year.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Early season races: how important are they to GT success

what bad luck STOP IT!!! he didn't have it in the stage of mur de huy

He saw Bonnet crash and almost die in front of him...how do you call that? Your comment is off-topic anyways...

no and no... stop with that BS of bonnet almost dying, that is not true

You;re a troll. Do some research before you write...BS. Not to say that Pinot would have won or podiumed the '15 TdF, but his buildup was optimal, week one went bad but he was strong the rest of the way. That was my point and you missed it . That's the topic...the topic that you disrespect by not contributing, just trolling in it. As I have stated many times, we can agree to disagree. Stop trolling and start contributing. It's a very interesting discussion: what is the best way to buildup, maximize, is it training, racing, how much?

 

[Koronin]

Definitely an interesting discussion. I the biggest thing we're proving is that is really depends on the specific rider and that probably takes a couple of years to figure out. There are blueprints but each rider is different.

 

[Red Rick]

So we've discussed the importance of these races a bit in the buildup toward a GT, but I've been thinking a bit of how they affect the GT doubles. I'm starting to think that part of the hardship of the Giro/Tour double isn't necessarily only that the Giro is harder and all that stuff, but also that the build up toward the Giro always has less racing than the Tour, and I think that has a part in how hard it is to maintain form after the Giro.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

So we've discussed the importance of these races a bit in the buildup toward a GT, but I've been thinking a bit of how they affect the GT doubles. I'm starting to think that part of the hardship of the Giro/Tour double isn't necessarily only that the Giro is harder and all that stuff, but also that the build up toward the Giro always has less racing than the Tour, and I think that has a part in how hard it is to maintain form after the Giro.

These days peaking twice per year for GTs is very difficult. The Giro/Vuelta because of the time in between is the best chance of doubling and many riders seem to win one and podium the other. What Froome did was kinda freakish. Either he is that much better than his rivals over three weeks with a superior team or his rivals re Nibali who did not look like himself in the Giro and never really threatened in the Vuelta have deteriorated. What confuses the issue even more is that Contador also rode the Tour and did better than most of the Giro/Vuelta riders in Spain. Being his last GT and home one obviously motivated Contador. And maybe Contador once his podium chances were gone in the Tour was also riding with the Vuelta in mind. And it seemed that teams were sick of responding to Contador's attacks and Froome had time up his sleeve in the Vuelta.

To me Froome struggled in the Tour but still managed to ride a strong Vuelta. Maybe Froome was riding much more conservatively in the Tour than he looked, knowing that the final TT would be no threat from Bardet and Uran was basically riding for a podium and was controlled even though the time gap was never that big on GC until the final TT. Quintana's performance in the Tour shows how hard it is to perform in the Giro/Tour and I still don't expect anyone to win both in the modern era. Maybe's Froome's Tour ride was a very calculating one and his ride in the Dauphine, untypical of previous performances in the same race, looked ordinary. Froome was probably preparing to peak in the third week of the Tour but it still doesn't explain how he held form in the Vuelta. Easily the performance of the year.

A riskier approach to the double, maybe knowing he was making the Tour harder for himself after narrowly missing out on the double the season before, paid off. It seems that Quintana tried a similar approach in the Giro/Tour attempt but being the hardest of the double attempts, even if he had won the Giro over Dumoulin, showed the effects of fatigue in the Tour especially in the second half of the race where he faded badly. The main risk with the double is in targeting two GTs. It's easy to wind up winning neither. The temptation to go into the first race on a lighter preparation could easily backfire. Froome showed signs of that in the Tour but his team made a huge difference and he looked better in the final week. While Quintana couldn't find the margins in the mountains that he needed to to defeat Dumoulin.

 

[toolittle]

Re: Re:

So we've discussed the importance of these races a bit in the buildup toward a GT, but I've been thinking a bit of how they affect the GT doubles. I'm starting to think that part of the hardship of the Giro/Tour double isn't necessarily only that the Giro is harder and all that stuff, but also that the build up toward the Giro always has less racing than the Tour, and I think that has a part in how hard it is to maintain form after the Giro.

These days peaking twice per year for GTs is very difficult. The Giro/Vuelta because of the time in between is the best chance of doubling and many riders seem to win one and podium the other. What Froome did was kinda freakish. Either he is that much better than his rivals over three weeks with a superior team or his rivals re Nibali who did not look like himself in the Giro and never really threatened in the Vuelta have deteriorated. What confuses the issue even more is that Contador also rode the Tour and did better than most of the Giro/Vuelta riders in Spain. Being his last GT and home one obviously motivated Contador. And maybe Contador once his podium chances were gone in the Tour was also riding with the Vuelta in mind. And it seemed that teams were sick of responding to Contador's attacks and Froome had time up his sleeve in the Vuelta.

To me Froome struggled in the Tour but still managed to ride a strong Vuelta. Maybe Froome was riding much more conservatively in the Tour than he looked, knowing that the final TT would be no threat from Bardet and Uran was basically riding for a podium and was controlled even though the time gap was never that big on GC until the final TT. Quintana's performance in the Tour shows how hard it is to perform in the Giro/Tour and I still don't expect anyone to win both in the modern era. Maybe's Froome's Tour ride was a very calculating one and his ride in the Dauphine, untypical of previous performances in the same race, looked ordinary. Froome was probably preparing to peak in the third week of the Tour but it still doesn't explain how he held form in the Vuelta. Easily the performance of the year.

A riskier approach to the double, maybe knowing he was making the Tour harder for himself after narrowly missing out on the double the season before, paid off. It seems that Quintana tried a similar approach in the Giro/Tour attempt but being the hardest of the double attempts, even if he had won the Giro over Dumoulin, showed the effects of fatigue in the Tour especially in the second half of the race where he faded badly. The main risk with the double is in targeting two GTs. It's easy to wind up winning neither. The temptation to go into the first race on a lighter preparation could easily backfire. Froome showed signs of that in the Tour but his team made a huge difference and he looked better in the final week. While Quintana couldn't find the margins in the mountains that he needed to to defeat Dumoulin.

As far as I know, it is possible to win Giro/Tour double, of course it won't be easy.

We assume that TDF has higher intensity of competetion. (It is the case).
The winner is a level higher than others. He could use a training form to enter Giro and win it. During the Giro, he cannot go to too deep which might affect his preparation for TDF.
That is, a training form and training race but win Giro.

Or enter giro with form of life. No one could touch him and hence it is an easy win. Then, Go to the tour. Athough form dropped and fatigue there, he is still could mange to best others.

Possible, there were Usain Bolt and Michael jordon...

 

[toolittle]

Re: Re:

Familiarize with the routes is very important when every second counts.