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Eki frustrated by AC's comments

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Jun 21, 2009
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Eva Maria said:
USDA and WADA only had jurisdiction during the last 7 months of Armstrongs career. USA Cycling only tested him 1-2 times per year, if that.

There is really only one governing body to point the finger at, the UCI. Considering they took a $500,000 "Donation" soon after his cortisone positive many would be right to question them.

i wouldn't waste any more energy if i were you eva
 
Jul 19, 2009
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gree0232 said:
Yeah, the French Sports Ministry NEVER talks to ASO.:confused:

Read the INDEPENDANT Dutch report and then get back to me.

You are cherry picking results, avoiding anything that is critical of those accusing Lance and doing after the fact searching to justify your opinions.

One interview does not equate to 'proof'. When an indpendant body comes in and says and independant commission should look into this for disciplinary actions .... Yeah, I would bet that LNDD would want to counter such a report. Interesting that they have not invited such a comission in to take a look.
What are the relation between French Sport Ministry and ASO a private company?

INDEPENDANT ? Vrijman is a dutch lawyer like Verbruggen, and they are close friend too. How could you have an independant investigation.

Vrijman, as lawyer, forgot to ask an authorization requested by french laws to visit LNDD. Why did he mention that he was refused to visit when it's was his own fault?

Maybe you should read the WADA rebuttal of his report. You can find it on WADA website.
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/newsarticle.ch2?articleId=3115718

About the $500.000 of Lance : http://www.playthegame.org/uploads/media/Michael_Ashenden-Can_curruption_derail_the_testing_syst.pdf
from the last international sport conference : play the game
 
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Eva Maria said:
It would not have to be overreaching, It could be as small as advanced warning of OOC testing, something that Manzano has said that both USPS and Kelme had. Silvia Schnek, UCI board member, confirmed this.

The reality is the UCI is incompetent. There unwillingness to even address the issue until WADA came on the scene helped more then any testing hurt.

Your accusations (and conclusions) are incredibly cynical.
 
ThisFrenchGuy said:
Telekom in 97? Agreed Ullrich was maybe not seen as a contender at the beginning of the race, but it didn't take long.
I asked in another thread if someone had recollections about the reporting at the time.

I see since I last posted, we have stopped arguing over the title thread and onto the Lance doped/he didnt debate which is nothing to do with this thread. On the 1997 Tour, Riis was official team leader going into the race with Ullrich having a relatively free role, both were agreed on this beforehand so there was no conflict, once Ullrich showed he was better on the road, he bceame team leader and Riis rode for him and there was no worrying whether Riis would make the podium or not. To be honest, it was a lot more straightforward than this year.
 
Jul 12, 2009
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Maybe AC did admire LA at some point, but he had to work with the egotistical moron, that he most likely thought, 'Why did I admire that ****'
 
Scott SoCal said:
Your accusations (and conclusions) are incredibly cynical.

I have pointed out this elsewhere but every time someone is rumoured to be doping, they are usually busted eventually. This has only happened in more recent years. There was already smoke around Thomas Dekker, Danilio Di Luca, Clement Lhotellerie, Davide Rebellin and guess what, they all got busted.

Last year, there were wispers about Sella from the Giro and he got busted. We still have Menchov, Kloeden(Austrian Blood Bank) who I believe could go at any time.

Furher back, the Manzano story was just stories but all the Kelme guys showed up in Operation Puerto.

Pre 1998, the whole issue of EPO usage and doping was a rumour and myth yet it proved to be correct.

When the rumours, whispers, myths are proven to be correct so often, its hard to dismiss them. Maybe not exactly the way we want it but thats life. There is never any stories surrounding Boguyes Telecom, Lfdjeux and guess what, to date they dont have positive tests or people connceted with doping affairs. Likewise Garmin, if you discount Millar from the Cofidis affair.

Lance is the only athlete to be widely connected with doping that has not been busted so that could justify both sides in this debate.
 

