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Eva Maria said:USDA and WADA only had jurisdiction during the last 7 months of Armstrongs career. USA Cycling only tested him 1-2 times per year, if that.
There is really only one governing body to point the finger at, the UCI. Considering they took a $500,000 "Donation" soon after his cortisone positive many would be right to question them.
workingclasshero said:i wouldn't waste any more energy if i were you eva
What are the relation between French Sport Ministry and ASO a private company?gree0232 said:Yeah, the French Sports Ministry NEVER talks to ASO.
Read the INDEPENDANT Dutch report and then get back to me.
You are cherry picking results, avoiding anything that is critical of those accusing Lance and doing after the fact searching to justify your opinions.
One interview does not equate to 'proof'. When an indpendant body comes in and says and independant commission should look into this for disciplinary actions .... Yeah, I would bet that LNDD would want to counter such a report. Interesting that they have not invited such a comission in to take a look.
Eva Maria said:It would not have to be overreaching, It could be as small as advanced warning of OOC testing, something that Manzano has said that both USPS and Kelme had. Silvia Schnek, UCI board member, confirmed this.
The reality is the UCI is incompetent. There unwillingness to even address the issue until WADA came on the scene helped more then any testing hurt.
ThisFrenchGuy said:Telekom in 97? Agreed Ullrich was maybe not seen as a contender at the beginning of the race, but it didn't take long.
I asked in another thread if someone had recollections about the reporting at the time.
Scott SoCal said:Your accusations (and conclusions) are incredibly cynical.
Eva Maria said:Ridiculous. This is bike racing, not Watergate. While L'Equipe was off on the timing the important part of the story, that more positives were coming shortly, was correct. I heard about the TT story from people that were at the stage is good enough for me. The story has now been reported in most countries in Europe, with no dispute from the Hog or Armstrong.
You are free to split hairs but it just makes you look foolish. You want a "Standard" but believe every BS tweet and press release from Armstrong like it is fact? What you really want is that the myth is not questioned.
gree0232 said:Yeah, Floyd Landis.
Lance's 1999 EPO 'positive', that an independant Dutch investigation slammed WADA, not Lance, for.
Lance's 1999 'positive' for cortisone, which was slightly elevated, but within allowable limits and the result of treatment for a saddle sore (which you do tend to get when you ride in the rain). So sayth the ASO, and UCI during the race no less!
Tyler Hamilton, Rumndus Rumsas, Ivan Basso, Jan Ullrich, Iban Mayo ....
The most recent example? Showergate, where an completely superfluous memorandum requesting permission from the UCI for something they didn't need permission for was leaked to, you guessed it, L'Equip.
Like I said, when I see such generalized comments as, "Lance is a liar," with no specificity coupled with "L'Equip is the greatest sporting news source in the world," I see the cherry picking of facts.
Since 1999, Lance has been repeatedly accussed of doping, he been probbed, tested, investigated and brought several of these cases to court where EVERY SINGLE TIME, Lance has emerged vindicated.
If after ten years you cannot convict someone of somthing, and WADA wound up deeply embarassing itself relating to the 1999 EPO 'positive', then a guy is innocent.
Lance may not be a nice guy, but I get a little tired of the 'Where there is smoke there is fire' mentality that the French establishment absolutely loves and has long exploited. Why do you think the head of Formula One, during the middle of a dispute regarding the future of that sport, had pictures released of him with prostitutes in Nazi garb suddenly splashed into the International Press?
Nothing going on there, someone was clearly doing something regarding just their personal 'integrity'.
Lance may very well have lied on occassion, but certainly not because L'Equip is the standard for journalistic integrity and excellence. However, in L'Equip's defense, they do give you a good snap shot into the often shadowy world of sports ministries.
You just need to be aware that there is a LOT of politics involved in agencies like the IOC, UCI, ASO, etc. Each of thos organizations has agendas and leaders with strong egos. If you think things are clean and professional, please look at the fight between the UCI and ASO regarding the Pro-Tour.
Then ask Team Uni-bet if they would like to ride next year's tour ....
Carboncrank said:If Astana stranded Alberto it would be extraordinary.
Claiming they did is an extraordinary claim.
Extraordinary claims should be held to extraordinary proofs.
The single unsoursed article is even less than ordinary.
All I want is for your vitriol to be reality based.
ThisFrenchGuy said:What does the French political elite have to do with it?![]()
ThisFrenchGuy said:What was the beginning on this argument again about newspapers, a translation?
ThisFrenchGuy said:And sources can be anonymous. For a journalist to be able to protect its sources is a very important point, and that means sometimes keeping them confidential.
poupou said:What are the relation between French Sport Ministry and ASO a private company?
INDEPENDANT ? Vrijman is a dutch lawyer like Verbruggen, and they are close friend too. How could you have an independant investigation.
Vrijman, as lawyer, forgot to ask an authorization requested by french laws to visit LNDD. Why did he mention that he was refused to visit when it's was his own fault?
Maybe you should read the WADA rebuttal of his report. You can find it on WADA website.
