Esteban Chaves Discussion Thread

[Climbing]

Happy to see Chaves back into business, though with too many stars the team might be more an hindrance than anything else, meaning all riding for GC position.

 

[42x16ss]

I'm not so sure. Simon Yates won't be too fresh judging from how he finished the TDF, and Haig is a quality rider, but nowhere near challenging for GC at a GT. Meanwhile Adam Yates will be there as backup, because while he's certainly a top 5 rider a fully fit Chaves is capable of winning overall after a light season so far.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

And I think Chaves's team is way better than Froome's, it could serve him big time !
Poels didn't look very good today, but he may have soft-pedaled. Nieve, Rosa and Moscon were very decent but they aren't top10 quality and won't hold the whole vuelta. The yate brothers and Haig could isolate Froome and then, with a good tactic, Chaves could gain minutes.
I just fear Chaves will ride like Uran did in the Tour ...

Uran had a huge reason to ride conservative in the Tour. Chaves doesn't.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

I'm not so sure. Simon Yates won't be too fresh judging from how he finished the TDF, and Haig is a quality rider, but nowhere near challenging for GC at a GT. Meanwhile Adam Yates will be there as backup, because while he's certainly a top 5 rider a fully fit Chaves is capable of winning overall after a light season so far.

Fairly much how I'm reading it. SY was running near on empty by the end of the Tour and wasn't able to go with the main move at San Sebastian; almost certainly he'll fall away over the next week or so with the best case scenario being that he may be able to be of use on some stage as part of a team strategic move.

Haig .... I will agree that its premature to be thinking of him riding serious GC at a GT. Riding GC at one weekers next season ... certainly. I'd think he'll ride primarily in support at this race but an overall finish somewhere around top 30-40 may not be a complete surprise.

AY ....will be interesting to see how he handles the heat of the Vuelta and the less regimented racing that we sometimes see at this race. He is the most passive of the 3 riders and really does need to have his "I wanna ride at the back of the pack" proclivity thrashed out of him !

Chaves yesterday was the best we've really seen from the little guy this year. He certainly looked to be the only one capable of going wheel to wheel with Froome. The question will be was this just a one off or is the little guy really hitting form for this race ? IF its the latter then we may be in for some fun as he is probably the only person here who could really put some time into Froome in the mountains ...whether that (plus any time bonuses) will be sufficient to offset the TT will be pivotal.

 

[Jspear]

I feel like once Chaves had his health issues… That was always the plan for him to simply ride the tour for form, and that he would always be better in the Vuelta. I think he will definitely be able to maintain what we saw yesterday. Recently Orica has been real good at getting the boys in tiptop shape for the main objectives of the year.

 

[Krokro]

Re: Re:

And I think Chaves's team is way better than Froome's, it could serve him big time !
Poels didn't look very good today, but he may have soft-pedaled. Nieve, Rosa and Moscon were very decent but they aren't top10 quality and won't hold the whole vuelta. The yate brothers and Haig could isolate Froome and then, with a good tactic, Chaves could gain minutes.
I just fear Chaves will ride like Uran did in the Tour ...

Uran had a huge reason to ride conservative in the Tour. Chaves doesn't.

Contract extension?

Anyway Chavito is not that kind of rider and that's why Im fan. Hope he can go nuclear on the uphill finishes where Froome is proven to struggle to take the rythm.

 

[42x16ss]

I see Chaves as the man to beat when the gradient gets over 15%, as long as the knee injury stays under control. Froome has shown this is the only area he struggles.

 

[rote_laterne]

Re: Re:

And I think Chaves's team is way better than Froome's, it could serve him big time !
Poels didn't look very good today, but he may have soft-pedaled. Nieve, Rosa and Moscon were very decent but they aren't top10 quality and won't hold the whole vuelta. The yate brothers and Haig could isolate Froome and then, with a good tactic, Chaves could gain minutes.
I just fear Chaves will ride like Uran did in the Tour ...

Uran had a huge reason to ride conservative in the Tour. Chaves doesn't.

Contract extension?

I guess his (then former) TT ability compared to other podium contenders. There was no way he'd win the Tour.

 

[sir fly]

Speaking about Chaves' performance yesterday, besides being the only rider able to follow Froome's acceleration, he also spent some time riding next to him instead of drafting in his slipstream. It wasn't only old-school message to a rival, nowadays it gives you more objective insight in your opponents strength.
And Yates brothers are still in contention.
Sky will have hard time controlling Orica when they decide to blow the race apart.
Tomorrow's stage probably won't be telling as much as yesterday's, but it's another round.

 

[portugal11]

The yates brothers are very good followers but they don't have the ability to destroy the sky's train. I don't see many differences between adam (for example) and meinjtes

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

The yates brothers are very good followers but they don't have the ability to destroy the sky's train. I don't see many differences between adam (for example) and meinjtes

But they are strong enough to stay with Chaves right up to the finale and keep him well positioned. They are also strong enough to work alongside Haig to try things similar to what Orica and Movistar did last year. With Chaves' TT ability they will probably need to do this at some stage. I see Simon Yates dropping some time soon for this reason.

