Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

I don't believe sponsors have much say in this. In addition sponsors do want yellow. As for the inner team tensions. I guess it is what it is. The team will spend (substantial) part of resources on van Aert. Will it pay back? In term of the chase for green and yellow.

Could be, likely not.

I guess they can make a deal. If we blow up the race on cobbles. Then you are green for green. Otherwise yellow takes priority over green.

Or maybe they plan to race like on TDF 2020. For yellow likely that is not the best approach. From Roglič point of view the biggest issue i guess is he will be much more exposed to abuse from other teams. Compared to the team working for him fully. And obviously having a less fresh team. Working for two goals does increase fatigue. Pogačar will hence likely have an easier chance to gain that 2 minutes in a solo attack. Compared to JV being (constantly) fresh enough to try to stop him.

All in all they are walking on a thin ice. If they pull it off. Then they will likely end up being legends. If they blew it then the approach will likely go down in the history as being a more ridiculous one.

I guess lets wait and see. Not much else we can do about it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I mean lets win the yellow by going for green. At minimum such strategy is debatable. Contrary to saying we have a champion capable of winning yellow and the team to back him up. Lets just do that.

But i know it's life. It needs to be complicated. That is just how life is.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Pogacar has proven that he‘s unbeatable in the TdF. So Primoz is racing for second place.

Why not support Wout in his battle for Green? Second place in GC, Green Jersey and 3 stage wins would make Jumbo‘s Tour a success in 2022.

 

[tobydawq]

Pogacar has proven that he‘s unbeatable in the TdF. So Primoz is racing for second place.

Why not support Wout in his battle for Green? Second place in GC, Green Jersey and 3 stage wins would make Jumbo‘s Tour a success in 2022.

How has that been proven?

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

How has that been proven?

2 starts and 2 victories - and still improving...

 

[bNator]

Pogacar has proven that he‘s unbeatable in the TdF. So Primoz is racing for second place.

Why not support Wout in his battle for Green? Second place in GC, Green Jersey and 3 stage wins would make Jumbo‘s Tour a success in 2022.

Great logic. But why stop here? Let’s just disband GC competition and give next 10 TDF yellow jerseys to Pogacar. He doesn’t even need to show up… And let’s introduce a new jersey - orange for instance. The battle for second place.…

 

[RedheadDane]

Pogacar has proven that he‘s unbeatable in the TdF. So Primoz is racing for second place.

You know, for someone who calls yourself "Skijumper Roglic fan", you don't have a whole lot of faith in the guy. Not like you're calling yourself "Unicyclist Pogacar fan."

 

[tobydawq]

2 starts and 2 victories - and still improving...

Lol. And I suppose Roglic had an uninterrupted, incident-free race this year.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Well, I was so disappointed after Primoz‘ Tours 2020/21, that I lost all hope he could win the Tour one day... :-(

 

[bNator]

Another one with the Stockholm syndrome

You guys need some football/hooligan fans mentality. Roglic will wipe the floor with Pogacar next year just as he would have done this year had Sonny not been paid to take him out because he was so good no one stood a chance against him…

 

[tobydawq]

Another one with the Stockholm syndrome

You guys need some football/hooligan fans mentality. Roglic will wipe the floor with Pogacar next year just as he would have done this year had Sonny not been paid to take him out because he was so good no one stood a chance against him…

Maybe a bit too much in the other direction but I like the spirit!

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Another one with the Stockholm syndrome

You guys need some football/hooligan fans mentality. Roglic will wipe the floor with Pogacar next year just as he would have done this year had Sonny not been paid to take him out because he was so good no one stood a chance against him…

Good point.

Colbrelli‘s was actually my theory also...:

UAE sheikh in June 2021: „Bahrain sheikh, you know you owe me money! You owe me five million Dollars, and you know what? You will make Roglic lose the TdF 2021!“

Bahrain sheikh: „What do you expect me to do?“

UAE sheikh: „You speak to one of your heavier riders. He shall make Roglic crash out of the TdF.“

Bahrain sheikh: „OK, I think that job suits Colbrelli. I can guarantee you, by the evening of stage # 3, Roglic will be so badly injured that he has no chance to even reach Paris.“

UAE sheikh: „Great. You know, I count on you.“

 

[Rackham]

It looks like there was a Roglification of Colbrelli & Pog in the Monaco charity race earlier today (from Pogacar's insta):

 

[Eeslliw]

It looks like there was a Roglification of Colbrelli & Pog in the Monaco charity race earlier today (from Pogacar's insta):

No gifts! Even in charity events

 

[MTV]

But it does look bad.

Add the Vingegaard situation on top (i.e. a rider who finishes 2d in the Tour can certainly aspire towards a far more "protected" status the following year) & we see a quasi Ineos situation with too many chiefs & not enough Indians. It makes winning yellow all the more difficult if too many in the team have their own personal ambition.

In other news, I'm also wondering how this charity criterium is going (i.e. reportedly scheduled today):

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/monacos-cycling-glitterati-set-to-take-part-in-charity-criterium/

I can't find much info on it.

Primož was first, then Pogačar and Colbrelli. I think he was running away from Colbrelli.

