European Championship 2025: Men’s ITT, October 1

[Berniece]

The fact that a one-day racer like Evenepoel has tried only two different monuments is incredible. He should've raced MSR a long time ago and Flandres seems overdue as well.

If he stayed up right all season long he would've tried that already. He also wouldn't have waited until 2024 to ride the TDF. They just "stick to the plan" they created when he was 19, and don't feel it needs to be changed or influenced due to his long recovery periods.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If he stayed up right all season long he would've tried that already. He also wouldn't have waited until 2024 to ride the TDF. They just "stick to the plan" they created when he was 19, and don't feel it needs to be changed or influenced due to his long recovery periods.

I get that he lost some chances i.e. 2021 and 2025 but still. MSR is a cheap race to include in a schedule so it's weird he never tried it in those remaining 4 years.

 

[Berniece]

I get that he lost some chances i.e. 2021 and 2025 but still. MSR is a cheap race to include in a schedule so it's weird he never tried it in those remaining 4 years.

I agree, they are just so fixed in their ways. I hope RBH takes him out of his comfort zone.

 

[hayneplane]

Greatest time triallist of all time

You would love to see him against Indurain in a 50km ITT but yes don’t think there is any doubt he is the greatest this century.

 

[Karl Merckx]

Did he keep gaining time at the same rate even today?

He purposely kept some energy in the last 6 kms before the last climb where he gained like 12s on Ganna in like a 1km or so...

 

[Red Rick]

He purposely kept some energy in the last 6 kms before the last climb where he gained like 12s on Ganna in like a 1km or so...

25s on the first half, 18s on the 2nd, slightly longer half of the time trial.

 

[red_flanders]

25s on the first half, 18s on the 2nd, slightly longer half of the time trial.

So two TT's in a row where he slowed relative to some of his top competition. Maybe there have been more, no idea. But the question really is whether the relative, varying, speed drop-off is pacing strategy or fatigue. Don't feel like I would bet either way, I just don't know.

I would say that the boy does seem to be pretty, pretty confident right now.

 

[Unchained]

So two TT's in a row where he slowed relative to some of his top competition. Maybe there have been more, no idea. But the question really is whether the relative, varying, speed drop-off is pacing strategy or fatigue. Don't feel like I would bet either way, I just don't know.

I would say that the boy does seem to be pretty, pretty confident right now.

No the big question is did his road race loss push him closer trying hour record. And he has to have gotten some feedback from Ganna. It's unclear if riding a fixed gear is something he does currently. I am not sure what would happen with his winter prep..try the record now or wait until next year. He also got lots of praise from Tadej and Tarling said he has never seen Remco faster.. If he goes to Bora camp in January will he change things up to do more climbing..

 

[Hugh Januss]

So two TT's in a row where he slowed relative to some of his top competition. Maybe there have been more, no idea. But the question really is whether the relative, varying, speed drop-off is pacing strategy or fatigue. Don't feel like I would bet either way, I just don't know.

I would say that the boy does seem to be pretty, pretty confident right now.

Am I the only one to not be surprised that Remco lost a few seconds to Jay Vine in the later portion which was all up or downhill?

 

[tigabara]

So, Remco should be proud of himself. He holds the TT title at the Olympics, the World Championships, and now the European Championships.

Road cycling? That's another story. There's a master there, Tadej Pogacar.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I see they did the first 24 km yesterday. Are they doing the second part today then?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I see they did the first 24 km yesterday. Are they doing the second part today then?

You and @Zoetemelk-fan should have watched Cro Race yesterday where they rode 51 km.

 

[RedheadDane]

I see they did the first 24 km yesterday. Are they doing the second part today then?

You know... I suspect that if the organisers had wanted a 48 km ITT, they would probably have designed a 48 km ITT.
However, it appears they wanted a 24 km ITT.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

You and @Zoetemelk-fan should have watched Cro Race yesterday where they rode 51 km.

Not impressed!

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

I just thought the 50km limit was extremely arbitrary. And you said distances below that couldn't be used to crown a champion, which all the sports I mention do.

I too would like it if the distance was longer but you acted as if it was something new and particularly lamentable this year, which it isn't.

You could also argue that since they never use such distances (plus 50) in races across the season, it would be artificial if it was the case in the world and continental championships (but you could probably call those events artifical anyway given that there are no stand-alone time trials apart from those and the Chrono des Nations).

You cut my post - on purpose?
It's not because something magical happens to my satisfaction if the distance surpasses 50 k.