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Eva Maria said:
Ridiculous. This is bike racing, not Watergate. While L'Equipe was off on the timing the important part of the story, that more positives were coming shortly, was correct. I heard about the TT story from people that were at the stage is good enough for me. The story has now been reported in most countries in Europe, with no dispute from the Hog or Armstrong.

You are free to split hairs but it just makes you look foolish. You want a "Standard" but believe every BS tweet and press release from Armstrong like it is fact? What you really want is that the myth is not questioned.

watergate was an excellent lesson. L'Equipe was specific. 5-7 cases, not 1, before the tour, not on the 22nd. They said their source was inside UCI and UCI immediately denied it. They were wrong, get over it. Just as Kohl denied actually saying what the quoted him as saying the very next day. He said he was going to sue them. It wouldn't be the first time.

If you want to judge your opionins on uncoroborated heasay that is your perogitive. All i asked was that you find a version of that story in some other country that wasn't just a reprint of the origional. Who said I belive every "tweet" i read?

It seems it would be easy enough for someone to go on the record and say it happened. Alberto hasn't. His brother hasn't. It was a hotel, scores of people around, clerks, bellboys, hangers on of all stripes. It should not be hard to atribute. Similar things have happened in the past like screw ups at the Olympic Games and the press was all over it. Yes, the yellow jersey left stranded at his hotel would be a big story. Nobody mentions it until the tour is over?

If those 2 people you say you know were at the stage, claim it's true and have direct knowledge of it, they should go to the nearest, biggest newspaper they can find and tell the story. My guess is they heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy who saw Alberto's brother driving him to the stage, which may have been nothing of any more importance than Lance arriving in a private car which he regularly did.

If Astana stranded Alberto it would be extraordinary.
Claiming they did is an extraordinary claim.
Extraordinary claims should be held to extraordinary proofs.
The single unsoursed article is even less than ordinary.

All I want is for your vitriol to be reality based.
 

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gree0232 said:
Yeah, Floyd Landis.

Lance's 1999 EPO 'positive', that an independant Dutch investigation slammed WADA, not Lance, for.

Lance's 1999 'positive' for cortisone, which was slightly elevated, but within allowable limits and the result of treatment for a saddle sore (which you do tend to get when you ride in the rain). So sayth the ASO, and UCI during the race no less!

Tyler Hamilton, Rumndus Rumsas, Ivan Basso, Jan Ullrich, Iban Mayo ....

The most recent example? Showergate, where an completely superfluous memorandum requesting permission from the UCI for something they didn't need permission for was leaked to, you guessed it, L'Equip.

Like I said, when I see such generalized comments as, "Lance is a liar," with no specificity coupled with "L'Equip is the greatest sporting news source in the world," I see the cherry picking of facts.

Since 1999, Lance has been repeatedly accussed of doping, he been probbed, tested, investigated and brought several of these cases to court where EVERY SINGLE TIME, Lance has emerged vindicated.

If after ten years you cannot convict someone of somthing, and WADA wound up deeply embarassing itself relating to the 1999 EPO 'positive', then a guy is innocent.

Lance may not be a nice guy, but I get a little tired of the 'Where there is smoke there is fire' mentality that the French establishment absolutely loves and has long exploited. Why do you think the head of Formula One, during the middle of a dispute regarding the future of that sport, had pictures released of him with prostitutes in Nazi garb suddenly splashed into the International Press?

Nothing going on there, someone was clearly doing something regarding just their personal 'integrity'.

Lance may very well have lied on occassion, but certainly not because L'Equip is the standard for journalistic integrity and excellence. However, in L'Equip's defense, they do give you a good snap shot into the often shadowy world of sports ministries.

You just need to be aware that there is a LOT of politics involved in agencies like the IOC, UCI, ASO, etc. Each of thos organizations has agendas and leaders with strong egos. If you think things are clean and professional, please look at the fight between the UCI and ASO regarding the Pro-Tour.

Then ask Team Uni-bet if they would like to ride next year's tour ....

Damn! you're good... i hope you stick around.
 
Carboncrank said:
If Astana stranded Alberto it would be extraordinary.
Claiming they did is an extraordinary claim.
Extraordinary claims should be held to extraordinary proofs.
The single unsoursed article is even less than ordinary.