 

[MTV]

Well, I was so disappointed after Primoz‘ Tours 2020/21, that I lost all hope he could win the Tour one day... :-(

It is your fault - he was a skijumper but now he is a cyclist - the cyclist.
But here you are, still fan of skijumper.
Oh, not really... you jumped to next one.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Skijumper Roglic fan

IMHO it won't hurt Pogačar legacy all that much. Being beaten by a ski jumper on the Tour. Now if we would be talking about any other ski jumper. Then obviously it could look bad. Maybe one of the Prevc brothers (or sister). That could still be acceptable. Up to a point. Beyond that it would likely look bad. I agree with that. I would go further and say that if Pogačar would get beaten. In the next lets say 3 seasons on the Tour. He likely would prefer for the ski jumper to do it. As hugging a complete stranger is usually less desirable then to hug a close friend.

As for helping van Aert with green. It goes without saying. That is just who Roglič is. Don't let the Gino incident fool you. Roglič is a gifter. Pogačar on TDF 2020, van Aert on that beer race in 2021 ... As once the bag is full enough some people just tend to share. It keeps them hungry for more.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It looks like there was a Roglification of Colbrelli & Pog in the Monaco charity race earlier today (from Pogacar's insta):

He didn't? Did he?

P.S. It's settled then, regarding Sonny.

 

[CyclistAbi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464960384255905796

Hard to say from this angle but was Sonny distanced or dropped? From the motorcycle speed and acceleration point of view i would say Primož was putting on some serious pressure. Too bad they didn't wait with Vélo d'Or for a bit longer.

 

[Red Rick]

The terrain is favorable to Van Aert this time, but there are lots of points up for grabs in the flat sprint finishes / intermediate sprints. He gets boxed in sometimes. He's right that he needs support if he wants to go for green.


It's not just about results. Van Aert is more important to the sponsor.

If Van Aert can win green on his own then so be it, but bringing domestiques specifically to help win green when you wanna win the Tour is ridiculous. Sagan didn't get a lead out train in a team with a post prime Contador. He should easily be able to win on his own on the parcours of next year and the only problem with that one should be that he'd compete with Roglic for bonifications.

 

[Red Rick]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464960384255905796

Hard to say from this angle but was Sonny distanced or dropped? From the motorcycle speed and acceleration point of view i would say Primož was putting on some serious pressure. Too bad they didn't wait with Vélo d'Or for a bit longer.

It's official. Criteriums aren't rigged

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

If Van Aert can win green on his own then so be it, but bringing domestiques specifically to help win green when you wanna win the Tour is ridiculous. Sagan didn't get a lead out train in a team with a post prime Contador. He should easily be able to win on his own on the parcours of next year and the only problem with that one should be that he'd compete with Roglic for bonifications.

I agree, but IMO the sponsor thinks otherwise. I'm talking what can reasonably be expected. Roglic doesn't have the GT results of Contador, either. And isn't likely to win, given Pog's dominance and age. So it's both of those things. Contador had 6 wins in the 2 biggest GTs. Roglic has had at least 3 failed attempts. Also because he's much more likely to crash hard than Pog (2020 Dauphine, 2021 Tour - twice)

I agree that they should give it another go, however.

 

[Red Rick]

I agree, but IMO the sponsor thinks otherwise. I'm talking what can reasonably be expected. Roglic doesn't have the GT results of Contador, either. And isn't likely to win, given Pog's dominance and age. So it's both of those things. Contador had 6 wins in the 2 biggest GTs. Roglic has had at least 3 failed attempts. Also because he's much more likely to crash hard than Pog (2020 Dauphine, 2021 Tour - twice)

I agree that they should give it another go, however.

They only raced together in 2015 and 2016 IIRC. In the 2015 Tour he was a dead man riding after the Giro anyway, and in 2016 he was a big underdog.

IMO Roglic' record vs Pogacar is better than Contadors vs Froome in that period.

 

[Netserk]

Roglic doesn't have the GT results of Contador, either.

How relevant was Contador three Tour wins in 2016? In the 1-4 seasons before, Roglic has a better GT (and stage race) record than Contador.

 

[BlueRoads]

I suppose an important question is how do you approach the duel with Pogacar? Do you simply let UAE do the work because they are the bigger favourites, and then rely on Roglic just being better than Pogacar (in the time trials and the uphill sprints)? Or do you think you're the physical underdog who needs to race both aggressively and smart as a team to force situations where Pogacar is pressured? For instance with Vingegaard as a co-leader? I think you need to look at the stages very closely and decide what can be done, and then you can make a plan.
Maybe there are stages where you can try to force a selection in the crosswinds for instance, which benefits both van Aert for the intermediate and Roglic for the GC... or something like that. In any case with that monster time trial potential in their team I think they should especially make use of that. Don't bring Affini to the Giro just because he's Italian... But damn, what about Dumoulin? He would be a super good helper on this route... but he doesn't want to be a helper... obviously you either have to bring him as a co-leader... or not at all.

Of course a yellow jersey is more important than a green one, but on the other hand many stages and green with Wout if you go for it (~80%?) seem more likely than yellow with Roglic (like, 30%?)

Then you should probably have a lot of backup plans and be able to improvise as the cobble stage alone could easily lead to a specific situation.

I think at this point in the year you can only have a rough plan anyway, who knows what will happen until then, who will be ill, who will have a break-out year...

Roglic
Vingegaard
van Aert
Teunissen
Dennis
Affini
Kuss
Foss (Dumoulin)
?

I still wonder whether van Aert says these things publically because it's pretty much decided that will happen/ they have promised him... or because they are hesitating to give him support and he wants to pressure them.