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Eki frustrated by AC's comments

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Eva Maria

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gree0232 said:
AFLD is not French? Wow, I am an idiot.
I am glad you admit it.

It appears that your read comprehension is as poor as your knowledge of our sport. I never claimed they were not French.


gree0232 said:
Of course, having worked with the Gendarmie on a professional level, I must have missed something about this when dealing with them. Stupid me.
Getting a speeding ticket is "working with"? The AFLD is relatively new.

gree0232 said:
A better question, why are you so intent on knocking Lance? Facts be dambed?
You have presented no facts, nor answered any of my questions. The better question is why are you willing to completely embarrass yourself to defend Armstrong?
 

Eva Maria

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Carboncrank said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gree0232
Doping cases announced within hours and well before the athlete is notified? The source, almost every time? L'Equip.
Eva Maria
Do you have an example of this?

just so you see who turned this into a discussion about 99...

We were talking about L'Equipe and reporting.

and then you don't listen.

thanks for pointing our that gree0232 brought doping into the discussion and ignores any evidence that does not go along with his limited knowledge.
 
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gree0232 said:
AFLD is not French? Wow, I am an idiot. They have no French governmental funds, and they have no connections in a French society where connections are how you advance yourself through the agencies.

Of course, having worked with the Gendarmie on a professional level, I must have missed something about this when dealing with them. Stupid me.
Of course AFLD is linked to french government. The point was the link between ASO, AFLD, french Ministry, Justice and cycling regulations body.

In 2008, cycling regulation body was French cycling federation because of the feud with UCI. So ASO organize TDF, UCI rules the race and the anti-doping process, AFLD execute the testing (prelevement and control test). In case of AAF, french justice is involved.

To participate in 2009 TDF, Lance Armstrong met Armaury family. Then Patice Clerc was fired and Lance was welcome to TDF 2009. So political influence are coming from everywhere.
 

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Back on topic.

We really shouldn't expect any different from Eki. He has already demonstrated that he is more then willing to support Armstrong with he acts like an petulant child. Perfect example is when Armstrong chased down Simeoni, Eki spit on him when he came back to the Peloton. Classy guy
 
Scott SoCal said:
Even another layer of cynicism from the haters.:(

Is that all you've got?

cruisecouch.jpg


You can't handle the truth..
 
Carboncrank said:
He's a great rider. I'm peeved because I think he messed up Johan's plan to get the podium sweep and I can't think of a reason for what he did other than insecurities and personality flaws that may come back to bite him as a racer.

Those are my opinions, and opinion pieces don't need to be double sourced. :cool:

This has been bantered about as if it was a reality, but I see no evidence that JB was ACTUALLY going for podium. Recall that Levi was a DNS on Stage 13, which left the leaderboard as follows: (1) Noncentini, (2) Alberto Contador (6"), (3) Lance Armstrong (8"), (4) Bradley Wiggins (46") and (5) Andreas Kloden (54")--Levi was originally 4th at the end of stage 12. So 3 Astana team members in the top 5.

Now assuming we are going for a podium sweep, why would you have one of those riders, in this case Kloden, sacrifice his time to shepherd another team mate, Lance Armstrong, up the mountain? At this point, it was clear that Armstrong wasn't one of the 3 strongest riders. It was also clear at this point that JB was willing to sacrifice Kloden's position to ensure that Lance placed as high as possible. This scenario played out on Arcalis, Verbier, and Ventoux.

You don't sacrifice a highly placed rider (Kloden) to ensure that a relatively weaker rider (Armstrong) stays on the podium if you are going for a podium sweep. Sure a podium sweep was possible before Levi didn't start on Stage 13, but it is pretty clear that JB's actions indicate that his priority was (1) MJ and (2) Lance's GC position. AC's actions on Stage 17 only impacted AK's potential to get on the podium, not the potential for a podium sweep (which JB appeared to have abandoned on or prior to Stage 15). In fact, as others have previously noted, if AK finishes with the winning group on Stage 17, Lance does not finish on the podium, Kloden does. And that is the real travesty of the move since I believe that Kloden was the stronger rider between he and Armstrong.
 
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Eva Maria said:
I am glad you admit it.

It appears that your read comprehension is as poor as your knowledge of our sport. I never claimed they were not French.



Getting a speeding ticket is "working with"? The AFLD is relatively new.


You have presented no facts, nor answered any of my questions. The better question is why are you willing to completely embarrass yourself to defend Armstrong?


I have a question for you. Why on earth would someone so incredibly al-knowing actually lower yourself by condescending to unworthy nitwits like us?