As previous mentioned, my essense is that I prefer a WC Men Elite ITT, which accommodates several different peak competences. I.e. a route length that allows for several different types of challenges
- long flat stretches
- shorter puncheur climbs
- fast easy descents
- slightly longer climbs (e.g. 3-4 km with 4-6%)
- technical descents and passages.
- etc.

At a distance resulting in a winning time of closer to the hour (compared to 28:26m yesterday), all knitted together in such a way that too hard an outlay is punished in the end and too much caution is also punished.

Route designs that have partially met more of those criteria immediately come to mind: 2009 Mendrisio, 2006 Salzburg, 2007 Stuttgart, 2018 Innsbruck, 2012 Valkenburg, and maybe partly 2003 Hamilton.

And with the wind in the Drôme-Ardéche region, the possibilities for a real cracker were plenty.

It probably wouldn't make any difference for the winner outcome these years; Remco conquers all terrains with his predator TT style and body size.

However, such routes can provide some more delicate scenarios in the fight for the remaining podium places, especially if the medal fights becomes close, and a nice risk/possibility of some podium candidates going over their limits

Besides, I would be delivered more time to enjoy the phenomenon while he's underway

 

[Penninepeddler]

You would love to see him against Indurain in a 50km ITT but yes don’t think there is any doubt he is the greatest this century.

I had never looked into Anquetil's TTs properly until recently...

I think on balance he is the best.

9x Grand prix des nations wins when it was basically the World TT Champs. Hinault also won 5x...

1965 Chrono? Anquentil averaged 47km an hour... for 74km...

he had a 48km average for a 50km TT in the middle of the TDF one year.

So often 1.5-2km an hour faster than anyone else. You could have probably dropped 1960-1966 Anquetil into a TT in 1985 on the same equipment he had back then and he still wins most TTs. (basically anytime until aero-bars came in and made everyone 3km/h faster overnight in a mid-distance TT)

In just the last ~7-8 years guys have got 1.5-2km an hour faster on flat mid-distance TTs... from say 52km/h to 54km/h... how much is the difference to a late 50s/early 60s bike without TT bars!

Would be fascinated to see the speed that top TTers now hold with the same equipment he had... wouldnt be "that" hard to find out.

The maths says that Anquetil even with a 1960s bike, even if you just gave him aerobars with no other upgrade to his 1960s bike (clips, carbon frame, electronic gears, better rolling resistance), would have been able to do ~50-51km/h on ~50-75km flat TTs...

 

[KenFiamingo]

I had never looked into Anquetil's TTs properly until recently...

I think on balance he is the best.

9x Grand prix des nations wins when it was basically the World TT Champs. Hinault also won 5x...

Talk about double standards.
Merckx has 11 Grand Tours and 19 monuments. Pogacar is not even half way, yet a lot of people consider him the GOAT.
But when we talk about TT, Remco's achievements fall short against a 9x GP des nations winner (yes I know it was the unofficial WCTT).

 

[proffate]

all the more likely remco will be the first -- considering his history. ;-)



precisely the reason to be concerned for his safety as he is a nervous/tentative descender at best and he also is extremely competitive (and emotional) in spirit and may take precisely those risks that he shouldn't if he is tempted by being at the front end of the race.

Remco could lose a second on every hairpin and I doubt it affects his chances of winning. He can make up more than that easily after the descent, all the more because there's usually some cat and mouse going on. The only scenario where slow descending burns him is if it's just Remco and Pog descending the poggio.

Better reason not to target msr is because if pog can't beat the sprinter-classicsmen then what is remco gonna do?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Remco could lose a second on every hairpin and I doubt it affects his chances of winning. He can make up more than that easily after the descent, all the more because there's usually some cat and mouse going on. The only scenario where slow descending burns him is if it's just Remco and Pog descending the poggio.

Better reason not to target msr is because if pog can't beat the sprinter-classicsmen then what is remco gonna do?

Remco can do the damage in the last 2-3 kms. If he attacks from a small group and they hesitate for a moment then it could be game over.

 

[Netserk]

Remco could lose a second on every hairpin and I doubt it affects his chances of winning. He can make up more than that easily after the descent, all the more because there's usually some cat and mouse going on. The only scenario where slow descending burns him is if it's just Remco and Pog descending the poggio.

Better reason not to target msr is because if pog can't beat the sprinter-classicsmen then what is remco gonna do?

One of his best scenarios is an attack immediately after the descent. Not with 1 km to go after he has made it back to the front.

So getting dropped on the descent would be costly for him (but I don't think he'd be distanced by Pogi there).

