Everlasting confusion about Alpe d' Huez climbing record

[Dr. Juice]

I didn't find an appropiate thread so I open this one. Many sites cite 37'35 minutes as the record for this climb. From 1999 onwards times are all accurate because they took the time automatically after the corner where the climb starts - 13.8 km from the finish (house on the left).
But in 1994, 1995 and 1997 it was taken 14.454 km from the finish. Why do many sites don't do a little research. Is it that difficult?? In this video from 1997, we can see the corner 13.8 km from the finish :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NcCsHWblWw

Min 0:13 peleton at the exit of the corner, min 0:16 the house appears on the left. The climb starts either where the house on the left is or directly on the exit of the corner ( 3 seconds difference) .
37:06 Pantani crossing the line. So 36'50 ( also cited) or 36'53 (cited by climbing records) is accurate. Unfortunately in the video of 1995 (fastest ascent) the camera is on the breakaway when the peleton starts the climb. It goes back on the peleton a minute later or so.

But is it that difficult to go into the archives - they know where the time for the climb starts nowadays - and adjust it once and for good? It also helps in the judgement of the of the riders ...for example that 1997 Ullrich climbed as fast or faster than Lance and that Lance would have seen the best Pantani disappearing into the dust.

It's just a matter of a little research.

 

[Dr. Juice]

I just watched the video of 1997 and that of 2001 side by side.
I'm confused.

They always said Lance's time was 38:01.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPUxkx_Rhbs

In that video (uncut) Lance arrives at 40:12. If he has done 38:01 min then...he should be at the corner where the climb starts at a little over 2 min into the video. Well, the peleton does a left hander at a little over 2 min. But that seems like the penultimate corner before the climb.

Scroll to 4:10 ...peleton does a left hander where there is a 14 km mark ...seems like the corner which leads into the climb. That would make his time 36 minutes flat. Seems unreal?? There was no publicity. Must have been a cut?

To compare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NcCsHWblWw

That's 1997. Peleton does the last corner at the beginning of the video and well...nothing new here...a bit under 37 minutes.

Surely I'm confused? I like numbers and historical data. I don't like it when things seem unclear. Someone able to help me?
I reckon it must be a couple min publicity cut out somewhere. Did not watch the whole video. Times are taken automatically since 99 if I remember correctly.

 

[jens_attacks]

of course there is a cut . if you want to verify time ascents on old videos, you have to check on at least two different broadcasts in order to be sure. for example,it's because of an edited WCP video that everyone talks about furlan 1994 having the poggio record in 5'21'' lol

 

[Netserk]

Speaking of Alpe, jens when do you think we'll see a sub-38' time again? Do you think either Froome or Contador would be able to do it if in best possible shape?

 

[jens_attacks]

Speaking of Alpe, jens when do you think we'll see a sub-38' time again? Do you think either Froome or Contador would be able to do it if in best possible shape?

1. in a mountain time trial: both froome and contador should be able to do it. probably aru, nairo,nibali at their best could do it too. richie porte i'd guess also

2.in an unipublic stage: full gas from the bottom with the uk postal at its best again, both

3.in a multi mountains stage: only alberto contador for sure.

 

[Netserk]

Thanks. I mean at some point they will be able to do better than Lance, but the question is when that is. As for 1,2 or 3, only 3 will be comparable to 2001.

 

[Dr. Juice]

of course there is a cut . if you want to verify time ascents on old videos, you have to check on at least two different broadcasts in order to be sure. for example,it's because of an edited WCP video that everyone talks about furlan 1994 having the poggio record in 5'21'' lol

Silly me...there are 2 publicity cuts which I saw now (5 or 10 seconds before the 19 min mark and 26:xx min into the video. First km are without cuts then the last 5,5 - 6 km are uncut.
Interestingly it's head to head in the first 3 km.

Last 5 km: Pantani Armstrong

5-4 km 2:31 2:55

4-3 km 3:22 3:14

3-2 km 2:54 2:54

2-1 km 2:10 1:50

1-0 km 1:39 1:35

Lance gained back 8 seconds there (his overall time 1:11 min slower)
I'd like to know the average speed of that middle part of Marco when he started dropping Ullrich . 1:03 minutes faster than sprinting Lance (who gained 1:30 min on Ullrich during that time) within ~ 6 km.


Back to Alpe in this time and age...I agree that 38 minutes in a MTT (or a unipublic stage with a furious first km) is within the capabilites of Contador and maybe Froome (6.4 W/kg).
This year there is the Galibier before...however the stage is short. I expect something between 38:30 and 39 minutes for the winner if there is no looking-around and a solid pace from the bottom.

 

[TShame]

This is kind of apples and oranges. Most of the ascents have been during road races and only a few have been the specific climb as a time trial.

I always thought Lance touted himself as having the record but does that really matter anymore? Neither is any time by Pantani or other record holders.

Any of the top climbers, if rested, and putting in an all-out attack, could probably hit the record. However, riding for 100 k and doing so after a week or two of pro level racing, everything is a bit compromised.