Shouldn't you be solving global hunger or something?

Armstrong defends himself quite well. And from people a he!!uva lot smarter than you. If think your innuendo and heresay is enough to take down LA then present your case. Take it to the propper authorities since you know them all. Your threads just re-gurdge the same tired old BS.
 
Carboncrank said:
I wouldn't have been as interested but still, with Levi and Kloden and with Horner on the team it would have still been in the realm.

Not choosing Horner is the DS's "fault". Levi crashed and it is part of the race. And Kloden just didn't had it for the podium. [Or maybe he had it but sacrified for LA, point being, both of them there was just not possible] A.Schleck was pretty conservative on Ventoux, I think we all agree he could have widened that gap if he didn't tried to help his brother.

There's no amount of team tactics that could have covered that.

Did Contador make a mistake at 17? Maybe. Hopefully there's mistakes in sports, otherwise it would be pretty boring. It didn't cost him a thing though. Would he have lost his MJ on this, I would understand the controversy. The real mistake for me was not carrying on his effort: he is the leader, his role is to consolidate his lead at every opportunity. Just like he did on Arcalis or Verbier. If his teammates have any pretentions regarding their ranking, it's up to them to prove they are worthy of it on the road. Pacing the race slow to accomodate them is a weak move IMHO. JB could "allow" it because the team was strong, good for him.

I know, i know, Contador "isolated himself". Not sure of what help Kloden would have been in his state, to be honest.

To do the podium sweep, you still need to have the MJ. And the only Astana rider that could bring it to Paris was Contador. He is the essential part in achieving any objectives, so yeah I would expect "special treatment".
 
Carboncrank said:
Don't forget stage 7. Switch the tables and have Lance attacking in that situation and a lot of Lance fans would have been jumping up and down cheering, but the team would have seen it the same way.

Based on what I heard from Lance and Levi after the stage, they fully expected that Lance would be in yellow after Stage 7. JB didn't want the jersey, but the group was pushing the pace too fast (and in contravention of JB's orders). This is purely speculation, but my guess is AC figured out what was going on and flew the coop.
 
Carboncrank said:
I wouldn't have been as interested but still, with Levi and Kloden and with Horner on the team it would have still been in the realm.

I've admitted that I began rooting for Lance just a few months ago when the real lance hating vitriol ramped up on the forums. I knew it was absurd. He was as good as his record and he proved it. Sweeping the podium would have been rubbing their faces in it, so sure that's what I had hoped for.

Don't forget stage 7. Switch the tables and have Lance attacking in that situation and a lot of Lance fans would have been jumping up and down cheering, but the team would have seen it the same way.

But mostly 17. If he had just marked the Schlecks and Kloden got a breather? I wonder if being told Lance was bridging up had anything to do with it? ;)

Was the podium a long shot? yes, but AC's attack came just when things were getting interesting. Who was going to win the Tour was concluded by then. All he had to do was defend.

Your right all he had to do was defend, silly attack but as I said, its a 3 week race and everybody makes mistakes including Lance, maybe if Kloeden had not towed Lance at Verbier or rode a good TT, he might have made the podium also but probably at the expense of Lance, there are a few variables other than just that one attack by Contador.

There was no way Lance was gonna close an almost 3 minute gap. I know he closed a gap on a previous stage but that was more down to the front group slowing and lower down the climb, with a less severe gradient. On that climb, not realistic.

The Schlecks were setting a good pace beforehand and continued to do the same after the attack. Do you think Nibali would have closed the gap as well if Lance was going so fast, they would have needed to be going a lot faster than the Schlecks and they were not. If Contador was worried, he would have kept attacking, which happened first, Contador attacking or Lance attacking Wiggins, I honestly thought the Contador attack happened first, could be wrong on that.

Bruyneel set his team up in a certian manner for so long but this year, he decided to reverse that approach for no apparent reason. I mean every man and his dog had AC down as favourite this year, most thought the only reason he didnt win last year was because he wasnt there, the heaviest favourite since Lance in his pomp yet his team failed to back him from the start even though he was obviously in great shape. If your objective is to win the Tour, everything else should be secondary. Who remembers T-Mobile loading their team for Ullrich at the expense of Zabel shooting for the Green jersey.

My own thougths are base your allegiances based on personal opinions, not in response to what others think about riders. I dont like Lance, my opinions are based on following his career from the start and what I find acceptable/unacceptable in cycling, not what others think of Lance. His actions & behaviour turned me away from him long ago and I just got tired of the amount of coverage he receives in comparison to others in the sport. I like the sport overall, not one rider so I dont want to hear about one rider all the time.