 

[Penninepeddler]

Talk about double standards.
Merckx has 11 Grand Tours and 19 monuments. Pogacar is not even half way, yet a lot of people consider him the GOAT.
But when we talk about TT, Remco's achievements fall short against a 9x GP des nations winner (yes I know it was the unofficial WCTT).

I don't think Pogi has proved himself the GOAT yet... Merckx still is.

 

[hayneplane]

I had never looked into Anquetil's TTs properly until recently...

I think on balance he is the best.

9x Grand prix des nations wins when it was basically the World TT Champs. Hinault also won 5x...

1965 Chrono? Anquentil averaged 47km an hour... for 74km...

he had a 48km average for a 50km TT in the middle of the TDF one year.

So often 1.5-2km an hour faster than anyone else. You could have probably dropped 1960-1966 Anquetil into a TT in 1985 on the same equipment he had back then and he still wins most TTs. (basically anytime until aero-bars came in and made everyone 3km/h faster overnight in a mid-distance TT)

In just the last ~7-8 years guys have got 1.5-2km an hour faster on flat mid-distance TTs... from say 52km/h to 54km/h... how much is the difference to a late 50s/early 60s bike without TT bars!

Would be fascinated to see the speed that top TTers now hold with the same equipment he had... wouldnt be "that" hard to find out.

The maths says that Anquetil even with a 1960s bike, even if you just gave him aerobars with no other upgrade to his 1960s bike (clips, carbon frame, electronic gears, better rolling resistance), would have been able to do ~50-51km/h on ~50-75km flat TTs...

Interesting information. When did it become common for there to be specific specialised TT bikes rather than the road bike?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I had never looked into Anquetil's TTs properly until recently...

I think on balance he is the best.

9x Grand prix des nations wins when it was basically the World TT Champs. Hinault also won 5x...

1965 Chrono? Anquentil averaged 47km an hour... for 74km...

he had a 48km average for a 50km TT in the middle of the TDF one year.

So often 1.5-2km an hour faster than anyone else. You could have probably dropped 1960-1966 Anquetil into a TT in 1985 on the same equipment he had back then and he still wins most TTs. (basically anytime until aero-bars came in and made everyone 3km/h faster overnight in a mid-distance TT)

In just the last ~7-8 years guys have got 1.5-2km an hour faster on flat mid-distance TTs... from say 52km/h to 54km/h... how much is the difference to a late 50s/early 60s bike without TT bars!

Would be fascinated to see the speed that top TTers now hold with the same equipment he had... wouldnt be "that" hard to find out.

The maths says that Anquetil even with a 1960s bike, even if you just gave him aerobars with no other upgrade to his 1960s bike (clips, carbon frame, electronic gears, better rolling resistance), would have been able to do ~50-51km/h on ~50-75km flat TTs...

Monsieur Chrono.

Remco could get there, but more titles are needed imo.

 

[red_flanders]

I had never looked into Anquetil's TTs properly until recently...

I think on balance he is the best.

9x Grand prix des nations wins when it was basically the World TT Champs. Hinault also won 5x...

1965 Chrono? Anquentil averaged 47km an hour... for 74km...

he had a 48km average for a 50km TT in the middle of the TDF one year.

So often 1.5-2km an hour faster than anyone else. You could have probably dropped 1960-1966 Anquetil into a TT in 1985 on the same equipment he had back then and he still wins most TTs. (basically anytime until aero-bars came in and made everyone 3km/h faster overnight in a mid-distance TT)

In just the last ~7-8 years guys have got 1.5-2km an hour faster on flat mid-distance TTs... from say 52km/h to 54km/h... how much is the difference to a late 50s/early 60s bike without TT bars!

Would be fascinated to see the speed that top TTers now hold with the same equipment he had... wouldnt be "that" hard to find out.

The maths says that Anquetil even with a 1960s bike, even if you just gave him aerobars with no other upgrade to his 1960s bike (clips, carbon frame, electronic gears, better rolling resistance), would have been able to do ~50-51km/h on ~50-75km flat TTs...

Nice to see recency bias not affecting everyone. Great post.

 

[Penninepeddler]

Interesting information. When did it become common for there to be specific specialised TT bikes rather than the road bike?

From what I understand...

Disc wheels started in the mid 80s, and I think the first aerobikes were designed for the 1984 Olympics on track.

Later 80s were when tri bars were first used, famously by LeMond.

After that was when the whole TT specialist bikes and "aero" components kicked off in a short time frame. Bike design started to get crazy in early 90s and aero was being pushed like mad and whole TT setups were different down to frames.

Might be off by a year or a few but I *think* that has some basis in reality at least.