All I want is for your vitriol to be reality based.

Ditto for you as well

So you are directly quoting Lance now, as you say we also need proof that AC was a bad team-mate, one mistimed attack dont make a bad team-mate as I pointed out earlier. Having frineds of Lance who were not at the Tour with Astana stating AC is a bad team-mate does not count as proof either. Highly, highly biased.

Again, the quotes from Zubeldia saying AC thanked his team-mates is the closest we have to a neutral opinion. I honestly dont know if Zubeldia is pro-Lance or pro-AC or just neutral. I am not backing up the article in El Pais because it is a story, myth at the moment. that is it. No quotes or anything.

In summary, we have Lance and his non-present friends saying AC is a bad team-mate and we have an actual team-mate saying AC thanked his ream-mated for their help. The conclusion on this should be obvious but I dont expect it will.
 

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ThisFrenchGuy said:
What does the French political elite have to do with it? o_O

quoting gree "L'Equip benefits from relationships between French ministeries and agencies that many French people find maddening. The French establishment has a long history of aristotcratic tendancies, one of which is the reliance on relationship patronage. The American version is called the 'Good old boy network.'"


ThisFrenchGuy said:
What was the beginning on this argument again about newspapers, a translation?

The unsourced uncorroborated artile in spanish press about Alberto being stranded in the hotel by Astana on the final TT day.
ThisFrenchGuy said:
And sources can be anonymous. For a journalist to be able to protect its sources is a very important point, and that means sometimes keeping them confidential.

Sources can by anonymous when they are reported as such. The article in question didn't even do that.
 
May 11, 2009
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poupou said:
What are the relation between French Sport Ministry and ASO a private company?

INDEPENDANT ? Vrijman is a dutch lawyer like Verbruggen, and they are close friend too. How could you have an independant investigation.

Vrijman, as lawyer, forgot to ask an authorization requested by french laws to visit LNDD. Why did he mention that he was refused to visit when it's was his own fault?

Maybe you should read the WADA rebuttal of his report. You can find it on WADA website.
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/newsarticle.ch2?articleId=3115718

About the $500.000 of Lance : http://www.playthegame.org/uploads/media/Michael_Ashenden-Can_curruption_derail_the_testing_syst.pdf
from the last international sport conference : play the game

Well, in the interest of both sides, you should post Lance's rebuttal to the WADA rebuttal as well.

I find it troubling that one side is missing from the account.

As for relations between ASO and the French Sports Ministry, they clearly were involved in last year's tour were the FRENCH national doping agency conducted the testing in lieu of the UCI.

The extent to which these contacts take place is unknown. The idea that the French Sporting Body is completely disinterested in ASO and the TdF is kinda silly.

Now, what this has to do with Eki's comments? Not sure.

I will say, Lance seems to have earned the loyalty of at least one team mate, and that such loyalty is usually not built on a foundation of lies and money. Usually, such loyalty dries up when the money does or when public pressure gets to hot.

Lance has been retired for four years (no money going to Eki these past few years), and Lance has been in hot water for a long time. Yet he still has loyal friends. Yet HIS team still survives.
 
gree0232 said:
Well, in the interest of both sides, you should post Lance's rebuttal to the WADA rebuttal as well.

I find it troubling that one side is missing from the account.

As for relations between ASO and the French Sports Ministry, they clearly were involved in last year's tour were the FRENCH national doping agency conducted the testing in lieu of the UCI.

The extent to which these contacts take place is unknown. The idea that the French Sporting Body is completely disinterested in ASO and the TdF is kinda silly.

Now, what this has to do with Eki's comments? Not sure.

I will say, Lance seems to have earned the loyalty of at least one team mate, and that such loyalty is usually not built on a foundation of lies and money. Usually, such loyalty dries up when the money does or when public pressure gets to hot.

Lance has been retired for four years (no money going to Eki these past few years), and Lance has been in hot water for a long time. Yet he still has loyal friends. Yet HIS team still survives.