 

[Tigerion]

Re:

The yates brothers are very good followers but they don't have the ability to destroy the sky's train. I don't see many differences between adam (for example) and meinjtes

If they stay in teh danger zone of GC they can force some of the earlier sky train riders to drop. To often the rider n the front is cooked but they are left to ride their tempo. A slight upping of speed and they crack, A yates attack can make them crack and they have the ability to do that multiple times, they don't do one attack and then pop

 

[Krokro]

Re: Re:

And I think Chaves's team is way better than Froome's, it could serve him big time !
Poels didn't look very good today, but he may have soft-pedaled. Nieve, Rosa and Moscon were very decent but they aren't top10 quality and won't hold the whole vuelta. The yate brothers and Haig could isolate Froome and then, with a good tactic, Chaves could gain minutes.
I just fear Chaves will ride like Uran did in the Tour ...

Uran had a huge reason to ride conservative in the Tour. Chaves doesn't.

Contract extension?

I guess his (then former) TT ability compared to other podium contenders. There was no way he'd win the Tour.

Well, it seems to be his one and only nemesis. He climbs amazingly well, he has good punch suited to those several finishes and his positioning seems remarkable (stage 2).

 

[Krokro]

Re:

I see Chaves as the man to beat when the gradient gets over 15%, as long as the knee injury stays under control. Froome has shown this is the only area he struggles.

This. 100%.

 

[SafeBet]

I reckon the Yates brothers should be used for mid-range attacks forcing the Sky train to work hard. This is the only way to wear them out. Try and try and try again until an opportunity to attack Froome arises. Then it's up to Chaves.

 

[Blanco]

If Chaves is serious about winning Vuelta, Yates bros will need to go "loco" on the last climb

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

I reckon the Yates brothers should be used for mid-range attacks forcing the Sky train to work hard. This is the only way to wear them out. Try and try and try again until an opportunity to attack Froome arises. Then it's up to Chaves.

Sounds simple but these were tactics that Orica pulled a couple of times (successfully) at last year's Vuelta so other teams are going to be wise to any such efforts this year. Not saying that they shouldn't still attempt them; just that they will need to be judicious as to when/where they try ..... and who they choose to expend on such outings. Whilst they have the 3 main guns, this year's line-up is probably significantly weaker as regards support riders ... quite possibly a case of "too many chiefs, not enough Indians".

 

[ice&fire]

Re:

The yates brothers are very good followers but they don't have the ability to destroy the sky's train. I don't see many differences between adam (for example) and meinjtes

One Yates was enough to break the Sky train last year in Marie Blanque. They all missed the time limit the day after.

 

[yaco]

Orica will remain patient until after the first rest day - My guess is S.Yates and Haig will be sacrificed - I have no idea how they work it.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Orica will remain patient until after the first rest day - My guess is S.Yates and Haig will be sacrificed - I have no idea how they work it.

I'd agree that rest day will be time for reassessing. Haig so far has been highly impressive and I think they will take the line of "if you can stick with the main game for as long as you can, then its good experience". If anything SY may be the one that falls away from the GC picture first given his race schedule for the year; the issue is just how much will he have left to be able to be of meaningful utility other than perhaps one big move. The problem is that the support cast doesn't really measure up to last year as regards being able to pull off a multiple man set-piece; just who can they call on outside their "main four" .... maybe at a pinch J-J or Cort as Verona has been an absentee so far.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Orica will remain patient until after the first rest day - My guess is S.Yates and Haig will be sacrificed - I have no idea how they work it.

I'd agree that rest day will be time for reassessing. Haig so far has been highly impressive and I think they will take the line of "if you can stick with the main game for as long as you can, then its good experience". If anything SY may be the one that falls away from the GC picture first given his race schedule for the year; the issue is just how much will he have left to be able to be of meaningful utility other than perhaps one big move. The problem is that the support cast doesn't really measure up to last year as regards being able to pull off a multiple man set-piece; just who can they call on outside their "main four" .... maybe at a pinch J-J or Cort as Verona has been an absentee so far.

I am wondering if Verona is saving himself for week 2 and 3. Would like Haig to ride the TDF in 2018 - He can ride a soft GC in support of the leaders, and possibly go for the White Jersey.

 

[portugal11]

Happy to see him at his best again. Hope that he will find those extra watts that were missing last year

 

[HelloDolly]

Chaves was dropped surprising early today by Contador & Froome

Dropped before TJ, Betencur (who later crashed ) & Roche (who hung on longer)

 

[portugal11]

I think he is very similiar compared to last year. He will do top3 but he doesn't have the legs to challenge the first place.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Chaves was dropped surprising early today by Contador & Froome

Dropped before TJ, Betencur (who later crashed ) & Roche (who hung on longer)

Chaves was in the leading group with 200 metres to go and it was surprising to see him 15 seconds behind at the summit - He will do better on the longer climbs.