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/newsarticle.ch2?articleId=3115718
About the $500.000 of Lance : http://www.playthegame.org/uploads/media/Michael_Ashenden-Can_curruption_derail_the_testing_syst.pdf
from the last international sport conference : play the game
gree0232 said:Well, in the interest of both sides, you should post Lance's rebuttal to the WADA rebuttal as well.
I find it troubling that one side is missing from the account.
As for relations between ASO and the French Sports Ministry, they clearly were involved in last year's tour were the FRENCH national doping agency conducted the testing in lieu of the UCI.
The extent to which these contacts take place is unknown. The idea that the French Sporting Body is completely disinterested in ASO and the TdF is kinda silly.
Now, what this has to do with Eki's comments? Not sure.
I will say, Lance seems to have earned the loyalty of at least one team mate, and that such loyalty is usually not built on a foundation of lies and money. Usually, such loyalty dries up when the money does or when public pressure gets to hot.
Lance has been retired for four years (no money going to Eki these past few years), and Lance has been in hot water for a long time. Yet he still has loyal friends. Yet HIS team still survives.
gree0232 said:Well, in the interest of both sides, you should post Lance's rebuttal to the WADA rebuttal as well.
I find it troubling that one side is missing from the account.
The ALFD is not part of the "French Sports Ministry" it is independent. Doping is a criminal offense in France. The AFLD can investigate and prosecute doping offenses in the French criminal system.gree0232 said:As for relations between ASO and the French Sports Ministry, they clearly were involved in last year's tour were the FRENCH national doping agency conducted the testing in lieu of the UCI.
pmcg76 said:Ditto for you as well
So you are directly quoting Lance now, as you say we also need proof that AC was a bad team-mate, one mistimed attack dont make a bad team-mate as I pointed out earlier. Having frineds of Lance who were not at the Tour with Astana stating AC is a bad team-mate does not count as proof either. Highly, highly biased.
Again, the quotes from Zubeldia saying AC thanked his team-mates is the closest we have to a neutral opinion. I honestly dont know if Zubeldia is pro-Lance or pro-AC or just neutral. I am not backing up the article in El Pais because it is a story, myth at the moment. that is it. No quotes or anything.
In summary, we have Lance and his non-present friends saying AC is a bad team-mate and we have an actual team-mate saying AC thanked his ream-mated for their help. The conclusion on this should be obvious but I dont expect it will.
Eva Maria said:Lance did give his side during many interviews at the time. He said the samples were tampered with, despite no evidence and limited possibility. It was all part of a grand French conspiracy.
The ALFD is not part of the "French Sports Ministry" it is independent. Doping is a criminal offense in France. The AFLD can investigate and prosecute doping offenses in the French criminal system.
It is clear you have little knowledge on this subject. If you will wish to continue to embarrass yourself as least start a thread in the proper forum
Scott SoCal said:Your accusations (and conclusions) are incredibly cynical.
Eva Maria said:Lance did give his side during many interviews at the time. He said the samples were tampered with, despite no evidence and limited possibility. It was all part of a grand French conspiracy.
The ALFD is not part of the "French Sports Ministry" it is independent. Doping is a criminal offense in France. The AFLD can investigate and prosecute doping offenses in the French criminal system.
It is clear you have little knowledge on this subject. If you will wish to continue to embarrass yourself as least start a thread in the proper forum
Carboncrank said:I don't hate Contador. I'm not going to start with a dislike for him and look at every little thing he does in a bad light. I would never think Alberto would be so crass and vulgar as to not thank the team at a victory dinner.
He should have thanked them in public and if some mistakenly thought he was including Lance in that thank you he should have just lived with it. Lance's twitters came after Alberto said some things he didn't really need to say, and once he did that he had no wiggle room to thank the team without thanking Lance. That my friend, is another tactical error.
He's a great rider. I'm peeved because I think he messed up Johan's plan to get the podium sweep and I can't think of a reason for what he did other than insecurities and personality flaws that may come back to bite him as a racer. I wouldn't dismiss the opinions of Levi and Horner as Lanceboy talk. They are very seasoned professional riders that have raced for other leaders and in the case of Levi has been a team leader and who I think still is one of the 10 best riders in the sport.
Those are my opinions, and opinion pieces don't need to be double sourced.![]()
Digger said:Also incredibly accurate and factual.
Anyway, Eki is not fool, and nor are alot of Lance's teammates. They will side with Lance, whether they believe him right or not, if they want a nice salary for next year.
pmcg76 said:I think we all know complete dicks but they usually haves some friends as well.
pmcg76 said:Would you have cared about Astana getting a podium sweep if Lance had not been on the team? I somehow doubt it. I personally dont think one measly attempt of an attack over a three week race stopped Astana from getting 1-2-3 on the podium and when you are team leader winning a race, you are allowed to make mistakes unless you endanger yourself as I pointed out much earlier in regards to Lance and Indurain making mistakes in the Tour, much more costly than anything AC done.
Lance started this whole mess with his twitters back in March, AC has said nothing until after the Tour. The biggest mistake of all was Bruyneel letting Lance come back to Astana.