I am sure you have seen the earlier posts in which it was pointed out that LA personally requested US Postal to resign Ekimov after he head left the team in 1998.

Also the post which pointed out that Ekimov was present at the birth of Lances daughter. Lance has friends yes and Eki seems to be a very close one, so he aint neutral. I think we all know complete dicks but they usually haves some friends as well.
 

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gree0232 said:
Well, in the interest of both sides, you should post Lance's rebuttal to the WADA rebuttal as well.

I find it troubling that one side is missing from the account.

Lance did give his side during many interviews at the time. He said the samples were tampered with, despite no evidence and limited possibility. It was all part of a grand French conspiracy.
gree0232 said:
As for relations between ASO and the French Sports Ministry, they clearly were involved in last year's tour were the FRENCH national doping agency conducted the testing in lieu of the UCI.
The ALFD is not part of the "French Sports Ministry" it is independent. Doping is a criminal offense in France. The AFLD can investigate and prosecute doping offenses in the French criminal system.

It is clear you have little knowledge on this subject. If you will wish to continue to embarrass yourself as least start a thread in the proper forum
 
May 13, 2009
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I actually expected fanboys like 95rpm to move on after the Tour (to radioshack forum)..but here they are opening 100 stupi lance threads per day.

Let it go buddy, AC gave a fantastic cycling lesson to your lover Lance :p

(Disclaimer: take this as a joke)
 
May 13, 2009
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Its funny that Eki (one of Lance *** kissers) had to drive behind AC during the final time trial, pretty painful experience, I can picture the douchebag on the megaphone:

"Take it easy..you are going too fast!! Lance is down two minutes!!! Stick to the plan!! Brake it!! you are going to win ***...what are you doing?!!!":D:D:D
 

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pmcg76 said:
Ditto for you as well

So you are directly quoting Lance now, as you say we also need proof that AC was a bad team-mate, one mistimed attack dont make a bad team-mate as I pointed out earlier. Having frineds of Lance who were not at the Tour with Astana stating AC is a bad team-mate does not count as proof either. Highly, highly biased.

Again, the quotes from Zubeldia saying AC thanked his team-mates is the closest we have to a neutral opinion. I honestly dont know if Zubeldia is pro-Lance or pro-AC or just neutral. I am not backing up the article in El Pais because it is a story, myth at the moment. that is it. No quotes or anything.

In summary, we have Lance and his non-present friends saying AC is a bad team-mate and we have an actual team-mate saying AC thanked his ream-mated for their help. The conclusion on this should be obvious but I dont expect it will.

I don't hate Contador. I'm not going to start with a dislike for him and look at every little thing he does in a bad light. I would never think Alberto would be so crass and vulgar as to not thank the team at a victory dinner.

He should have thanked them in public and if some mistakenly thought he was including Lance in that thank you he should have just lived with it. Lance's twitters came after Alberto said some things he didn't really need to say, and once he did that he had no wiggle room to thank the team without thanking Lance. That my friend, is another tactical error.

He's a great rider. I'm peeved because I think he messed up Johan's plan to get the podium sweep and I can't think of a reason for what he did other than insecurities and personality flaws that may come back to bite him as a racer. I wouldn't dismiss the opinions of Levi and Horner as Lanceboy talk. They are very seasoned professional riders that have raced for other leaders and in the case of Levi has been a team leader and who I think still is one of the 10 best riders in the sport.

Those are my opinions, and opinion pieces don't need to be double sourced. :cool:
 
May 11, 2009
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Eva Maria said:
Lance did give his side during many interviews at the time. He said the samples were tampered with, despite no evidence and limited possibility. It was all part of a grand French conspiracy.

The ALFD is not part of the "French Sports Ministry" it is independent. Doping is a criminal offense in France. The AFLD can investigate and prosecute doping offenses in the French criminal system.

It is clear you have little knowledge on this subject. If you will wish to continue to embarrass yourself as least start a thread in the proper forum

AFLD is not French? Wow, I am an idiot. They have no French governmental funds, and they have no connections in a French society where connections are how you advance yourself through the agencies.