I stay off topics like family, his cancer work(even though he has abused it in his comeback) or what art he likes. I just think his presence turns the sport into a circus and his twittering is complete media whoring and then there are too many fans that cannot accept he is less than perfect and cannot distingiush between Lance the cancer/cycling hero and Lance the jerk guy. Although there are plenty of haters who cannot do so either.
 
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BroDeal said:
Is that all you've got?

cruisecouch.jpg


You can't handle the truth..

Is that you on the couch?

All you and Eva have is 10 years of people not having enough to do frustrated at being unable to prove your conspiracy theory. I'm shocked that you guys have not brought up Ballaster, Walsh and LeMond to bolster your steady stream of BS. Looks like LA might be around another year or two. You guys might want to have your blood pressure checked so you don't stroke out.

Can we get back to racing now?
 

Eva Maria

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Scott SoCal said:
I have a question for you. Why on earth would someone so incredibly al-knowing actually lower yourself by condescending to unworthy nitwits like us?

Shouldn't you be solving global hunger or something?

Armstrong defends himself quite well. And from people a he!!uva lot smarter than you. If think your innuendo and heresay is enough to take down LA then present your case. Tke it to the propper authorities since you know them all. Your threads just re-gurdge the same tired old BS.

The expected response. Instead of actually addressing any of the points I have made you attack the messenger.

If you ever do feel like actually discussing the issue please start here. UCI anti doping expert says Lance doped. He reviews the case in extreme detail. Let us know why he is wrong
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

If you do choose to address the subject please do so in the other forum
 

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poupou said:
What are the relation between French Sport Ministry and ASO a private company?

INDEPENDANT ? Vrijman is a dutch lawyer like Verbruggen, and they are close friend too. How could you have an independant investigation.

Vrijman, as lawyer, forgot to ask an authorization requested by french laws to visit LNDD. Why did he mention that he was refused to visit when it's was his own fault?

For the umpteeth time.. what is it with the continual reference to "Dutch Lawyers" as though that were desparaging? Who are you saying Verbruggen is close friends with? Vrijman? There's no conflict as long as they are independent of who they are investigating.
poupou said:
Maybe you should read the WADA rebuttal of his report. You can find it on WADA website.
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/newsarticle.ch2?articleId=3115718
I have.
poupou said:
About the $500.000 of Lance : http://www.playthegame.org/uploads/media/Michael_Ashenden-Can_curruption_derail_the_testing_syst.pdf
from the last international sport conference : play the game

The name Ashenden just pops up again and again doesn't it, he's like the designated anti lance scientist isn't he? We'll just call him the DALS. Can't you come up with someone that hasn't been by your side over and over?

Nice brochure. Pretty picture of lab equipment and unine bottles (if there is such a thing as nice pictures of urine bottles) and a graph you can't read and a chart without expanation followed by claims that Lance gave half a million to UCI (finally, I see where that comes from) and follow by what looks like evidence of criminal collusion, fraud and bribery!! :eek: OMG !! How many people went to jail for this?

Of course there was a conspiracy by UCI to allow Lance to ride on EPO testing him with the nice shiny machine he bought them so he could win the Tour de France over and over again until he got bored.

And Obama wasn't born in the US and the new health care bill has provisions for the government to decide when old people die. :eek::eek::rolleyes:
 
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Eva Maria said:
The expected response. Instead of actually addressing any of the points I have made you attack the messenger.

If you ever do feel like actually discussing the issue please start here. UCI anti doping expert says Lance doped. He reviews the case in extreme detail. Let us know why he is wrong
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

If you do choose to address the subject please do so in the other forum

I'll re-state. Take you bullet-proof case to your freinds and throw LA out of the sport forever. You seem pretty convinced.

I'll place a modicum of faith in the system.
 

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Scott SoCal said:
I'll re-state. Take you bullet-proof case to your freinds and throw LA out of the sport forever. You seem pretty convinced.

I'll place a modicum of faith in the system.

In other words you have no answer.

You must be new to the sport to put any faith in the UCI
 

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Eva Maria said:
The expected response. Instead of actually addressing any of the points I have made you attack the messenger.

If you ever do feel like actually discussing the issue please start here. UCI anti doping expert says Lance doped. He reviews the case in extreme detail. Let us know why he is wrong
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

If you do choose to address the subject please do so in the other forum

You think we all just fell of the turnip truck.

There was no sanction against Lance because there were insurmountble problems with security and chain of custody with those samples. They were never meant to be tied to an individual rider and there were no long term protocols for protecting them in such a manner.