Of course, having worked with the Gendarmie on a professional level, I must have missed something about this when dealing with them. Stupid me.

A better question, why are you so intent on knocking Lance? Facts be dambed?
 

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Eva Maria said:
Lance did give his side during many interviews at the time. He said the samples were tampered with, despite no evidence and limited possibility. It was all part of a grand French conspiracy.

The ALFD is not part of the "French Sports Ministry" it is independent. Doping is a criminal offense in France. The AFLD can investigate and prosecute doping offenses in the French criminal system.

It is clear you have little knowledge on this subject. If you will wish to continue to embarrass yourself as least start a thread in the proper forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by gree0232
Doping cases announced within hours and well before the athlete is notified? The source, almost every time? L'Equip.
Eva Maria
Do you have an example of this?

just so you see who turned this into a discussion about 99...

We were talking about L'Equipe and reporting.

and then you don't listen.
 
Carboncrank said:
I don't hate Contador. I'm not going to start with a dislike for him and look at every little thing he does in a bad light. I would never think Alberto would be so crass and vulgar as to not thank the team at a victory dinner.

He should have thanked them in public and if some mistakenly thought he was including Lance in that thank you he should have just lived with it. Lance's twitters came after Alberto said some things he didn't really need to say, and once he did that he had no wiggle room to thank the team without thanking Lance. That my friend, is another tactical error.

He's a great rider. I'm peeved because I think he messed up Johan's plan to get the podium sweep and I can't think of a reason for what he did other than insecurities and personality flaws that may come back to bite him as a racer. I wouldn't dismiss the opinions of Levi and Horner as Lanceboy talk. They are very seasoned professional riders that have raced for other leaders and in the case of Levi has been a team leader and who I think still is one of the 10 best riders in the sport.

Those are my opinions, and opinion pieces don't need to be double sourced. :cool:

Would you have cared about Astana getting a podium sweep if Lance had not been on the team? I somehow doubt it. I personally dont think one measly attempt of an attack over a three week race stopped Astana from getting 1-2-3 on the podium and when you are team leader winning a race, you are allowed to make mistakes unless you endanger yourself as I pointed out much earlier in regards to Lance and Indurain making mistakes in the Tour, much more costly than anything AC done.

Lance started this whole mess with his twitters back in March, AC has said nothing until after the Tour. The biggest mistake of all was Bruyneel letting Lance come back to Astana.
 
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Digger said:
Also incredibly accurate and factual.

Anyway, Eki is not fool, and nor are alot of Lance's teammates. They will side with Lance, whether they believe him right or not, if they want a nice salary for next year.

Even another layer of cynicism from the haters.:(
 

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pmcg76 said:
Would you have cared about Astana getting a podium sweep if Lance had not been on the team? I somehow doubt it. I personally dont think one measly attempt of an attack over a three week race stopped Astana from getting 1-2-3 on the podium and when you are team leader winning a race, you are allowed to make mistakes unless you endanger yourself as I pointed out much earlier in regards to Lance and Indurain making mistakes in the Tour, much more costly than anything AC done.

Lance started this whole mess with his twitters back in March, AC has said nothing until after the Tour. The biggest mistake of all was Bruyneel letting Lance come back to Astana.

I wouldn't have been as interested but still, with Levi and Kloden and with Horner on the team it would have still been in the realm.

I've admitted that I began rooting for Lance just a few months ago when the real lance hating vitriol ramped up on the forums. I knew it was absurd. He was as good as his record and he proved it. Sweeping the podium would have been rubbing their faces in it, so sure that's what I had hoped for.

Don't forget stage 7. Switch the tables and have Lance attacking in that situation and a lot of Lance fans would have been jumping up and down cheering, but the team would have seen it the same way.

But mostly 17. If he had just marked the Schlecks and Kloden got a breather? I wonder if being told Lance was bridging up had anything to do with it? ;)

Was the podium a long shot? yes, but AC's attack came just when things were getting interesting. Who was going to win the Tour was concluded by then. All he had to do was defend.