When the riders were tested they signed a form that said the samples would be not be used for individual testing after 3 years. Therefor there was no need for long term protocols, without which UCI was fully aware they couldn't survive court challenge.

Why do you insist on doing this on this thread?

It is a problem they have rectified.
 
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Eva Maria said:
In other words you have no answer.

You must be new to the sport to put any faith in the UCI

My answer is he has not been convicted of anything. Perhaps everything you have stated is gospel. In reality, I don't know the doping/non-doping practices of Lance Armstrong. And neither do you. The only thing we have is the system in place. One more time, present your case and see what happens. You would be the hero for most on this blog.

Not new j,ust not quite as jaded as you.


So, what did you think of AC's attack on stage 17? Smart, or dumb?
 

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Carboncrank said:
Of course there was a conspiracy by UCI to allow Lance to ride on EPO testing him with the nice shiny machine he bought them so he could win the Tour de France over and over again until he got bored.

How could it have gone to a machine that did not exist when he gave the "Donation"

The "Donation" was given in late 1999. The UCI went public with it as it was about to be reported in the media years later.

It appears that neither of you have any interest in discussing the actual facts but if you do please start another thread in the correct forum
 
Scott SoCal said:
I'll re-state. Take you bullet-proof case to your freinds and throw LA out of the sport forever. You seem pretty convinced.

I'll place a modicum of faith in the system.

For most of us, the default test is the Simeoni affair.

In a time of rampant doping, here was a guy who was willing to testify against the generally accepted biggest doping doctor(Ferrari) in cycling, this case started long before Ferraris connection with Lance became public so had no connection with Lance.

It was Lance who started this one by calling Simeoni a liar through a newspaper.

So when Simeoni launched his attack to try and win a stage at the Tour, he was chased by the MJ who had the race won at that point. He didnt even let his team chase him down, he went after Simeoni himself so he brought a feud that very few knew about to the forefront of the Tour, to humiliate a fellow pro in front of the world just because he was willing to testify against Ferrari. If that is not vindictive and classless and reason enough to dislke Lance, I dont know what is.

Look forward to hear your thoughts on this issue or is it minor compared to what AC done this year.
 

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Scott SoCal said:
My answer is he has not been convicted of anything. Perhaps everything you have stated is gospel. In reality, I don't know the doping/non-doping practices of Lance Armstrong. And neither do you. The only thing we have is the system in place. One more time, present your case and see what happens. You would be the hero for most on this blog.

Not new j,ust not quite as jaded as you.


So, what did you think of AC's attack on stage 17? Smart, or dumb?

It is possible for the average person to survey the evidence and come to a rational conclusion, and not try to pawn it off to one of the most inept organizations in sports, the UCI.

I am not jaded, just informed. I lived and raced in Europe. I have met and raced against lance. I know many of his former teammates and support staff. I do not hate Lance but I do dislike the misinformation that many spread about the sport, it makes the sport look stupid. Every time a rider blames a "French conspiracy" "Vanishing Twin" or "Shots of Whiskey" it only makes the sport, and its fans, look like fools

This is not a blog, it is a message board.

AC's attack was smart. Armstrong would have, and has done, the same thing.
 

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Carboncrank said:
You think we all just fell of the turnip truck.

There was no sanction against Lance because there were insurmountble problems with security and chain of custody with those samples. They were never meant to be tied to an individual rider and there were no long term protocols for protecting them in such a manner.

When the riders were tested they signed a form that said the samples would be not be used for individual testing after 3 years. Therefor there was no need for long term protocols, without which UCI was fully aware they couldn't survive court challenge.

Why do you insist on doing this on this thread?

It is a problem they have rectified.

I did not start this line of discussion, why do you insist on continuing this in this thread?

Asheden disputes all of what you say in his interview. As he knows much more then you do about the process I will side with him on this matter.
 
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Eva Maria said:
It is possible for the average person to survey the evidence and come to a ration conclusion, and not try to pawn it off to one of the most inept organizations in sports, the UCI.

I am not jaded, just informed. I lived and raced in Europe. I have met and raced against lance. I know many of his former teammates and support staff. I do not hate Lance but I do dislike the misinformation that many spread about the sport, it makes the sport look stupid. Every time a rider blames a "French conspiracy" "Vanishing Twin" or "Shots of Whiskey" it only makes the sport, and its fans, look like fools

This is not a blog, it is a message board.

AC's attack was smart. Armstrong would have, and has done, the same thing.

It's not ration, but rational.

You're pretty jaded.